who sells isolators for second (music) battery

[dean_mootoo]

Can someone tell me who sells isolators for adding a second battery for music, in central.

[nervewrecker]

donno bout central but triple r sells them in san fernando.

[3stagevtec]

Triple R on Cipero St..

[noyztoyz]

Who recommended u buy that and why?

[dean_mootoo]

Based on my knowledge i think it is necessary because of the different chemistry of the starting battery(lead acid) and music battery(deep cycle) so that one dont draw current from the other in case of voltage difference due to the different discharge characterists of each. Also, it ensures that your starting battery is not drained whilst playing when parked, if engine is not running.

But if you have a dfferent view do share.

[black start]

it also protects one battery being damaged from the other in case the one of the battery fails in the circuit.

[3stagevtec]

Based on my knowledge i think it is necessary because of the different chemistry of the starting battery(lead acid) and music battery(deep cycle) so that one dont draw current from the other in case of voltage difference due to the different discharge characterists of each. Also, it ensures that your starting battery is not drained whilst playing when parked, if engine is not running.

But if you have a dfferent view do share.

x2..

it also protects one battery being damaged from the other in case the one of the battery fails in the circuit.

The Toyota Hilux Surf comes factory with two batteries, but there is no isolator in the system. I was told that whenever one battery dies, it usually kills the other one.

[southside connections]

very nice to see people with an understanding of what an isolater is used for

props op

[noyztoyz]

Based on my knowledge i think it is necessary because of the different chemistry of the starting battery(lead acid) and music battery(deep cycle) so that one dont draw current from the other in case of voltage difference due to the different discharge characterists of each. Also, it ensures that your starting battery is not drained whilst playing when parked, if engine is not running.

But if you have a dfferent view do share.

it is well known that when you mix a water battery and a music battery there is a current draw from the music battery. But has the current draw ever been quantified? It has not.

It is in my opinion that for a vehicle that is used every day or at least every other day, there is no need for the isolator, because the current draw from the music battery is so small over and the time period above, that when the vehicle is idled for as little as 2-3 minutes all current loss from the music battery is fully replaced by the alternator.

Regarding preventing running down of the starter battery - when you play music with your vehicle off - the battery reserve is what decides how long you could play for. When you put an isolator, the battery reserve is only that of the music battery - it is less - so less time you could play for.
Simple use of a voltmeter - looking at your voltage when you are playing - could prevent difficulty starting back the vehicle from low batteries - when you see your voltage approaching 11.5-11.8 volts, this is good time to start your vehicle to recharge.

Also, use of an isolator can be considered as causing under-use of a battery by the audio system. A battery is a heavy current supply
current supplies come in most handy at times of most sustained current draw - when your music is playing - and with use of an isolator, this heavy current supply is barely used - causing the person to have to add more weight on the vehicle (in more/music batteries) to compensate for the front battery being underused.

Regarding a shorting battery, proper use of a voltmeter could help you tell the minute this happens.
And i have never seen a short circuit battery in my life, so once again theory states that batteries can short circuit and affect other batteries in parallel, but is there figures to show what percentage of batteries do short circuit? Do you think it is high enough to justify widespread use of isolators? No its not, the number is extremely low.

These are my thoughts on isolators.
Educated arguments about it are welcome

[tdavies]

noyztoyz

need some advice bro.....
sorry to hijack thread

i have a b-14 to hook up music 2
amps are Rockford T-15001Bd and T600-4

now the battery in front needs to change.
i have 2 yellow tops already at home

should i buy a lead acid again for the front
or should i wire the 2 optimas to the back
and leave no battery at the front.

note that the car is used to go to pos and back every day
which is why i was considering putting both optimas to the trunk area. (heat nah)

some people told me to get a red top optima for the front
but i know that both batteries should be of the same type.
which is why i was considering the 2 yellow tops to the back
which would be used for starting also.


Thanks for the input.

[nervewrecker]

noyztoyz, you does read what you does be saying before you hit the submit button?

Current draw occurs across the whole bank, the isolator separates the rest of the bank for the single battery up front (or wherever it is) from the rest of the bank (current draw wise) so while they being drained the starting battery reserve remains untouched.

iirc starting battery and batteries specially made for car audio are also a bit different. Cant remember if its something with the thickness of the plates but iirc music batteries can discharge faster than starting batteries and for music you need a bank that can feed your amps the juice as fast as it call for it or suffer voltage drop. iirc they can also stand more discharge and recharge cycles per lifetime than a normal starting battery.

Thats a +1 for the use of an isolator if you ask me.

+2 will be if you are a park and pound / river lime guy.

That allowing the voltage to drop while monitoring the voltage you speak of there, that decreases the life of the battery btw.

In the case of a river lime / park and play vehicle obviously its not going to be rocking 2 batteries, it must have a helluva bank to support a massive current draw so isolating the single small starter battery up front deprives the entire system of what? How much you think its derived of? If its a large fraction of the total reserve then that vehicle might want to consider adding more batteries to the bank. 1 battery up front (sized according to space constraints in the engine bay) set apart from the rest of the bank by an entire length of cable aint going to do much when the amps calling for the current.

Weight, you seriously going to talk about weight here? In a system with multiple batteries, multiple subs and boxes what percentage of that overall added weight you think the isolator going to contribute to?

Jesus christ himself can descend from the heavens with his personal golden voltmeter and install it for you but its not going to do you any good the second a short circuit occurs. Within the time the mishap occurs to when you are able to access it, what exactly you going to do?
You have multiple batteries and a network of power cables that is not visible to the eye, the time you are going to take to find the problem, assess it and take action a fire may have already started. Prevention is better than cure, fusing of all connections and protection of all cables is the best way to go. Should a short circuit occur, the fuse blows and then you look to diagnose and repair.

[noyztoyz]

must not ask me if i know what i duz be talking about
heres why

from your statements above, batteries do short circuit, and it can cause serious damage and something about jesus christ.
so you justify putting an isolator for the battery infront.
There are countless men in this world running multiple batteries in the rear of their vehicles.
So there equal chance one of the batteries in the back may short.
so therefore each battery should have an isolator

Show me one man who running 10 battery and 10 isolator or 6 batteries and 6 isolators or 30 batteries and 30 isolators and this argument is yours, you win

or lemme guess only batteries in the front of a vehicle do "short" right?

[noyztoyz]

noyztoyz

need some advice bro.....
sorry to hijack thread

i have a b-14 to hook up music 2
amps are Rockford T-15001Bd and T600-4

now the battery in front needs to change.
i have 2 yellow tops already at home

should i buy a lead acid again for the front
or should i wire the 2 optimas to the back
and leave no battery at the front.

note that the car is used to go to pos and back every day
which is why i was considering putting both optimas to the trunk area. (heat nah)

some people told me to get a red top optima for the front
but i know that both batteries should be of the same type.
which is why i was considering the 2 yellow tops to the back
which would be used for starting also.


Thanks for the input.

u cud put a lead acid infront,
or you could put an optima infront,
or you cud put non infront once you have zero g wire from front to back

the best thing is another optima, becasue even though you have 2 batteries in the back, the ah total is still low and u gonna need more curretn to crank out them 2 amps

[nervewrecker]

Sigh, you read what I typed and what you replied?

Why am I even bothering?

[3stagevtec]

Based on my knowledge i think it is necessary because of the different chemistry of the starting battery(lead acid) and music battery(deep cycle) so that one dont draw current from the other in case of voltage difference due to the different discharge characterists of each. Also, it ensures that your starting battery is not drained whilst playing when parked, if engine is not running.

But if you have a dfferent view do share.

it is well known that when you mix a water battery and a music battery there is a current draw from the music battery. But has the current draw ever been quantified? It has not.

It is in my opinion that for a vehicle that is used every day or at least every other day, there is no need for the isolator, because the current draw from the music battery is so small over and the time period above, that when the vehicle is idled for as little as 2-3 minutes all current loss from the music battery is fully replaced by the alternator.

Regarding preventing running down of the starter battery - when you play music with your vehicle off - the battery reserve is what decides how long you could play for. When you put an isolator, the battery reserve is only that of the music battery - it is less - so less time you could play for.
Simple use of a voltmeter - looking at your voltage when you are playing - could prevent difficulty starting back the vehicle from low batteries - when you see your voltage approaching 11.5-11.8 volts, this is good time to start your vehicle to recharge.

Also, use of an isolator can be considered as causing under-use of a battery by the audio system. A battery is a heavy current supply
current supplies come in most handy at times of most sustained current draw - when your music is playing - and with use of an isolator, this heavy current supply is barely used - causing the person to have to add more weight on the vehicle (in more/music batteries) to compensate for the front battery being underused.

Regarding a shorting battery, proper use of a voltmeter could help you tell the minute this happens.
And i have never seen a short circuit battery in my life, so once again theory states that batteries can short circuit and affect other batteries in parallel, but is there figures to show what percentage of batteries do short circuit? Do you think it is high enough to justify widespread use of isolators? No its not, the number is extremely low.

These are my thoughts on isolators.
Educated arguments about it are welcome

What you mean by "a shorting battery"? As in a battery itself short circuiting? That possible?

If you have one battery that sits at 13.0V tied in parallel with another battery that sits at 12.5V, there will be current flow between the two batteries due to the potential difference. IMO over time, this will add unnecessary wear to the 13.0V battery and could shorten its life. That is in theory of course, but highly plausible.

The ammeters I have are not sensitive enough to measure >1A range, but it would have been cool to measure what that current flow between different batteries would be.

My recommendation is generally, if you are using two similar batteries, you can get away without the isolator. If running different batteries, it won't hurt to have it and could benefit in the long run.

and..

The Toyota Hilux Surf comes factory with two batteries, but there is no isolator in the system. I was told that whenever one battery dies, it usually kills the other one.

[noyztoyz]

I agree somewhat 3stage. I have seen some water batteries coming down to there end start settling at lower voltages and yes this would cause a draw on the other.
Simple experiment to do. Will need a small draw ammeter however because I would like to see this quantified so we could lend reference as it hasn't been done (afaik)

[noyztoyz]

Shorting? I've never seen a battery short in my life. But from the above posts, others did. So? Idk

[SR]

people seem to forget simple saftey measures when installing batteries between front and back of the vehicle

it has always been recomended that a fuse be installed max 18" from the front battery/alt on the main cable leading down to the batteries in the back and another fuse installed max 18" from the battery bank in the back on the main cable coming from the front

while everytime you install a fuse holder there will also be a miniscule drop in voltage this is only critical in systems for spl and are not daily driven vehicles

an isolator is used to separate the main battery for the vehicle from the battery bank for the system
and not for every battery as suggested in a post above

this is only required when the same alternator is being used
in all big systems where there are battery banks the vehicles electrical system is usually isloated and a separate alternator/alternators are used for the audio electrical

locally i have seen most people just replacing the stock alt with an aftermarket and charging the oem lead acid or replacment lead acid which is connected in parallel with aftermarket dry cell batteries with no isolator or fused protection

the risk here is entirely up to the owner as many isntallers dont even know the risk factor with doing this

different types of batteries in parallel charge at different rates and an alternator cannot tell the difference and will stop charging when the strongest battery is charged as the alt will only see one voltage and not each batteries individual voltage

this is basic electronic theory and anyone with a proper background in electronics will understand this

for anyone who wants more explanations
try to understand this link for kirchoff's law for votlages in parallel

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_6/2.html

[SQ Audio]

Use the Isolator. Its the correct thing to do.

[black start]

ah gone back to physics class there pal. remembered/learnt something.

[greenlime100]

hmph.... nice discussion there.. good read,
and Ive done a van with a battery isolator, this van was a service van using the extra battery for simple work light, inverter etc.

And even though some may argue there is no need for it or that is wasting money, I prefer be on the safe side an put the extra money.

Just my 2 cents and my pov

[Kaizen Autosound]

We have 200amp and 100amp isolators in stock.

[greenlime100]

^^ whats your price on the 100amp ?

[nervewrecker]

What brand for that matter

[greenlime100]

yupp need some specs there Kaizen