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There are many lengthy and expensive requirements that must be met to maintain an OEM dealership, including service bay equipment, spare parts and mechanic training.carluva wrote:When one speaks of RORO, there should be a distinction to what one is referring to. IMO, RORO actually refers to grey market car dealers and these can fall into one of three categories.
1 - Reputable Grey Market dealers who sell second hand vehicles from an overseas market (RORO).
2- Scamp Grey Market dealers who sell second hand vehicles from an overseas market.
3 - Grey Market dealers who sell new vehicles from and overseas market.
There is actually a fourth category called knock down which is where the vehicle was basically disassembled at source country and then reassembled in T&T. I will not chat about these in my post as these were long since banned by the GORTT, perhaps 20+ years ago.
From the factory, a second hand vehicle from an overseas market was never meant for the T&T market, which is why there were great differences in standard features available on these vehicles versus their new counterparts sold in T&T. Some of the standard features were better while some posed issues for persons as described by agent007.
Now, for the first category, there would be a few dealers who built a reputation for importing vehicles which were "true to form". In other words, when that dealer says that the vehicle has 29,000 km on the odometer, you could've been confident that the odometer reading was legitimate and that there was no tampering of chassis number or engine number and you could have been pretty confident of the age of the vehicle. Thus, the vehicle will be priced accordingly and for this reason some models were more expensive than others.
These dealers catered to many persons in T&T and also encouraged the foreign used parts market. For the most part, many persons would have good experiences with these vehicles and this caused many to swear by RORO vehicles. Unfortunately, T&T became a dumping ground for many older vehicles. Due to laws in the source country, these types of vehicles needed to pay either very high taxes and run through very costly inspections to keep on the road or be removed from the roads. Hence they became destined for markets as ours with no such regulations.
Over time, the GORTT sought to phase out certain ages of RORO vehicles. However, this could well have been due to lobbying by the new car dealers to reduce competition and to maintain their monopoly.
For the second category, these were similar to the first, but these were the dealers who would roll back odometers, falsify chassis numbers, engine numbers or falsely state that the vehicle was not involved in any accident knowing fully well that this was not the case. These were the scamps who charged same price as category 1 but who sold inferior vehicles to unwitting customers.
These are the persons who gave the foreign used dealers a real bad name. Personally, while there were many good stories of persons owning RORO vehicles, the horror stories I heard from others were enough to warrant me never buying a RORO vehicle, not to mention some of the terrible accidents involving knock downs. Hence, I stuck to the local used market or the new market. One could argue that the former could be just as dishonest as the RORO scamps, but to me, the likelihood was lower. More so however, I knew I was purchasing a vehicle meant for a T&T market which meant that parts, service, updates and recalls would still apply to the vehicle.
The third category of grey market dealers is the category I have great issue with. These are the dealers who are willfully selling vehicles not destined for T&T.
These are the dealers who offer a "warranty" and not a warranty... New car dealers in T&T are authorised by the manufacturer they represent to sell that particular brand of vehicle. Therefore, they access the models DESIGNED FOR THE T&T MARKET, and by extension will be able to honour warranty, offer exact replacement parts, address technical issues per manufacturer recommendations for that vehicle, honour recalls and a host of other benefits meant for that vehicle being sold.
AFAIK, these grey market dealers selling the new vehicles do not have the authorisation of the particular brand to sell that vehicle. Rather, they would purchase from the authorised dealer of another country, load the vehicle on a boat and sell it here as new. Yes, the vehicle is new and has better features. Some have the same engine, but a better tune. This is potentially damaging especially for a diesel vehicle as the better engine tune requires better diesel which we all know is not available here. So for the purchasers of Hilux GR Sport, Frontier 2.3TT and perhaps even the Ranger 2.0 TT, keep your fingers crossed that the $hitty diesel does not wreck your engine.
When that stupid driver passes too close to you and knocks off your wing mirror and the 360 camera goes out of whack, how is this fixed back to the manufacturers spec?
When the windshield is cracked because that truck kicks up a pebble and the Lane Departure Assist or AEB begins to fault and you cannot get the correct windscreen replacement, what is the position.
If the vehicle gets into a fender bender, where will you access that fender flare?
If any of those happen, can the Grey Market dealer actually remedy this issue? Nope. They do not have access to the manufacturer because they are not authorised by the manufacturer to sell that vehicle here.
What about Teslas which do not get software updates? EGCs which cannot access software updates as the local dealer is not yet authorised to sell this vehicle here... Does this grey market dealer access these? Unlikely to no.
These dealer sell Hybrids, but haw many actually know how to repair/maintain a hybrid and can also access the parts/batteries for the same? I have heard many bad stories of persons buying grey market hybrids only to have battery faults that cannot be repaired and the vehicle is down for sometime until they purchase the part or fight up to find someone to fix the same.
The third category of dealer is the one which is willfully selling a vehicle that is not meant for here and knows fully well that the warranty offered is simply a joke and that after sales support is substandard compared to the authorised new vehicle seller.
IMO, these are the dealers who need to be regulated to stop their willful deception, thieving and skullduggery. Customers are being cheated with these dealers and will have little to no recourse in the event of major vehicle issues.
adnj wrote:There are many lengthy and expensive requirements that must be met to maintain an OEM dealership, including service bay equipment, spare parts and mechanic training.
Although there aren't any homologation requirements for OEMs that are specific to the Caribbean, there may be some local issues like road conditions and fuel quality that may affect what vehicle may prove to be unreliable.
adnj wrote:
Regarding low-level optioned vehicles: it's done in small markets (and TTO is a very, very small market) to reduce service parts inventory and repair complexity. There are also vplume requirements on orders - OEMs schedule product mix months in advance and place restrictions on what models and the number of vehicles that a dealer may order.
PariaMan wrote:Plus look at thr increases within about 5 or 6 years hilux when up by about 100 000 and now they offering 30000 off
It's clear to me that it's price gourging taking place
They are willing to sell less vehicles at a higher price and make same profit with less vehicles to maintain
Exactly my point once there is no competition and plenty buyers the prices will keep going up .j.o.e wrote:PariaMan wrote:Plus look at thr increases within about 5 or 6 years hilux when up by about 100 000 and now they offering 30000 off
It's clear to me that it's price gourging taking place
They are willing to sell less vehicles at a higher price and make same profit with less vehicles to maintain
A business will sell at the maximum price they can get customers especially when there is no competition. As long as there are willing buyers at high prices it will continue.
carluva wrote:When one speaks of RORO, there should be a distinction to what one is referring to. IMO, RORO actually refers to grey market car dealers and these can fall into one of three categories.
1 - Reputable Grey Market dealers who sell second hand vehicles from an overseas market (RORO).
2- Scamp Grey Market dealers who sell second hand vehicles from an overseas market.
3 - Grey Market dealers who sell new vehicles from and overseas market.
There is actually a fourth category called knock down which is where the vehicle was basically disassembled at source country and then reassembled in T&T. I will not chat about these in my post as these were long since banned by the GORTT, perhaps 20+ years ago.
From the factory, a second hand vehicle from an overseas market was never meant for the T&T market, which is why there were great differences in standard features available on these vehicles versus their new counterparts sold in T&T. Some of the standard features were better while some posed issues for persons as described by agent007.
Now, for the first category, there would be a few dealers who built a reputation for importing vehicles which were "true to form". In other words, when that dealer says that the vehicle has 29,000 km on the odometer, you could've been confident that the odometer reading was legitimate and that there was no tampering of chassis number or engine number and you could have been pretty confident of the age of the vehicle. Thus, the vehicle will be priced accordingly and for this reason some models were more expensive than others.
These dealers catered to many persons in T&T and also encouraged the foreign used parts market. For the most part, many persons would have good experiences with these vehicles and this caused many to swear by RORO vehicles. Unfortunately, T&T became a dumping ground for many older vehicles. Due to laws in the source country, these types of vehicles needed to pay either very high taxes and run through very costly inspections to keep on the road or be removed from the roads. Hence they became destined for markets as ours with no such regulations.
Over time, the GORTT sought to phase out certain ages of RORO vehicles. However, this could well have been due to lobbying by the new car dealers to reduce competition and to maintain their monopoly.
For the second category, these were similar to the first, but these were the dealers who would roll back odometers, falsify chassis numbers, engine numbers or falsely state that the vehicle was not involved in any accident knowing fully well that this was not the case. These were the scamps who charged same price as category 1 but who sold inferior vehicles to unwitting customers.
These are the persons who gave the foreign used dealers a real bad name. Personally, while there were many good stories of persons owning RORO vehicles, the horror stories I heard from others were enough to warrant me never buying a RORO vehicle, not to mention some of the terrible accidents involving knock downs. Hence, I stuck to the local used market or the new market. One could argue that the former could be just as dishonest as the RORO scamps, but to me, the likelihood was lower. More so however, I knew I was purchasing a vehicle meant for a T&T market which meant that parts, service, updates and recalls would still apply to the vehicle.
The third category of grey market dealers is the category I have great issue with. These are the dealers who are willfully selling vehicles not destined for T&T.
These are the dealers who offer a "warranty" and not a warranty... New car dealers in T&T are authorised by the manufacturer they represent to sell that particular brand of vehicle. Therefore, they access the models DESIGNED FOR THE T&T MARKET, and by extension will be able to honour warranty, offer exact replacement parts, address technical issues per manufacturer recommendations for that vehicle, honour recalls and a host of other benefits meant for that vehicle being sold.
AFAIK, these grey market dealers selling the new vehicles do not have the authorisation of the particular brand to sell that vehicle. Rather, they would purchase from the authorised dealer of another country, load the vehicle on a boat and sell it here as new. Yes, the vehicle is new and has better features. Some have the same engine, but a better tune. This is potentially damaging especially for a diesel vehicle as the better engine tune requires better diesel which we all know is not available here. So for the purchasers of Hilux GR Sport, Frontier 2.3TT and perhaps even the Ranger 2.0 TT, keep your fingers crossed that the $hitty diesel does not wreck your engine.
When that stupid driver passes too close to you and knocks off your wing mirror and the 360 camera goes out of whack, how is this fixed back to the manufacturers spec?
When the windshield is cracked because that truck kicks up a pebble and the Lane Departure Assist or AEB begins to fault and you cannot get the correct windscreen replacement, what is the position.
If the vehicle gets into a fender bender, where will you access that fender flare?
If any of those happen, can the Grey Market dealer actually remedy this issue? Nope. They do not have access to the manufacturer because they are not authorised by the manufacturer to sell that vehicle here.
What about Teslas which do not get software updates? EGCs which cannot access software updates as the local dealer is not yet authorised to sell this vehicle here... Does this grey market dealer access these? Unlikely to no.
These dealer sell Hybrids, but haw many actually know how to repair/maintain a hybrid and can also access the parts/batteries for the same? I have heard many bad stories of persons buying grey market hybrids only to have battery faults that cannot be repaired and the vehicle is down for sometime until they purchase the part or fight up to find someone to fix the same.
The third category of dealer is the one which is willfully selling a vehicle that is not meant for here and knows fully well that the warranty offered is simply a joke and that after sales support is substandard compared to the authorised new vehicle seller.
IMO, these are the dealers who need to be regulated to stop their willful deception, thieving and skullduggery. Customers are being cheated with these dealers and will have little to no recourse in the event of major vehicle issues.
carluva wrote:Just as the residents of Beetham Gardens have united, protested and gained attention, consumers in Trinidad and Tobago need to do the same and start taking action to try to curb these dealers from price gouging.
The grey market dealers need to be regulated as they do consume foreign exchange on poor quality products. Some action needs to be taken against these persons too.
Too many grey market dealers have profited from consumers at the expense of the consumer.
This needs to stop.
How is this different from the RORO scamps....Strugglerzinc wrote:Where did it say 2.5?
Shalom Vanamson wrote:Reading everything from the latest discussion has been very interesting and informative and I'm surprised things are not better when it comes to these stealerships *Dealerships correction whether it be under the Grey Market or Authorized Dealers with the information members in this forum possess. We should be able to take them to task in relation to their ridiculous prices and laughable warranties and that proposal the Agent guy made in relation to an Association of Enthusiast sounds like a healthy start.
Competition benefits the Customer in other words us as consumers would have the benefit of better prices on vehicles in this country. The fact of the matter is these Authorized Dealers are over doing it and it cannot be justified by the notion of being specially made for our market and the availability of parts which is a very questionable point. In the case of Diesel vehicles from Authorized dealers and being tested for our diesel quality is all but a comforting statement as these vehicles still experience problems with that fuel in this country engines failures etc.
As for the grey market those who roll back the odometer should be jailed. Those who bring in new vehicles from other markets and sell are on to something however they need to ensure a proper support system which would include maintenance, parts (being readily available or reach within a respectable time) and a healthy warranty.
In conclusion it boils down to you as an individual. If you are comfortable with buying a vehicle from Authorized dealers with questionable justifications and being robbed blindly that is okay. Those who are comfortable buying from the Grey market whether it be Brand New or Used and run the risk of not getting specific parts for your vehicle at all or within a good time and a lack of persons being able to maintain the vehicle as it needs to be in the case of some that is okay,.BUT A MONOPOLY IS WHAT WE SHOULDN'T ALLOW
Strugglerzinc wrote:Where did it say 2.5?
Because in spite of what others would like to have us believe, the new car dealers engage in many of the same unethical practices that RORO dealers have been accused of. The only difference is that it's impossible to roll back mileage on a new vehicle.SLVR1 wrote:Strugglerzinc wrote:Where did it say 2.5?
The ad does not explicitly state 2.5 but those who know the turbo model sold in other countries will know its a 2.5 turbo. The local is a 2.0 NA. Therefore, by stating "turbo" it is imply something that simply is not present. Even the pdf brochure I got says 2.5 and that is not for our market. It is easy to get misled esp. if you do not know better. Also, why post/advertise something to attract attention and waste someone's time.
drchaos wrote:Wait nah ... ANSA selling the new HRV hybrid for 310
PariaMan wrote:It's competition from the gray market caused this not Agent
PV marketing is selling for 255000Screenshot_20220713-063330_WhatsApp.jpg
Non Hybridtmack wrote:PariaMan wrote:It's competition from the gray market caused this not Agent
PV marketing is selling for 255000Screenshot_20220713-063330_WhatsApp.jpg
Do you know if this is the Hybrid model?
PariaMan wrote:Non Hybridtmack wrote:PariaMan wrote:It's competition from the gray market caused this not Agent
PV marketing is selling for 255000Screenshot_20220713-063330_WhatsApp.jpg
Do you know if this is the Hybrid model?
And still much cheaper than ANSA
PariaMan wrote:Ansa seems to just pull a price from thin air of what the value a vehicle should be rather that the actual cost of a vehicle
Then Stupid Trinidadians think it is exclusive because it's costly and rush to buy it
Plus they feel empowered when the are snobbish towards the Grey market dealers
What a cuntry
Shalom Vanamson wrote:PariaMan wrote:Ansa seems to just pull a price from thin air of what the value a vehicle should be rather that the actual cost of a vehicle
Then Stupid Trinidadians think it is exclusive because it's costly and rush to buy it
Plus they feel empowered when the are snobbish towards the Grey market dealers
What a cuntry
Saw what you did there with that last statement. But I find Massy is just as bad as Ansa. They raised prices on all Navaras a couple weeks ago so the Pro 4X is now 375k the LE not too far behind. Toyota is just as bad selling a Hybrid Rav 4 for over 700k. I really dont know what these Authorized Dealers feel it is.bess you buy a brand new Prado from Japan or bring it in yourself slightly used for less
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