Chaguanas SSS running on 30th August, Fire works for so....

[Mini]

... with regards to the VK event... that wasn't a rally... nor was it put on by the TTRC, but rather TTRC members. The rules governing that event were solely for that event.

But I agree with what djaggs pointed out... there seems to be void for the enthusiast between solodex and all out racing.

[sio]

SR you keep coming back to the same point. (the point i was trying to make is why make the tarmac event soley for rally cars when there are dex cars that can compete in a tarmac event)

And I have one word for all of you SAFETY.

[SR]

what speeds are expected in a tarmac event

given the limitations of lets use for an example the course used for sss in chaguanas

then compare to safety requirments for thos speeds and conditions

what safety rules now apply that will eliminate a car setup for dex say from the esp class and up

[fiveforward]

hmmmm here is a solution, why doesn't Solodex together with the assistance of rally club just hold a street legal event. Rally already has the history, experience and set the precedence and dex have the competitors.

Both disciplines are pretty close and have no "bad blood" unlike some other organizations. And I believe that the gap will have been filled by an active Circuit Association but since we have circuit men posing as drags racers and fighting for power; there is no representation; rally and dex are the two closest disciplines to fill the void.

Like SR said not everybody is a diehard rally man and MOST racers in Trinidad are Recreational racers. But the rally guys are right Rally is Rally - they have their rules and I don't think they should break them to accommodate. However, they CAN lend the expertise to DEX to pull of such an event.


BTW pardon the emotional reply before - but this whole thing is a bit frustrating and i can't stand people saying something CAN'T happen because of this and that when it could if we could only try.

[Mini]

hmmmm here is a solution, why doesn't Solodex together with the assistance of rally club just hold a street legal event. Rally already has the history, experience and set the precedence and dex have the competitors.

Both disciplines are pretty close and have no "bad blood" unlike some other organizations. And I believe that the gap will have been filled by an active Circuit Association but since we have circuit men posing as drags racers and fighting for power; there is no representation; rally and dex are the two closest disciplines to fill the void.

Like SR said not everybody is a diehard rally man and MOST racers in Trinidad are Recreational racers. But the rally guys are right Rally is Rally - they have their rules and I don't think they should break them to accommodate. However, they CAN lend the expertise to DEX to pull of such an event.


BTW pardon the emotional reply before - but this whole thing is a bit frustrating and i can't stand people saying something CAN'T happen because of this and that when it could if we could only try.

I think that is a middle ground that can happen...

But it's up to the management of both clubs to make it happen... and administer it... also up to powers that be (chaguanas borough, TTPS, etc.) who make it happen.

Which brings up another point... the streets were closed for 3 or 4 hours. We had to finish promptly at 6PM. Including set up... how many competitive runs (i.e. how many cars) can we accommodate in that time. Remember it's not like ARC or a gravel stage where you can run all day... have breaks for lunch etc. Also there must be costs involved having all that police, barriers, etc. there. Just some thoughts to consider in the planning

[djaggs]

I personally didnt like the chaguanas stage. It can be dangerous. Parts of the road too narrow and drains and culverts present their own dilemmas.

I can think of a better road in chaguanas. No buildings, its wide, smooth. The new piece of road that brings you back out onto the hwy from the eastern side of the HWY. It has a nice roundabout that can take you back up to make a lap, its easy to block off because all traffic can be routed thru chaguanas main road. No pedestrian traffic to worry about. No drains no culverts. Very fast. Its wide enough in some places to use cones to slow down cars.

Good for a time trial kinda race.

[Mini]

I personally didnt like the chaguanas stage. It can be dangerous. Parts of the road too narrow and drains and culverts present their own dilemmas.

which is precisely why we mandate safety in the cars...

so wait... lemme get this straight... allyuh make noise to take part in our events, want to compete in a discipline that your cars not set up for, want us to basically compromise our rules, and NOW want to tell us where to have the events? allyuh not easy nah.

[djaggs]

This is an advert from Gurston Downs Hillclimb club...

Try your hand at Speed Hillclimbing
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But you can actually start hillclimbing in a road car, and there are generally three opportunities each year to start in the best possible way - with a day at the Gurston Down Hillclimb Drivers School. The dates for 2008 (all on Tuesdays) are 13th May, 03rd June and 15th July.

Hillclimbing is all about driving up narrow windy roads, with timing at competition events done electronically, and there are classes for all types of cars. But because the roads are private, and closed to traffic of course, the environment is a safe one in which to drive as fast as you feel you can.

To make your entry into this fun branch of motorsport as easy as possible, at the Gurston Down Hillclimb Drivers School you receive classroom tuition on safety and how to drive the course from experienced, licensed instructors before you take to the hill in your car. And your every-day road-car is ideal for the job, providing it is roadworthy and has a current MoT certificate if appropriate. It's a great day out, and an adenalin-induced grin is guaranteed! All pupils need to have a minimum age of 18 years, and either hold a full driving licence (not a provisional) or hold an MSA competition licence.

You see, motor racing can be available for your average street car. Different classes for different types of cars. There is no exclusivity and the safety issue is handled by choosing the venue carefully. Although the full race cars are required to have cages.

If anyone interested, lets talk.

[djaggs]

I personally didnt like the chaguanas stage. It can be dangerous. Parts of the road too narrow and drains and culverts present their own dilemmas.

which is precisely why we mandate safety in the cars...

so wait... lemme get this straight... allyuh make noise to take part in our events, want to compete in a discipline that your cars not set up for, want us to basically compromise our rules, and NOW want to tell us where to have the events? allyuh not easy nah.

I actually was making reference to starting something completely new.
One of the reasons I said its was dangerous with reference to buildings, I was marshalling in front the community center which was filled people clamouring to get out. We do not have any legal right to detain anybody and hold them against their will so these people wanted to get out of the building by force if necessary. This is a very very dangerous situation, and why i dont really understand the choice of this location for a high speed stage. There must have been another reason for the choice, not safety. There was also the risk of property damage.

If a rallycar with all the proper safety equipment crashed into a building and damaged it, do you think you would have been able to stage another event?? Just a thought.

In a place like Monte Carlo where racing in the town is an old heritage the people understand the dos and donts, but in Trinidad its a different story.

And BTW, we didnt say we want to compete in a discpline our cars not set up for, because most DEX cars are set up for Tarmac, and Im sure we have a couple of guys who can hold their own against the rally drivers on Tarmac. We not interested in gravel. To list a few:

Ryan Pinheiro, Devi Nath, Clive Sugden (although technically speaking he is an ex circuit driver but he driving a street car), Amir Hosein, Ryan R. and you what what, we even have a couple of chicks who can hold their own, Karen and Geneveive (ah cyah spell too good) plus a few others.

If all yuh dont believe meh leh we set up the thing nah......

[Mini]

I actually was making reference to starting something completely new.

I know... but I couldn't resist throwing some picong yuh way

[djaggs]

Well picong back at you too....

Leh we do it...the DEX club waiting....

I betting that Genny cud beat a few rallydrivers

[De Bench]

Well picong back at you too....
Leh we do it...the DEX club waiting....
I betting that Genny cud beat a few rallydrivers

As I told Carl, get the heads of both clubs thinking of having it as a fund raiser & let's get it done.

in short, if it comes of, I IN !

[AutoSport]

“I was marshalling in front the community center which was filled people clamouring to get out. We do not have any legal right to detain anybody and hold them against their will so these people wanted to get out of the building by force if necessary.â€

[De Bench]

The first small step has been made. Let us all be involved in looking at every aspect of this and make every effort to aim for the sky.

Rawle, the problem here is that some people cannot understand what was done to make the event happen as well as the potential can only be realised over time.

No more crawling, time to sprint, that's the thinking.

There are many bugs to be worked out so the event can be better, better attended, better access, better crowd contro; etc....

I do believe this can turn into something viable and attractive to sponsors if managed correctly.
If we get more sponsors for the event, then we may get more time to run, there by allowing more cars to compete.

[horsepwrjunki]

question for u all though. what provisions for unlicenced or non road legal cars.. ie soem of the "bigger" circuit cars? also is this idea for a chagunas stage or included into a actual event so that all competitors have to run gravel first?.. oh and as i think of it.. the "other" cars limited to gravel tires or can run tarmac tires

[wagonrunner]

If we get more sponsors for the event, then we may get more time to run, there by allowing more cars to compete.

you may have it in the wrong order here.............jus saying.
more cars would encourage more sponsors, which would then give more time at future events, but again.............i am prone to being wrong.

[Mini]

If we get more sponsors for the event, then we may get more time to run, there by allowing more cars to compete.

you may have it in the wrong order here.............jus saying.
more cars would encourage more sponsors, which would then give more time at future events, but again.............i am prone to being wrong.

it's actually a cycle...

more cars, more crowd, more sponsors, bigger event, and then it goes back to more cars... it's like the chicken and egg

[djaggs]

You definitely need more marshals...since a few people were able to slip through our control. You also need marshals that know how to talk to the public. some people just werent listening to the marshals.

I mean to make sure that nothing bad happens and spoils everything.

[AutoSport]

Ok so we seem to have a consensus of doing more of these Events.

We know what we all want, a bigger better Event that would:
(a) satisfy the competitors
(b) who would satisfy the spectators
(c) who would then guarantee bigger better sponsorship.
(d) and of course also address safety and crowd issues.

In between here, all of the above commentators, who we know are keen to work with everyone else to achieve a, b, c and d, can continue to make positive constructive criticism.

I have already worked out getting more racing time within say a time period of 2:00pm till
7:00pm, that would allow for more competitors that would allow for more mileage for sponsors.

And the growth cycle continues….

junki, I say aim for the sky, but you gone pass the universe there man, but meliketheenthusiasm

[rcadiz]

Folks just a reminder. Chaguanas and other similar stages are NOT race tracks. They are not designed and never will be fit enough to be a race track. I know everyone's plight in the country with not having a place to race. But the Chaguanas stage was a street special (90% of the racing took place on proper suited rally stages).

My simple point here is let us not get carried away with trying to race everywhere. The aim is to get a proper race track so we don't have to substitute the nations roads.

We can come up with race courses on our roadways but i think a lot pf people are missing the immense logistical coordination that it takes just to have a 3 hour event. Trust me i have first hand knowledge of this.

This is not meant to discourage but really to be practical. We used the Chaguanas event as a crowd pleaser and and to hype up our sport. It is my personal view that trying to turn certain roads into championship race courses by our local standards is a lot more difficult than people may wish to admit. Everyone wants a place to race but lets not get too carried away.

[fiveforward]

Chaguanas event as a crowd pleaser and and to hype up our sport. It is my personal view that trying to turn certain roads into championship race courses by our local standards is a lot more difficult than people may wish to admit. Everyone wants a place to race but lets not get too carried away.

^^ no disrespect but i think we SHOULD get carried away. In many other countries there are road courses that double as circuit/ drag or drift tracks and these are documented legitimate events

Las Vegas Sunset Strip - Drag Racing
Streets of London England - F1
Streets of Long Beach Cali- Formula D
San Fernando, Trinidad - Circuit
Rally Barbados - almost 50%....okay maybe 40% (cuz i couldn't be EVERYWHERE) is on the nations roads
Rally Jamaica.........
and the list goes on

My thing is that whether a "track" is there or not - Street events provide a different level of excitement & intimacy that a "track" will NEVER provide and that's fact. Whilst your view of the special stage being a promo stunt for "RALLY" and it only accounted for 10% of the RT09 Event; the fact remains that you guys did do it and i didn't see you having n e objection when you ran the course - hell it seemed that you had a very good time.

I think sir, once again with all due respect YOU are missing the point. Whether or not we get a proper race track, street events will always be more fun and have more energy to it.

The problem with rally in Trinidad is that it's still a small thing with few cars; it isn't THAT mainstream; it isn't a grassroots sport and not much people can relate to it. Drags on the cross is have more people than a rally event.......(yes i can prove it)

You say immense logistical co-ordination, well that's only true because you guys don't have that much manpower; honestly you don't. Finding a way to get MORE people involved is simple, appeal to them on a level that they can understand and having street events, with "NORMAL" street cars can do that. In the VK event more people reacted to when Kerry drifted around the round about than when the rally/ circuit/ dex men did it.

Yes I know marketing VERY well.

And just to prove my point about manpower pool here; if Yancy Supra and Aaron R32 came to race there will be 500+ people coming to support each party that's 1000+ people. 10% of them will be more than willing to be marshals since they will now be directly involved with a hyped about car and a hyped about event.

if Ainsley Lochan and Barry Mc Kenzie came out to race, besides a pit crew, rally die hards, some bajans, and a few trinituner men. I know for a fact that you not pulling those kinda of figures. (And YES i can prove this as well)

Your simple point was "let us not get carried away with trying to race everywhere.", well technically; you rally guys do it, whether or not is cane road, through a village in Chaguanas or on the streets OF Chaguanas. And I know if given the opportunity you will race thru the streets of Port of Spain as well PROVIDING that everything is contained and safety is paramount for EVERYBODY (racers & spectators)

Whether it happens or not, i just want people to be OPEN MINDED to the idea that it is a good idea that need proper planning and a plenty elbow grease - but a good idea none the less.

But what do I know..................................

[horsepwrjunki]

but robbie.. the rds are a viable alternative to a track look at the number of international events that are held on public roads.. of course with co ordination that is unheard of in trinidad but we have the potential to do it.. imagine for 4 hrs the properly surfaced QPS becomes a track one sunday afternoon.. or.. the same chaguanas stage ... think about the potential from having TTRC stage such an event this year that if the discipline in not kept but improved upon.. then where can it reach?.. a gravel/tarmac event 2 maybe 3 days...

[rcadiz]

Look its obvious that people keep misunderstanding my points. So i am leaving this post alone. At the end of the day it seems that this is the deal:

- Rally doesn't attract the numbers as other motorsports
- Drags rule
- Rally drivers have an air of superiority
- The TTRC excludes and alienates
- The TTRC is a cocky bunch of people
- Rally is not grassroots and will never be as popular as drags on the cross

HMMMM....A little harsh eh? yeah thats exactly what i thought when i read it to.

The funny thing is the TTRC never had any unfair advantage handed to us by the authorities. Like other clubs still in existence we have tried and worked our asses off to get where we are. Are we really anywhere yet? who knows? But at the end of the day we try. Yes we realise that because of our sport we can race almost anywhere where we get a stretch of road, but like you say the price we pay for that is less viewership. So here's the catch 22 - drags and circuit attract 1,000,000x more crowd but have no where to race. Rally only attracts pit crews, family members, close friends and a handful of die hards (as seems to be the consensus) and thats only if Mckenzie and Lochan are racing. But we have 15-20 dedicated teams, a championship season and a foreseeable future. So what kill us for at least trying to keep a sport alive. Did it ever occur to any of you that your 'brilliant ideas' of the Stadium, the QPS and the Cross have been analyzed and for very good reason not done. Not because the potential has not been there. The fact is even if we did by a miracle pull off a section of the QPS (and don't bring the example of cycling for me which closes off only 2 lanes and allows vehicular traffic simultaneously) we would probably still be hung out to dry by the same people in this post for something else we did not do or someone we forgot to invite.

I am part of an executive and in my personal opinion it is really easy for people to come on this forum and talk a lot about how they would have done it and how much better it would have been etc etc etc. But where are you when we have our elections, our weekly (yes that's every week) meetings to try to plan and put on events. Sorry if i come across to blunt but i am tired of people getting on these posts and think that they have all the answers and know better. If that is the case come and do my job. I will happily step aside and let you take motorsport to higher heights. If it is the general opinion that the TTRC is not capable or 'doesn't have the manpower' to do it than why wait on us. Stop publicly criticizing us and come with constructive criticism instead - privately.

[De Bench]

Fiveforward, the events you have listed as Street Events; have you seen a any vehicle competeing in those events WITHOUT a roll cage ?

NO !!

Those are not grassroots or Clubman events, those are events for fully prepared professionally driven race cars.

The focus of this thread has gone totally askew.

The event that was hosted was a Trinidad & Tobago RALLY Club event.
It was a minor part fo the TTRC's 2 day event.

If anybody wants to compete in TTRC events, they need to do the following.

Join TTRC- Become a member.
Get a car that meets TTRC saftey requirements.
Pay your entry fee & Compete.

TTRC does not have any limitations on the type of car, 4wd, 2wd, FWD or RWD, as long as it's a car and it meets the club's rules you are racing.

As for as not being grassroots, Rawl Mahabir, Nissan March, I had a Corolla, Fawaz- Sunny, Shelford- Nissan B12 & B13, Barry Mc Kenzie, Charmant, Nissan Sentra, Erica & Mike- Toyota Corolla
You could not possibly want more grassroots than that ?

The problem with this is that NONE of you want to PUT a Roll cage in your car, you want to race in a stock car or HIGHLY modified car with no rollcage or any safety device for that matter
Wearing a helmet and a 2lb extingusher duct taped to your passenger seat is as far some of you are willing to go.
If this is your desire, then Solodex is exactly what you need to do, regardless of how good a driver you are or how fast your car is, you will not be competing in a High Speed rally without a cage, a proper cage and the necessary safety devices.

That is it.

I have been a member of TTRC for 12 years, TTRC host rally events, TTRC is NOT VK or any other body.
TTRC= TRINIDAD & TOBAGO RALLY CLUB.

If you guys really think that you can get the streets to Drag or Circuit, then you need to approach MATT, The Ministry of Sport etc....
Form your own club/organisation, formulate a plan and present it to the right organization- MATT.

While the exchange of ideas and visions are good, it's all being wasted here in the TTRC Forum.

Pool your collective Interlectual Resourses and present it to the right people.

[horsepwrjunki]

whoa.. i hope u dont think im misunderstanding u robbie.. u know all the pros an cons of the street events.. i dont think i can do it diff b/c i dont have th paticence that u have.. i have big issuses dealing with stupid ppl i cant beg an plead to get soem of the things done.. i dont think any one can say that the initative is not apreciated you cannot say that the preysal stage was a low turn out. an as u rember the chaguramus stages were like that... it is sad that we lost so many stages and the other tracks but no one can discount ttrc efforts to keep their sport alive a kicking .. ive just always been a firm beliver in this country's govt ppl who have the say are backward in the way they view motorsports. and sad to say it has alot to do wit the pplinvolved in the sport them selves.. personaly im alwyas willing to help but i cannot stand to see for example older and executive members of a club break writen an un writen rules jsut b/c no one will tel them other wise this shows a indiscipline that is prevalant through out the count... well look at where i end up.. n/m yes.. paddna as i told jakie, sio, julie etc. im always willing call me an see if i have the time.. how willing i am to cancel stuff to help out is always determined by how much BS i have to take to FREELY give my time.. for that i would rather not an take my "sprint" on my way home and get my jolies that way

[AutoSport]

^^^ So after catching my breath after trying to interpret what you trying to say in these trying times, hope we can all try to work together and try and move forward together, trying to make the different ideas work.

[fiveforward]

listen it's not my intension to offend n e one here, neith is t my goal to be a kutchur man. I personally would like to see an event of this style incorporate other disiciplines - that all. Whether it happens or not and how it happens is a logistic that can be worked over.

I am just saying something like this on a grander level to promote motorsport on the whole would be a nice ing to see......that's is it. Mr Cadiz as well as the contributors to this post accept my apologies as my ferver tend to get ahead of rational judgement at times.

cheers By the way good job on the event though, it was really cool, my mom actually liked it a lot.

[AutoSport]

^^^^ "cheers By the way good job on the event though, it was really cool, my mom actually liked it a lot."

Ah ha, now we know why you want another event - we will push just to satisfy your Mom!

[De Bench]

Ah ha, now we know why you want another event - we will push just to satisfy your Mom!

Ahem, Rawle, you ent find that sounding kinda................em...............well yuh know nah

[AutoSport]

^^^^ Strictly competition Sir, no offroad jaunts here