IASCA 14 FINAL SCORES

[SR]

Rookie
1st Devin Ramkissoon SQ 126 SQI 72 total 198
2nd Mikhail Ramcharan SQ 128 SQI 57 total 185

Amateur
1st Miguel Dindial SQ 229 SQI 194 total 423
2nd Jeffery NgChow SQ 235 SQI 184 total 419
3rd Andrew Dopson SQ 223 SQI 195 total 418

Pro
1st Vishnu Mangalsingh SQ 238 SQI 239 total 477 max pts for PRO SQI

Ultimate
1st Dinelle Mangalsingh SQ 242 SQI 299 total 541

SQC
1st Dinelle Mangalsingh 242
2nd Vishnu Mangalsingh 238 tie breaker tonal accuracy 89 soundstage 60
3rd Kashmead Khan 238 tie breaker tonal accuracy 89 soundstage 58
4th Roger Marshall 228

Max pts for each category
Rookie
SQ 150 SQI 83
Amateur
SQ 275 SQI 209
Pro
SQ 275 SQI 239
Ultimate
SQ 275 SQI 309

score sheets for competitors will be available from thursday

[Lance]

I think we a detailed explaination of what happened there.

How could one mischeck scores to that extent?
Come on man.

In One class scores went up by 10pts and some went down.

I'm not sure the old scores. but Dinelle Score dropped by 50pts if memory serves me correct.

So i say again How could one mischeck scores to such a great extent.


SR?

[SR]

max score in ultimate class is 584 so how can he get a score of 591

based on an official complaint i had to go back thru the score sheets and correct some mistakes that were made

in some areas the score is either 0 or 5 and not in between
even in your sheet you were scored a 2 when the score is either 0 or 3

i'm afraid mistakes were made in the rush to tally the scores to get them out online asap
i now have to review this process and we will not be posting scores until all sheets have been doubled checked by the head judge
as well as i need to go thru the install judging process with my new judges so that they can work more efficiently


i must stress to all that there is absolutley no conflict of interest with any of the judging team and any competitor

if anyone wishes to express such concerns please send it to me in writing and copy to iasca head office and we will deal with it accordingly

i prefer you use this method rather than commenting to other members about it as it gets you no where

the above scores are final and when you get your respective score sheets you will see where the mistakes were corrected

[SR]

if you have any concerns regarding this and wish to discuss please email me at caraudio@tstt.net.tt and i will respond accordingly

[Lance]

my mistake it was a change from 570.

[nigel1977]

No It was NOT Lance, It was posted as 590.

I distinctly remember silent riot commenting on the 590 that was posted, but that thread is now in the archive.
I looked at my rule book and did the math, but I kept it to myself, waiting for someone to realise that there were a plethora of errors in both the scoring and the computation. How on earth did I get 590 - 242 = 348. The max points in install is 309. How could someone adding this, not look at the bottom of the sheet and not realise there was an error. What would have been the case if there was another competitor.

I have a lot more to add, so stay tuned.

[nigel1977]

From a judge's point of view, if an item is scored 2 out of 3, in a class of 0 to 3, then that same item should be 0, in a class of 0 or 3. If the item did not recieve 3 in the range system, then it was not perfect, and does not deserve a full score in an absolute system of 0 or x. its either you met the criteria or you didnt... and if you didnt, you get 0. Those are the rules. In that case, everyones score should have dropped or are you saying that scores were mixed up on only 3 of the 8 score sheets that day.

How can 1 score move up by at least 13 points, and the other drop in the same class? And why has this points shifting only affected 3 of the 8 competitors?


All of this could have been avoided if copies of score sheets were given out on the day. I understand, providing copies of score sheets are costly.

In light of this, I will be providing IASCA TRINIDAD with the following:
1. a ream of 500 sheets of paper
2. a pack of 100 sheets of carbon copy film
3. 2 clipboards

I would also like to recommed the following immediate steps to avoid this hiccup, and to remove any possibility of inference that the judging system is flawed and/or biased:
1. Remove all the present scores and consider all the scores from this event null and void.
2. Retrain your judges to score and compute.
3. Refrain from having your trainee judges actually involved in the point allocation/scoring
4. Be more involved in your training of the judges and not have them learn by route. That does not make sense.
5. Understand that IASCA does have accountability to its members/competitors.

I am still waiting on my score sheets from the last event, almost 2 months ago. My email address is clearly printed on all of my score sheets, and the scores are all stored digitally.

What's the excuse now?

I categorically state, that I mistrust these scores on the primary basis that all these 0-3/0or 5 abmormalities does not compute. How do some scores rise if some fall?


To everyone else, not affiliated with IASCA, and reading this post, I apologise for the coarse tone of this message. It is necessary, to keep everything above the table.

While the above does not directly affect the placement of Lance and/or myself, it represents a serious problem with the scoring and awarding of points.

I truly hope someone proves me wrong, because if I am not...

[SR]

Comments and points duly noted and adjustments will be made
Contributions not required thanks for the offer
Scores stand as is now as my ruling regarding the incorrect score on the sheet was to give the competitor the benefit of the doubt as i cannot confirm otherwise
and seeing that it was definatly not a 0 then my only choice was to give the higher score as it clearly states 0 or 3 or 0 or 5

Keep i mind we are all human and errors can be made
just as a competitor is nervous the first couple times when competing so is a judge when they know they have a responsibility to do the right thing
with regards to scores changing when you get your individual score sheets you will see where the mistakes were made and where the corrections were done

i never said there were mistakes in all the score sheets but i had to go back thru all of them to ensure that their werent any more

there are other issues that were brought to my attention out of this event and there will be some changes regarding the judging process as well as the categorising of vehicles/competitors

As for your recommendations

results stand as is

Trainee judges will continue to work alongside certified judges as was the case on sunday

There will be a a refresher training session for all judges prior to next event


At this point in time i have have no reason to remove any of my judging team from doing their duties inclusive of the trainee judges


as this is my first event having taken over the admin function of IASCA Caribbean there are things that need to be rectified and will be in place for the next event
so on behalf of the judging team from sunday i do apologise for any inconveniences caused on your behalf

[adopson]

I'm glad the scores are finalized and strangely enough it only affected 3 competitors...............but daz no cn..winning is not all...lets just hope this competition doesn't get corrupted like the gov't....

[nigel1977]

Scores stand as is now as my ruling regarding the incorrect score on the sheet was to give the competitor the benefit of the doubt as i cannot confirm otherwise
and seeing that it was definatly not a 0 then my only choice was to give the higher score as it clearly states 0 or 3 or 0 or 5

I like your approach. The competitor/(s) certainly deserve/(s) the benefit of the doubt. Funny though, that only 1 competitor benefited 13+ points whilst another benefited 5- points. If you are rounding up, how on earth can a competitor loose points. I am simply trying to use your feedback to explain the points adjustments.

Like I said before, I mistrust all these scores, and this will be echoed in my official communication to IASCA International.

so on behalf of the judging team from sunday i do apologise for any inconveniences caused on your behalf

An apology is not necessary kind sir. Its a hard enough job, mopping up. I know you are doing your best to undo this mess. You just missed a few spots, over there.

[roger]

[SR]

On advice from IASCA head office

corrupted scores in the install section were removed across the board

and the resuts remain the same

1st Miguel Dindial SQ 229 Install 151 total 380
2nd Jeffery Ng Chow SQ 235 Install 142 total 377 tie breaker tonal accuracy 90
3rd Andrew Dopson SQ 223 Install 154 total 377 tie breaker tonal accuracy 80

this was based on advice from Moe from IASCA head office
My other choice would be to follow Nigell1977 recomendation and declare install scoring corrupted and remove it completly from the overall scoring in amateur class

this would now put placements based on sound only

Also based on advice from IASCA head office i will be removing the existing judge from Judging Sound Q due to conflict of interest
To avoid further personal issues IASCA head office has advised as such
He will still remain part of the judging team and will still be judging alongside the rest of of us as i see no biasness in his efforts


Competitors are to note that in your rule book it clearly states all greivances are to be sent in writing to the head judge

so again the scores still stand as is


As for the score sheets for the next event
SQ will be using original duplicate sheets


based on discussions with the affiliate owner we cannot run a category with only one competitor while we will remain with it in regular SQ SQC is an option for us to run and we have decided that there must be at least 2 people in SQC to complete a class

SQC2 class is open to all
SQC1 is open to rookie amatuer and pro class

SQC will be open to members and non members of IASCA

if a competitor registers for SQC and there are no other competitors by the close of registration, fees shall be returned to the competitor

[madman.devin]

It's kinda hard to belive that only the scores from a certain crew had issues with them. I don't understand why IASCA Trinidad would discriminate aganist one of the most active SQ group in T&T.
But say what if the Team accepts it who am I to complain.
As a first time competitor I'm not encouraged to compete again if the judging is Biased.

[nigel1977]

Lets nip this in the bud gentlemen.

SR has gone thru great lengths to clear up as much of the mess as possible.

I'm happy with the way things turned out. Its a lesson to us, and a lesson to the Iasca people.

1 small mistake can have lots of consequences.

There's absolutely no need to beat this issue any further.

On behalf of THT, I'd like to thank SR for his efforts in resolving this.

See you all on the 5th.

[jeff]

congrats to everyone that competed
big up team hybrids and other new uprising teams , yal keep the standards high

thanks to all the judges, who knows how much pressure is put on them, and anything that goes wrong, fingers are pointed

thanks to the old school men sr and dinelle for keeping this alive
a new generation seems to be stepping up

all are welcome to come, and learn, and listen to the sq section of the ice club

all is well in the sq world once again

[Sully]

As a first time competitor I'm not encouraged to compete again if the judging is Biased.

And this is exactly the thing that IASCA tries to avoid but quite often fails at it. Whether or not the judging is bias or not, it's the perception to the public that needs to be cleared up. Only then will you have more people willing to come forward to compete.

[SR]

It's kinda hard to belive that only the scores from a certain crew had issues with them. I don't understand why IASCA Trinidad would discriminate aganist one of the most active SQ group in T&T.But say what if the Team accepts it who am I to complain.
As a first time competitor I'm not encouraged to compete again if the judging is Biased.

who said anything about discrimination

IASCA does not discriminate hence why i have spent a lot of time trying to get this done as fairly as possible

based on my discussions certain decisions had to made this morning and they have been put in place already

i would like to have this settled and lets move on

oct 5th is the national finals and i would like to see everyone improve on thier scores
comments were put on all the score sheets
if everyone does thier homework i see no reason for anyone to lose pts in install
Vishnu has proven it by attaining full pts

its the easiest area to gain pts in each category

[Lance]

This is the last show for the season?

Or is IASCA still having a 100% National Finals aside from October 5th?

[SR]

Oct 5th will be the national finals and the last event for the 2008 season

2009 season will start in november

watch out for more events in 2009 as new schedule is being worked on
hopefully sq will get at least 8 events for the 2009 season

Hopefully we will start off the 2009 season with a WR event
i will be discussing with iasca in the next 3 weeks regarding this event

[Lance]

Sorry i asked my question badly,

Will this be the last show for the year?

[SR]

no as of this date there will be 2 more events
oct 5th and november date to be confirmed

[3stagevtec]

bump for the IDBL scores...

[BASS MONSTERS!!!!!!]

november.........................

[3stagevtec]

wa goin on with the IDBL scores from the show?

[nirmal_333]

scores is one thing where the pics from the show i was not there i want to see some !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SR]

idbl scores will be up by monday night

as for the pics unfortunatley the photographer could not make the event due to unforseen circumstances
i apologise for this

[nirmal_333]

oo o o ok well at lease i or we know now can't wait for next show dammmmmmmm thats far

[videsht]

bump

IDBL scores?

[yos19]

come on dude... put up the scores please,,

is mon night now........hopefully it wil be up when i chk in d morn..

[3stagevtec]

when they said monday, i thought they was refering to the monday the 15th... not monday the 29th...

....