IASCA TRINIDAD SQ CONCERN

[DE AUDIO]

I have a concern that I would like addressed. It is especially for Sound Quality as scores can be manipulated. Spl scores are straight foward and is read on a meter. SQ is different as you are judged out of a certain number in a specific area and you are scored based on the Judge.

Who are the IASCA Sound Quality Judges for Trinidad and Tobago?

I know of one, SR - is he the only Judge?

What prevents a Judge, who is the dealer for a certain brand of Sound Quality specific products (DLS) from being baised to his products?

What also prevents a Judge who has done the install for competitors from manipulating the scores as well so that their customers score high?

What has been put in place to prevent baisness. The reason for askin is not to bash anyone or Iasca. It is just concerns I have because I would like to send in a couple of vehicles to compete soon and these questions came to mind.

As most of you know I was a IASCA member for 2005 and would like to continue to be a member but would like the above addressed.

[Sully]

If you do not want to send the vehicles when sr is the judge, then enter when there is an international judge present. That should eliminate the doubt that you have.

Better yet, send the cars to be judged by the local judges (and yes, there's more than one), then send the same cars with the same install when the international judge is there to see how the scores vary. There's one thing to keep in mind though, judging a sq install is subjective.

[DE AUDIO]

okie that does not sound to bad, its not that i dont want sr to judge - i just want to know what is in place to prevent biasness.

How many times does the International Judge visit Trinidad for Car Shows?, from what I remember its only once a year.

Doing a comparision like what you suggest should eliminate some doubts tho.

[Sully]

The international judges are usually here just once for the year, but you'll have to talk to shameer to confirm that. I believe not the upcoming competition, but the one after that (early dec), there should be at least one international judge attending.

[SR]

I have a concern that I would like addressed. It is especially for Sound Quality as scores can be manipulated. Spl scores are straight foward and is read on a meter. SQ is different as you are judged out of a certain number in a specific area and you are scored based on the Judge.

Who are the IASCA Sound Quality Judges for Trinidad and Tobago?

I know of one, SR - is he the only Judge?

What prevents a Judge, who is the dealer for a certain brand of Sound Quality specific products (DLS) from being baised to his products?

What also prevents a Judge who has done the install for competitors from manipulating the scores as well so that their customers score high?

What has been put in place to prevent baisness. The reason for askin is not to bash anyone or Iasca. It is just concerns I have because I would like to send in a couple of vehicles to compete soon and these questions came to mind.

As most of you know I was a IASCA member for 2005 and would like to continue to be a member but would like the above addressed.

Obviously you have a problem with me and your tone in which your post indicates goes against my principles as a judge

For you information the category that the car i built for sound q was judged by the other IASCA judge along with Harry from sound extreme

Who are you to make a judge of character on an IASCA certified judge
build your cars and join and enter
if you dont want me to judge the category your vehicle is in there is another
All IASCA judging is done fairly and unbiased


there is no manipulation of scores as you are indicating

for someone who is not a present member nor even present at the actual shows nor even in the country you make some shallow accusations

so what exaclty do you want adressed......**********
do you want to have me removed as an IASCA judge as well??
as the tone of your post indicates that

Shameer Baksh is the other certified IASCA judge and is also holds the IASCA affiliation for Trinidad and Tobago
I suggest you take your issue up with him

Or you are welcome to take your issue up with IASCA directly

Note the first thing they will ask is if you are a present registered member and are you presently competing

You have no grounds for complaint and as far as i know there have been no complaints from any of the sound q competitors on my judging

However if i pose such a threat to your "competition" vehicle......then wait till a foriegn judge comes in and let them decide
You will see that the scores will be similar to if i had judged the vehicle

[Sully]

2NR Smurf, There's three judges aren't there? Shameer was judging sq a while back.

[SR]

and by the way

After Judging the top 20 cars at world finals 2004 and 2005
and judging at Spring break Nationals and 2005 and 2006

my judging must count for somthing according to IASCA

[2NR Smurf]

2NR Smurf, There's three judges aren't there? Shameer was judging sq a while back.

sorry bout the missing reply but sr pretty much posted the same ting i said.

There's 2 official local judges and i believe they training harry.

[DE AUDIO]

I am not questioning your judging or methods, nor am i expressing any tones. I am just expressing my concern as a past member and competitor.

As far as I know, there was one judge doing the sq judging when i was competing. All i wanted to know was what is in place for any baisness.

Now you said there is more than one judge which is definately better in fairness. As I said before it was just some concerns I have and one of them was as you being my competitor in business what is in place to prevent any feelings of biasness I may have.

This thread was not meant to bash you or anything to that sort. As I stated earlier. I am in no way making a judge on character. I simply have some questions that I would like addressed as any competitor would do in an IASCA forum.

I suggest you not take this personally as I am sure other people share the same concerns.

You are also right I am not a present member hence the reason for this post to clear up any doubts I have in my mind as a competitor. Again, you are taking this thread the wrong way as a complaint to you. It is not intended for that.

So do the judges judge your car all at once or you can request a judge?

[nigel1977]

presently, sr judges the street class, and harry and shameer judges the rookie class.

neither locally nor iasca internationally, have i ever heard of a competitor requesting a judge.

for someone to request a judge, there must be some sort of evidence as to why the judge is unsuitable. this should be done in writing.

if you are referring to the PRO class, you have a lot more to worry about than SR.
specifically referring to the PRo class, SR can only compete if someone else judges that class, as shameer and harry dont have the level of exposure that SR has. I feel at the national finals in dec, when terry comes, sr may opt to compete in the pro class.

[SR]

Just to update everyone

i WILL NOT be competing in the PRO class in decemeber as i would prefer others to have a chance of experiencing the judging technique of a foreign judge

If exonic decides to compete in sound q he will be in the pro class and up against
nigell1977 ravestar and anyone else who is in the car audio industry who wishes to compete

and trinidad is small
people talk so we know most of the users on this forum who also do car audio on the side ..........once you are involved in the industry you will be placed in the pro class as you will always have an advantage over the average consumer due to access of equipment at better than retail pricing

it is cleary written in the IASCA rule book

if anyone has a problem with a judge or the judging process there is a recourse and you can write to iasca regarding your concern

[DE AUDIO]

if you dont want me to judge the category your vehicle is in there is another

Well judging from the above statement, i was of the assumption that I can request a judge.

But other than that my main concern is what is in IASCA rules and requlations that prevents a judge from being biased. I mean one of the major judges for IASCA (SR) is my competitor in business. Other than having my vehicle judged by the international judge and comparing both - what else is there to prevent such a thing.

Note again I am not saying SR is biased or anything to that sort- i am using him as an example as he is directly involved in my concerns as my competitor in business.

[nigel1977]

Just to update everyone

i WILL NOT be competing in the PRO class in decemeber

awww sheit. y man. was looking forward to that.

[2NR Smurf]

^me too

[SR]

For your information it makes no difference what brand product is used

you will note on an iasca score sheet the sound q aspect is done first then the install
so the judge wont know what brand product you have unless you indicate or it can easily be seen

when judging i dont care what the brand is only how it sounds
and on the install side i dont care what brand it is only that is has been installed according to the guidlines set by the rule book

i have heard some of the most expensive systems in the world and judged against systems maybe even 1/10th the cost and be beaten by the cheaper system because of proper install and tuning

20% equipment 80% install thats the rule of thumb

i am flattered to be considered your competition seeing that i carry 1/10th the number of lines that you have and i dont have a store to retail my products in

i am really really flattered....................i must be doing somthing right to be considered competition for you as a business

[fuzz_174]

so wait nah..if i decide to compete in november/ december...

would i have to compete in Pro as well?

remember i never competed in a Sq event before..

[SR]

yes but fuzz you deal in car audio

once you are involved in the industry you go into pro

unless you have a special case and can justify not going into pro there is a semi pro category

[Sully]

Well judging from the above statement, i was of the assumption that I can request a judge.

You cannot request a judge. What can be done is you can file a complaint against a judge, but you must do so in writing, and have just cause, and most importantly, proof.

[nigel1977]

i was now going to mention, in every class in sq iasca, there is a member of team art of noise using some form of DLS. also in every class, there are competitors that use competing brands to DLS like boston, diamond, focal, zapco, jbl, pg, and NONE of the competitors from my team, or from any other has ever complained about unfair or biased judging.

I also remember the 2 or 3 events you competed in the pro class against Sr when Clarence judged, I wont say what the results were, but Im sure you remember.

So to alleve your concern regarding biased judging, its hasnt happened so far, and the way things are shaping up for iasca trinida, i dont see that happening in the future, so you can bring out your customers cars, and your car of course.

[fuzz_174]

hmm...well how can i go into the semi-pro category?

my argument/defence is that i never competed in any type of SQ event before..

and i think it may be unfair to compete against the like of seasoned veterans like nigel and co..

also the equipment i may use to compete with werent acquired through my links in the car audio industry ..

is that enough justification to compete in semi pro? LOL

[DE AUDIO]

Well thank you all for addressing my concerns. I must say I am feeling a little better now with regards to competing. And just for the record, there were some other members that expressed to me the same concerns which is why I decided to make a thread of it.

I hope all of your questions was answered and if not please post your questions.

Again, this thread was not to discredit SR in anyway. I have had no problems with him with regards to judging, The reason I mentioned him was as a prime example WITHIN MY OWN CONCERN. You must have a feeling of biasness when your competitor is judging your vehicle and your customers as well.

Again thank you all for your comments on the matter.

[SR]

nope

legitmate reciepts from the store that sold the item would help

the rules are thier to protect those who do not have the advantage of others for aquiring equipment for free or cheaper costs than the real rookie who pays the regular retail price for an item

sponsorship of equipment puts one at an advantage

dont try to beat the system like a typical trini who is always looking for the easier advantage and step up to the plate

the bottom line is that you sell car audio commercially and that puts you in the pro

of course your argument is that you dont have a store but do you profit from it

if you answer truthfully the answer would be yes and you should be in the pro class
however if you can provide a convincing case to Shameer and myself we would consider allowing you to drop into the semi pro bracket

please read the iasca rules regarding classification

[ravestarfx]

glad too see it was addressed

[SR]

Well thank you all for addressing my concerns. I must say I am feeling a little better now with regards to competing. And just for the record, there were some other members that expressed to me the same concerns which is why I decided to make a thread of it.

I hope all of your questions was answered and if not please post your questions.

Again, this thread was not to discredit SR in anyway. I have had no problems with him with regards to judging, The reason I mentioned him was as a prime example WITHIN MY OWN CONCERN. You must have a feeling of biasness when your competitor is judging your vehicle and your customers as well.

Again thank you all for your comments on the matter.

so can we hope to see some reel comepetiton for nigell1977 in the pro class as he feels lonely in his bracket
also if you have any rookies now is a good time for them to start as they can gains some experience in competition and be better prepared for the 2007 season

they dont have to worry the present rookie competitors will have to move up after december 2006 as they can only compete for season as a rookie

but the pro class needs some competition

and i prefer it not be me

here is a challenge to you exonic

build a competition car to go up against nigell1977 in the pro class

lets see what you can do

[DE AUDIO]

As you know I am out of the country - I have 1 more year in University and then I will be competing fully.

As for some of the demo vehicles I am doing, I wont be there to compete directly as in person. However, can I have someone bring the vehivle to the shows and compete on my behalf?

If not you should see me for December show definately.

[SR]

the thing is

a presentation must be done and if your rep does not do a presentation then you will lose points

you can have you vehicle brought in by someone else but a you must send a letter in writing to the IASCA locally stating the reason why you cannot be present but you will have someone bringing the vehicle and identify who the person is

but there still is the issue with the membership which you will need to discuss with shameer
it is all clearly stated in the rule book

[DE AUDIO]

hmmm this sounds like something I can definately do. I was of the impression that if the vehicle is not regeristered in the competitors name that the person cannot compete.

Sounds good, so I can make arrangements to compete while I am away. Goood stuff guys/.