Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods
SR wrote:so basically its a mod to the structural integrity of the seat from how the manufacturer intended it for the vehicle?
thus in theory the interior of the vehicle is not stock and the mods have nothing to do with the installation of the equipment but the vehicle itself to improve how one "hears" the sound in the vehicle
would that be considered the same as if the dash was completely rebuilt ?
would that be allowed in amateur?
somthing to think about
thus in theory the interior of the vehicle is not stock and the mods have nothing to do with the installation of the equipment but the vehicle itself to improve how one "hears" the sound in the vehicle
if the vehicle is presented to the sound judge and in sound sound judges opininion the seat is too far back
the competitor can be asked to show ability to drive the vehicle in its presented state
10. Gas, brake, or clutch pedals are not required to be within the reach of the sound quality Judges. Points will not be deducted by the Judges, including the judging of Ergonomics, if the Judges cannot reach these pedals.
11. During testing and scoring, the Judge must sit in the front seat/s of the vehicle, facing forward; this applies to all vehicles. Competing vehicles must have at least two front seating positions, aligned side to side (1 left seat, 1 right seat), not front to rear.
12. A Sound Quality Judge is not allowed to change the position of the seat to judge the sound system, unless this position is deemed unreasonable or uncomfortable for the Judge. The Judge must involve the competitor when making any adjustments. It will be the decision of the Sound Judge to determine if the seat positions are uncomfortable. Any seats that are reclined to more than a 45 degree angle may be considered unreasonable.
nigel1977 wrote:IT IS NOT A DRIVING CONTEST. It is OBVIOUS that the vehicle must be driven into the lanes. Its is also NOT necessary that the sound and or install judge be able to drive the vehicle during the SOUND portion of the contest. I don't see why the hell that would ever be an issue.if the vehicle is presented to the sound judge and in sound sound judges opininion the seat is too far back
the competitor can be asked to show ability to drive the vehicle in its presented state
I think it would be quite thoughtless of a competitor to fabricate seat extender brackets such that when the seat is slid forward, that the vehicle is not useable. Please. Be serious. Anybody, who knows anything about seat extender brackets, will know that the seat itself isnt extended, but rather the mounting holes of the seat rails are extended back. The seat itslef is still 100% functional, and will still slide forward and back. NOT LEFT AND RIGHT even though the seat could be pushed further inwards if needed. The range of travel of the seat on the rails is unchanged. the only difference, is that the seat's range of travel is shifted backwards, by the length of the bracket hole spacing. Its NOT chess... its checkers.
I distinctly remember asking this question at the last Training, and the short answer was, NOT IN ROOKIE.
What is the point people PAY to attend judges and competitors training by 1 judge, only to have a different ruling enforced by another.
LANCE, I suggest you post this question in the relevant forums on WWW.IASCA.COM., but I doubt anyone will have any more questions regarding this, by the time they are done reading this post.
THE ONLY SAY a sound judge has wrt to the seat position, is that it is uncomfortable and that the backrest is reclined greater than 45 degrees.
Its in the rule book as well.
SQ-6
10. Gas, brake, or clutch pedals are not required to be within the reach of the sound quality Judges. Points will not be deducted by the Judges, including the judging of Ergonomics, if the Judges cannot reach these pedals.
11. During testing and scoring, the Judge must sit in the front seat/s of the vehicle, facing forward; this applies to all vehicles. Competing vehicles must have at least two front seating positions, aligned side to side (1 left seat, 1 right seat), not front to rear.
12. A Sound Quality Judge is not allowed to change the position of the seat to judge the sound system, unless this position is deemed unreasonable or uncomfortable for the Judge. The Judge must involve the competitor when making any adjustments. It will be the decision of the Sound Judge to determine if the seat positions are uncomfortable. Any seats that are reclined to more than a 45 degree angle may be considered unreasonable.
Please be guided by what is printed in the rule book, and not what is an interpretation of the rule.
SR wrote:nigel1977 wrote:IT IS NOT A DRIVING CONTEST. It is OBVIOUS that the vehicle must be driven into the lanes. Its is also NOT necessary that the sound and or install judge be able to drive the vehicle during the SOUND portion of the contest. I don't see why the hell that would ever be an issue.if the vehicle is presented to the sound judge and in sound sound judges opininion the seat is too far back
the competitor can be asked to show ability to drive the vehicle in its presented state
I think it would be quite thoughtless of a competitor to fabricate seat extender brackets such that when the seat is slid forward, that the vehicle is not useable. Please. Be serious. Anybody, who knows anything about seat extender brackets, will know that the seat itself isnt extended, but rather the mounting holes of the seat rails are extended back. The seat itslef is still 100% functional, and will still slide forward and back. NOT LEFT AND RIGHT even though the seat could be pushed further inwards if needed. The range of travel of the seat on the rails is unchanged. the only difference, is that the seat's range of travel is shifted backwards, by the length of the bracket hole spacing. Its NOT chess... its checkers.
I distinctly remember asking this question at the last Training, and the short answer was, NOT IN ROOKIE.
What is the point people PAY to attend judges and competitors training by 1 judge, only to have a different ruling enforced by another.
LANCE, I suggest you post this question in the relevant forums on WWW.IASCA.COM., but I doubt anyone will have any more questions regarding this, by the time they are done reading this post.
THE ONLY SAY a sound judge has wrt to the seat position, is that it is uncomfortable and that the backrest is reclined greater than 45 degrees.
Its in the rule book as well.
SQ-6
10. Gas, brake, or clutch pedals are not required to be within the reach of the sound quality Judges. Points will not be deducted by the Judges, including the judging of Ergonomics, if the Judges cannot reach these pedals.
11. During testing and scoring, the Judge must sit in the front seat/s of the vehicle, facing forward; this applies to all vehicles. Competing vehicles must have at least two front seating positions, aligned side to side (1 left seat, 1 right seat), not front to rear.
12. A Sound Quality Judge is not allowed to change the position of the seat to judge the sound system, unless this position is deemed unreasonable or uncomfortable for the Judge. The Judge must involve the competitor when making any adjustments. It will be the decision of the Sound Judge to determine if the seat positions are uncomfortable. Any seats that are reclined to more than a 45 degree angle may be considered unreasonable.
Please be guided by what is printed in the rule book, and not what is an interpretation of the rule.
based on this post
i ask this question
why was the original psot even asked at all
lance is a memebr of team hybrid
nigell is the team leader
everyone has access to the rules
why the debate then
as team leader one would expect to be guiding team members in the right path
and if the team leader already has the info then what is the point of the post??
or is it that team hybrid has no confidence in the judges decisions locally
as there have been a few other posts in the past leading in the same manner
As i said before
there is a new foramt for judges trainign and coming out of it the "grey" areas will be debated and discussed
at the end of the day the rules and guidlines are set by IASCA and no team or manufacturer to suit their own personal views
as well as in the past different judges have different views regarding interpretations on the rule book however if the same judge is judging the entrie competition at an even there there is no issue on the interpretation as it applies acorss the board for all competitors
however some may feel that they are being "spited" based on rulings of the judge and this is not the case
its unfortunate that most if not all these issues are being raised by the same people
maybe its becasue they want to win and are looking for every way possble that they think the rules will afford them
nothing is wrong with that
however whats the point in winning in a class that you already know that you are way ahead of the competition
are you afraid of stepping up with others who are in your league or is it just a trophy thing
on the other hand
once the competitor stays within the rules and uses them to the max then they are deserving to win over the rest as they took the time to design and build to get the best out of their system
again these are all issues that have been brought up over and over again in meetings and everyone still has their own view on some items
this is why the judges training is being conducted by one facilitator across the board and at the end of it everything will be definitive
this is also being done for a somthing new in the future from IASCA
at the end of it no matter what my view is or the uk's view regarding installation a common decision will be applied across the board and all judges will be clear
this will no longer be up for debate or discussion after SBN
this is why we do not start our season locally untill after SBN due to changes that may be made to the rules and categories
May I humbly suggest that these sort of discussions be done in person, and the result be posted on the forum? Can a competitors' meeting be held to discuss these matters? Conference in foreign judges?
I am not questioning anyone's ability to clarify the rules, in fact I commend it.
However, as an "outsider", too often I see that ridiculing undertones are being exchanged back and forth, and the thread is becoming personalized rather than providing a straight resolution.
While it may not be apparent, I think it also has a disappointing effect on those who are interested in competition and are looking at how things are being handled now.
Even the foreign forums are noticing the arguing more than the points raised
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