Old School Projects

[roadracer7]

32/36 webber carb $600.00

[d spike]

32/36 webber carb $600.00

That's a far more reasonable price than $800! It hurt to think about shelling out almost a grand for a used carb, especially when the most I ever paid for one was $500.

(Building an Escort and will need one soon. If no one rushes you for it in the next couple of months, I will come a-wooing )

Kingbob! Take my dotish advice and tackle roadracer7 for this carb! You most likely won't get a better price, I'm afraid... Whatever engine you decide to use, this carb will make it sing.

[king bob]

lol. finances spike finances. if when i get money it's still here then heck yh

[d spike]

lol. finances spike finances. if when i get money it's still here then heck yh

Boy, do I know that song...

Anybody here knows where I could get a side-draughts' manifold for the 2-litre Pinto?

[nigie]

u building a pinto spike?

[d spike]

NOMOSS, engage in a little bench racing on this topic when you have the time...
I bought a 2-litre Pinto and type C gearbox (the one we call the "1600" gearbox) for $500 from a young 'un who wanted a "fast" engine for his project car.

That

"fast" engine

remark burned a hole in my soul, I can tell you...
Then one reads stuff like this:

That Pinto will surprise you...

Spike u starting 2 frighten me now...take care u aint over raise Bob expectations....as biased as everbody know me be....those jappo engines producing power galore ...they only falling down in longevity and because plenty tuners dont have they act 2 gether....and the good ones overdoing it with stretching the stock block and internals...yes i reluctantly admit ...a properly tuned sr20 is a far superior candidate than a 2000 ford...

Well, I am seriously thinking of an appropriate response.
The Escort that I was going to drop the Kent into...? I was thinking of dropping that $500 Pinto into it and showing it to be at least the equivalent of whatever modern jappo her previous owner chooses to run... and do it "El Cheapo" style, for fellahs who like cars but think they can't afford them...

First, the Pinto. She was running, but she certainly couldn't go anywhere near her potential...
First, she was fitted with the original T-type exhaust manifold - a serious power-takeaway there.
Then she was being made to breathe through a single-throat Weber - so she couldn't develop any top-end speed...
Which was a good thing, as her flywheel was bolted onto the crankshaft with AUTOMATIC RING-GEAR BOLTS!!!! If she had developed any real torque, that flywheel would have torn those bolts like old cheese...
So then I opened up the old girl...
...and found the block's water-jacket area was so full of rust and scale, water could not pass. I had to sit down with a couple of old screwdrivers and a garden hose and scrape and poke for an entire afternoon. The amount of stuff that came out of that block was able to fill a good-sized pothole in the old garage floor!

The fact that this old girl still ran was yet another small testament to the rep of the 2-litre Pinto.

Now, the opposition.
I want to run this girl at Solodex (and give the Viva her long-awaited sabbatical) and just annoy people who think "new=better"
I understand that her previous owner has got her "fast" replacement - an RB20... approximately 130hp.

130hp????
This Pinto with extractors, 32/36 Weber, and a shaved head should be able to do a similar number, not so?

So that's next year's project.
(In between finishing the house and organizing the estate. )


What else can be done to this build?
I would prefer to keep the type C gearbox (to keep spending down) but can it take this type of running? And if it can, how much more can it take, within reason?

Type C gearbox Gear ratios:
First 3.58:1
Second 2.01:1
Third 1.40:1
Fourth 1.00:1

The "2000" gearbox (the Type B gearbox)
Type B gearbox Gear ratios:
First 3.65:1
Second 1.97:1
Third 1.37:1
Fourth 1.00:1

Exhaust pipe... how small (cheap) can I go before I start inhibiting the flow? "A little choke gives it torque", so does this matter? Remember, Solodex requires more low-end torque.
That brings up two other points:
Would there be a difference between the single-throat and double-throat in this application?
Does it make sense to stick on my side-draughts in this build? In this application, the 32/36 just might out-perform the Weber 40 side-draughts... According to Burton, they aren't necessary.

[d spike]

u building a pinto spike?

Always

But seriously, one hardly ever has to "build" a Pinto - once is normally quite sufficient for a stock engine for a decade or more, unless you are stingy when it comes to changing your oil, or lazy when it comes to checking your water/coolant.
For me, it's more a case of building something to stick the Pinto into...

[wagonrunner]

the fella yuh buy that from doesn't know what's a fast engine.
an NA RB20, sigh.......................
even an RB20DET on single digit boost.........................sigh again.

but back to spike's question.
at what rpm will that pinto do the 130hp?

[d spike]

the fella yuh buy that from doesn't know what's a fast engine.
an NA RB20, sigh.......................
even an RB20DET on single digit boost.........................sigh again.

but back to spike's question.
at what rpm will that pinto do the 130hp?

I didn't ask about RPM... I never do, because the Pinto herself has one answer to any question regarding RPM: not past 8000 RPM!
The Pinto has a built-in rev-limiter - unbalanced con-rods!
There are enterprising fellers who use a grinder and a sensitive scale to balance their connecting rods perfectly (yes, it's that simple) only to find out the hard way why the good Lord at Ford didn't do it - the bottom-end can fail over 8000 RPM.
To cross that threshold one has to replace the crankshaft at least... and as I have said, I am "El Cheapo", so my builds are based on a stock engine. (I also have a lazy streak, remember? )

[NOMOSS]

NOMOSS, engage in a little bench racing on this topic when you have the time...
I bought a 2-litre Pinto and type C gearbox (the one we call the "1600" gearbox) for $500 from a young 'un who wanted a "fast" engine for his project car.

That

"fast" engine

remark burned a hole in my soul, I can tell you...
Then one reads stuff like this:

That Pinto will surprise you...

Spike u starting 2 frighten me now...take care u aint over raise Bob expectations....as biased as everbody know me be....those jappo engines producing power galore ...they only falling down in longevity and because plenty tuners dont have they act 2 gether....and the good ones overdoing it with stretching the stock block and internals...yes i reluctantly admit ...a properly tuned sr20 is a far superior candidate than a 2000 ford...

Well, I am seriously thinking of an appropriate response.
The Escort that I was going to drop the Kent into...? I was thinking of dropping that $500 Pinto into it and showing it to be at least the equivalent of whatever modern jappo her previous owner chooses to run... and do it "El Cheapo" style, for fellahs who like cars but think they can't afford them...

First, the Pinto. She was running, but she certainly couldn't go anywhere near her potential...
First, she was fitted with the original T-type exhaust manifold - a serious power-takeaway there.
Then she was being made to breathe through a single-throat Weber - so she couldn't develop any top-end speed...
Which was a good thing, as her flywheel was bolted onto the crankshaft with AUTOMATIC RING-GEAR BOLTS!!!! If she had developed any real torque, that flywheel would have torn those bolts like old cheese...
So then I opened up the old girl...
...and found the block's water-jacket area was so full of rust and scale, water could not pass. I had to sit down with a couple of old screwdrivers and a garden hose and scrape and poke for an entire afternoon. The amount of stuff that came out of that block was able to fill a good-sized pothole in the old garage floor!

The fact that this old girl still ran was yet another small testament to the rep of the 2-litre Pinto.

Now, the opposition.
I want to run this girl at Solodex (and give the Viva her long-awaited sabbatical) and just annoy people who think "new=better"
I understand that her previous owner has got her "fast" replacement - an RB20... approximately 130hp.

130hp????
This Pinto with extractors, 32/36 Weber, and a shaved head should be able to do a similar number, not so?

So that's next year's project.
(In between finishing the house and organizing the estate. )


What else can be done to this build?
I would prefer to keep the type C gearbox (to keep spending down) but can it take this type of running? And if it can, how much more can it take, within reason?

Type C gearbox Gear ratios:
First 3.58:1
Second 2.01:1
Third 1.40:1
Fourth 1.00:1

The "2000" gearbox (the Type B gearbox)
Type B gearbox Gear ratios:
First 3.65:1
Second 1.97:1
Third 1.37:1
Fourth 1.00:1

Exhaust pipe... how small (cheap) can I go before I start inhibiting the flow? "A little choke gives it torque", so does this matter? Remember, Solodex requires more low-end torque.
That brings up two other points:
Would there be a difference between the single-throat and double-throat in this application?
Does it make sense to stick on my side-draughts in this build? In this application, the 32/36 just might out-perform the Weber 40 side-draughts... According to Burton, they aren't necessary.

put in the extractors with 2 inch pipe ,twin side draughts ,remember my escort?well you should get same performance as for the gearbox as long as you dont fierce clutch it on the pulloff you should be good to go for quite a while

[d spike]

Leaving now to finish putting the final touches on one 2-litre Pinto (my bush ride) and to drop in another 2-litre Pinto back into a Cortina... all before nightfall.

My remarks before I return to this bench racing seat:
As far as leaving the bottom end alone (my cheap, lazy-arsed attitude, yeah yeah yeah I know) this limits the power the Pinto can push out - somewhere around 150hp, I think.
That's why I'm trying to rattle NOMOSS' cage, as this is one of his fields. (Nuthin beats free advice )

I have no problem building an engine to this point, it's cheap, reliable, and as far as fast is concerned, I'll wait for NOMOSS to pass judgement on such a build.

[wagonrunner]

I'm booking a cutass for the wagon.
At 130hp, you'd be almost 2x it's power output, so should be easy to apply.

There's always more to me asking about rpm, than how high it can swing.
I barely cross 6000 mehself, though the wagon's engine has made it to 7500 on the dyno.

[NOMOSS]

the fella yuh buy that from doesn't know what's a fast engine.
an NA RB20, sigh.......................
even an RB20DET on single digit boost.........................sigh again.

but back to spike's question.
at what rpm will that pinto do the 130hp?

I didn't ask about RPM... I never do, because the Pinto herself has one answer to any question regarding RPM: not past 8000 RPM!
The Pinto has a built-in rev-limiter - unbalanced con-rods!
There are enterprising fellers who use a grinder and a sensitive scale to balance their connecting rods perfectly (yes, it's that simple) only to find out the hard way why the good Lord at Ford didn't do it - the bottom-end can fail over 8000 RPM.
To cross that threshold one has to replace the crankshaft at least... and as I have said, I am "El Cheapo", so my builds are based on a stock engine. (I also have a lazy streak, remember? )

Actually its the area just before the small end of the rod that fails.The crank is bullet proof.Show me a ford 2litre pinto crank that was ever broken,the stock crank can safely rev to 10,000 providing one has proper rods,..but .. the engine does not reall do any better at these high revs as far as power production is concerned.The head design limits flow .so 8000 to 8500 is about the realistic operating rpm for that head.Serious guys use a modified sierra head or mess with the chamber and port shape of the cortina heads to get them to operate well at high rps ,The fins are great at that .They turbo those pintos and do low 8's in the quarter mile

[d spike]

put in the extractors with 2 inch pipe ,twin side draughts ,remember my escort?well you should get same performance as for the gearbox as long as you dont fierce clutch it on the pulloff you should be good to go for quite a while

Yuh SURE???
AH ornnn like boil corn, den...

Does it make sense to stick on my side-draughts in this build? In this application, the 32/36 just might out-perform the Weber 40 side-draughts... According to Burton, they aren't necessary.

This is where I need your brain-box to get in gear. Solodex is low-end, and street is top-end. I want the car to perform well in both areas! (Solodex has corners Nigie, so don't say' "stick a V8 in it" eh)
Wouldn't the side-draughts under-perform at Solodex?
I have no problem bolting them on when not at dex.
(Quick, give us an answer before I have to scram!)

[NOMOSS]

Leaving now to finish putting the final touches on one 2-litre Pinto (my bush ride) and to drop in another 2-litre Pinto back into a Cortina... all before nightfall.

My remarks before I return to this bench racing seat:
As far as leaving the bottom end alone (my cheap, lazy-arsed attitude, yeah yeah yeah I know) this limits the power the Pinto can push out - somewhere around 150hp, I think.
That's why I'm trying to rattle NOMOSS' cage, as this is one of his fields. (Nuthin beats free advice )

I have no problem building an engine to this point, it's cheap, reliable, and as far as fast is concerned, I'll wait for NOMOSS to pass judgement on such a build.

Read DES HAMILL'S ..HOW TO MODIFY FORD SOHC ENGINES ,you could have a look at my copy .He has some cheapo builds based around but not limited to the use of stock parts.With a good cam ,a die grinder,and some time 180 bhp is not impossible.More than that you have to get rods pistons valves hardened bearings etc

[NOMOSS]

put in the extractors with 2 inch pipe ,twin side draughts ,remember my escort?well you should get same performance as for the gearbox as long as you dont fierce clutch it on the pulloff you should be good to go for quite a while

Yuh SURE???
AH ornnn like boil corn, den...

Does it make sense to stick on my side-draughts in this build? In this application, the 32/36 just might out-perform the Weber 40 side-draughts... According to Burton, they aren't necessary.

This is where I need your brain-box to get in gear. Solodex is low-end, and street is top-end. I want the car to perform well in both areas! (Solodex has corners Nigie, so don't say' "stick a V8 in it" eh)
Wouldn't the side-draughts under-perform at Solodex?
I have no problem bolting them on when not at dex.
(Quick, give us an answer before I have to scram!)

side draughts will tear that viva a new arsehole over the 32/36 just like my IDF's
My escort was getting about 125 - 130 bhp and you know what she had thats about 15 more bhp than the ford wagon in its present state.Acceleration is way better ,top end remains about the same though

[NOMOSS]

put in the extractors with 2 inch pipe ,twin side draughts ,remember my escort?well you should get same performance as for the gearbox as long as you dont fierce clutch it on the pulloff you should be good to go for quite a while

Yuh SURE???
AH ornnn like boil corn, den...

Does it make sense to stick on my side-draughts in this build? In this application, the 32/36 just might out-perform the Weber 40 side-draughts... According to Burton, they aren't necessary.

This is where I need your brain-box to get in gear. Solodex is low-end, and street is top-end. I want the car to perform well in both areas! (Solodex has corners Nigie, so don't say' "stick a V8 in it" eh)
Wouldn't the side-draughts under-perform at Solodex?
I have no problem bolting them on when not at dex.
(Quick, give us an answer before I have to scram!)

the princess town boys used to race 2.0 pintos in full race trim using 1.6 corty boxes and do high 13's

[d spike]

I'm booking a cutass for the wagon.
At 130hp, you'd be almost 2x it's power output, so should be easy to apply.

There's always more to me asking about rpm, than how high it can swing.
I barely cross 6000 mehself, though the wagon's engine has made it to 7500 on the dyno.

Cutarse done book already since the Kent... but yuh never collected...
The Viva has a stock 2-litre that wiped a few Wingroads (One even asked if it was for sale!!!) and I want to clean it up for next season's running... before I put in the extractors (I don't want to hear "dat eh stock... if it wuz stock yuh couldn' beat meh")

In fact, the grey Cortina wagon (2-litre Pinto, 32/36 Weber, extractors) would probably deliver yuh cutarse fuh yuh if yuh anxious about getting it early


After all that ol' talk, we still pals right? (Ah need to cast mih driveway )
Seriously, it looks like I won't be able to tackle that until the week following New Year's... and I know you will be busy then. We will have to reorganize and regroup.

[d spike]

side draughts will tear that viva a new arsehole over the 32/36 just like my IDF's
My escort was getting about 125 - 130 bhp and you know what she had thats about 15 more bhp than the ford wagon in its present state.Acceleration is way better ,top end remains about the same though

Better acceleration is perfect for Solodex (I assume that means better low-end torque), so it looks like I will be needing to locate a manifold for my 40 Webers.

It's the Escort that I'm focusing on though. I figure it's lighter than the Viva (isn't it shorter too?) and might be the better platform.

Read DES HAMILL'S ..HOW TO MODIFY FORD SOHC ENGINES ,you could have a look at my copy .He has some cheapo builds based around but not limited to the use of stock parts.With a good cam ,a die grinder,and some time 180 bhp is not impossible.More than that you have to get rods pistons valves hardened bearings etc

180hp??!?!?!!
Heh heh heh hehhh...

MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

the princess town boys used to race 2.0 pintos in full race trim using 1.6 corty boxes and do high 13's

Niceness...

[Sanctifier]

...130hp????
This Pinto with extractors, 32/36 Weber, and a shaved head should be able to do a similar number, not so?

IIRC the Escort RS2000 got 110 bhp from a new Pinto + OEM "extractors", head & cam.

... Solodex is low-end, and street is top-end. I want the car to perform well in both areas! (Solodex has corners Nigie, so don't say' "stick a V8 in it" eh)
Wouldn't the side-draughts under-perform at Solodex?
I have no problem bolting them on when not at dex.

I've never run at 'dex, so I bow to experience... but I've read that a GOOD 'dex setup will allow you to complete the course in 1st & 2nd gear only. Having to waste time to change to 3rd.. and then back down... is to loose! Isn't that a recipe for a pretty high RPM build?

[wagonrunner]

I've never run at 'dex, so I bow to experience... but I've read that a GOOD 'dex setup will allow you to complete the course in 1st & 2nd gear only. Having to waste time to change to 3rd.. and then back down... is to loose! Isn't that a recipe for a pretty high RPM build?

I'm no expert either, and my experience is shoddy as hell.

It's not so much a matter of being high revving. yes if you got the torque to spare before the next second to the corner it helps. But you'll be driving the car, where you have usable torque.
no sense being at 7000, when you'd have gotten more by going up a gear and being at 5000.
as for the shifting, with practice you learn where / how to do it, so every time you press the pedal you move as fast as possible.

I've tasted 4th in the wagon, running the karting track at a bycc

After all that ol' talk, we still pals right? (Ah need to cast mih driveway )

a lil blag clearing up where i lie in the grand scheme of things would never make me unfriend someone.
somedays you're the dog, somedays you're the hydrant. the times when you're the pee should never even be recalled.

[king bob]

lol. finances spike finances. if when i get money it's still here then heck yh

Boy, do I know that song...

Anybody here knows where I could get a side-draughts' manifold for the 2-litre Pinto?

yh and d boss hit me some wicked short pay 2day

[king bob]

well all things on track ppl xmas day i goin an be patchin meh hunter

[d spike]

I've never run at 'dex, so I bow to experience... but I've read that a GOOD 'dex setup will allow you to complete the course in 1st & 2nd gear only. Having to waste time to change to 3rd.. and then back down... is to loose! Isn't that a recipe for a pretty high RPM build?

I'm no expert either, and my experience is shoddy as hell.

It's not so much a matter of being high revving. yes if you got the torque to spare before the next second to the corner it helps. But you'll be driving the car, where you have usable torque.
no sense being at 7000, when you'd have gotten more by going up a gear and being at 5000.
as for the shifting, with practice you learn where / how to do it, so every time you press the pedal you move as fast as possible.

I've tasted 4th in the wagon, running the karting track at a bycc

Having to waste time to change to 3rd.. and then back down... It isn't "wasting time" if it allows you to stay within your 'power-band'. (If one needs that much time to change gears, then dex isn't for you )

After all that ol' talk, we still pals right? (Ah need to cast mih driveway )

a lil blag clearing up where i lie in the grand scheme of things would never make me unfriend someone.
somedays you're the dog, somedays you're the hydrant. the times when you're the pee should never even be recalled.

[NOMOSS]

...130hp????
This Pinto with extractors, 32/36 Weber, and a shaved head should be able to do a similar number, not so?

IIRC the Escort RS2000 got 110 bhp from a new Pinto + OEM "extractors", head & cam.

... Solodex is low-end, and street is top-end. I want the car to perform well in both areas! (Solodex has corners Nigie, so don't say' "stick a V8 in it" eh)
Wouldn't the side-draughts under-perform at Solodex?
I have no problem bolting them on when not at dex.

I've never run at 'dex, so I bow to experience... but I've read that a GOOD 'dex setup will allow you to complete the course in 1st & 2nd gear only. Having to waste time to change to 3rd.. and then back down... is to loose! Isn't that a recipe for a pretty high RPM build?

the rs200 from the factory gave 110 bhp It did not have full extractors but a cast iron better than stock exhaust manifold and certainly did not have a pair of 44 idf webbers and I ran the same rs200 cam which had 273 degrees duration as compared to around 265 for stock cortina.With a shaved head and and 32/26 about 100 to 110 on a cold day

[d spike]

yh and d boss hit me some wicked short pay 2day

Gormmm... on the eve of Christmas too... He sounds like a real Scrooge...

well all things on track ppl xmas day i goin an be patchin meh hunter

You got a welding unit borrowed (gas/MIG)? Good going! Or are ye a-going to try using arc with lil' wee rods? (If so, I'd love to hear how that turns out!)

[king bob]

well i bought 12gauge rode (the ones recommended) and i usin d arc welder, that is if my dad bring back my welding mask

[d spike]

well i bought 12gauge rode (the ones recommended) and i usin d arc welder, that is if my dad bring back my welding mask

Hope you post pics...

[NOMOSS]

well i bought 12gauge rode (the ones recommended) and i usin d arc welder, that is if my dad bring back my welding mask

Hope you post pics...

yes please post some pics,Bacl in the 80's there I saw a special small head and small rods in hot rod mag which was used for spot welding sheet metal I suppose that eas the forerunner of the Mig welder for diy ers.I wasnt to se how it comes out

[king bob]

no pics 2 day, my dad nw tell me he wah me go help him wid some wrk -_-
epic -_-