Old School Projects

[wagonrunner]

no det no care.
kidding.

the buzzard already tell yuh what to look for.

[d spike]

the buzzard already tell yuh what to look for.

Ford Pinto 2 litre

Cheapest

If you are right in the bargain basement department of tuning, then there's not an awful lot to get excited about. However, the news is not all bad- the standard 32/36 DGAV is a good carb and capable of handling a fair amount of extra power.

Assuming you don't have to change carbs or engines then all the mods here fall into the Saturday afternoon "bolt on" category. Start by fitting a new set of NGK spark plugs and NGK plug leads, new distributor cap, and rotor. Once you've done this get down to a rolling road dynamometer and get the whole thing set up properly.

As you can see, what I'm really talking about is making sure your engine is at the peak of it's tune in more or less standard condition. A standard 2 litre engine can be expected to push out a maximum of 100-102 BHP at the flywheel at 5,500 rpm. If yours isn't, then try a compression check to make sure all four cylinders are up to scratch. It is essential to make sure that your engine is in as good a condition as possible at this stage before going on to do any further tuning. Otherwise you are just wasting your money and risk doing some permanent ( and expensive ) damage in a short period of time. If your engine is okay, then the simple changes I've talked about so far should net you a couple of extra horsepower for your trouble.

Before we move on up the spending ladder, a word or two about buying second-hand tuning equipment. If you are thinking about getting a cheap pair of sidedraughts for instance, do check that they have the correct choke sizes, emulsion tubes, jets etc. otherwise you will find yourself spending more than you paid for the carbs to get them set up properly.

Scouring your local scrapyards can save you a lot of money for sure and one of the things to look out for is an RS 2000 exhaust manifold (2-2-1 headers/extractors!). This will give you up to 5 BHP extra on a good engine with no other changes. If you combine this with a free flow exhaust system then up to 7 BHP extra can be gained.

Cheap

Assuming your local scrappy isn't awash with RS 2000's or you don't fancy the hassle, dirt and danger of clambering over five-high stacks of battered bodyshells, the Oselli reckon you should get one of their exhaust manifolds and systems, with this you can expect to gain 10-12 BHP. So presuming you didn't spend all your money in the first stage you should be able to see something like a genuine 115 BHP under your right foot.

Average

Now we are starting to get into some serious stuff as it is time to take the head off. If you are using a single downdraft Weber carb then shave the head to stage 1 specification with 9.5:1 compression... and combined with Oselli's AL 32/33 camshaft this should see the BHP figure climb into the high one-twenties, say 128 as a good figure to aim for.
(Actually, I have been told that stock Pinto heads can take up to 25 thou of shaving before you have to change your valves, springs and followers, but this much in one go for a beginner might not be a good idea. Try 18 or 20 thou... and use the toilet before you drive it!)

Cam lubrication has always been a problem with this engine so remember to change the oil and filter regularly and change the spray bar every 12,000 miles. When fitting the new spray bar make sure you use the special short bolt in the centre mounting, otherwise you can block off the oil way. If you fit an uprated oil pump you can find the rocker cover filling up with oil unless you fit a flow restricter in the supply side.

Nothing to do with lubrication but you should also reckon on changing the cam belt every 24,000 miles.
(The beauty of the 2 litre is that the valves don't hit the pistons, so a burst timing-belt doesn't bend valves... it just means refitting a new belt and timing the engine on the side of the road... take de people dem advice - change the belt when required, not when it bus'.)

Expensive

Carburettors come next... a pair of 45 DCOE sidedraught Webers. Don't use twin 40 DCOE's, as a good Pinto needs 34 mm diameter chokes and the largest you can get in 40 DCOE's is 33 mm. For really high horsepower applications twin 48 DCOE's will be required. When fitting twin sidedraughts always use one of the twin throttle cable set ups. With these you should be enjoying about 140 BHP.

[king bob]

nah spike, d reason i asked cus i saw a bag load ah dem ting on sale.

[d spike]

nah spike, d reason i asked cus i saw a bag load ah dem ting on sale.

Those in-line 6s are powerful... but heavy, and require cutting and rebuilding the firewall and transmission tunnel.
It has been done, but is it worth it?
Unless you know what you're doing, it's easy to muck it up and end up with an unfinished project that is chopped too badly to continue or sell... or a badly finished death-trap that is simply ugly to look at, awkward to handle, and dangerous to sit in while in motion - as it could "transformer-style" fold-up/"CKD-style" fall apart... (you can ALWAYS tell the latter... its owner invariably describes it as "bess" )

Even fellahs with years of experience can (and do) screw up a perfectly good car in this fashion.

To be fair, there are fellows who do a damned fine job... the green Hunter with a V8 from Barrackpore, used to run a 280C engine. It was well done and strong.

Then there is the choice of engine. A jappo engine in a Hunter???? I begrudgingly admire an SR in a Hunter that I know of, but that was WELL DONE by its owner.

I would not advise you to cut the firewall - unless it is too badly rotted... and this would be a clear sign of fatigue, in which case, you WOULDN'T want to put a heavy, powerful engine in it.
You implied the engines were cheap... what do you call cheap? How much would parts/accessories cost you? A single blow-out valve could easily cost you more than a second-hand Pinto engine. These are not brand-new engines you are talking about... how much would an engine kit cost? A bearing or gasket?
If you want to spend your money, go ahead, it's your money... but I can guarantee you that THAT is exactly what you will end up doing - spending money.
Just getting those engines tweaked and tuned costs money (just stand up behind any group at a car-show and listen to all the jappo-owners brag about how much money they spent... personally, I translate the phrase "I just spent X dollars on..." as meaning "I just turn the steering-wheel. I don't know squat about..."

Tell me... how much do you wish to spend on an engine + gearbox?
(By the way, I will get back to you re Hunter gearbox in the week.)

Cheers

[cinco]

i going to get cuss from spike
but if you do want to change the engine a 12a engine and box are relatively cheap and give you a nice HP increase without the weight

[nigie]

i going to get cuss from spike
but if you do want to change the engine a 12a engine and box are relatively cheap and give you a nice HP increase without the weight

spike and about 150 people will cuss u cinco....
man put a "real" engine in the car ...if u want a fun car ....if its daily driver business u looking 4 ....a lil jappo engine will wuk.....

[cinco]

real engine?
it is a 40 yr old car and he has a limited budget
you think he can brace that car for the torque of anything more than a lil four cylinder?

[nigie]

Yea since we on FORDs...TINA Progressing..

[cinco]

this is reason enough to go rotary
disclaimer 13brew not 12a

[d spike]

i going to get cuss from spike
but if you do want to change the engine a 12a engine and box are relatively cheap and give you a nice HP increase without the weight

Put a rotary in a Hunter????

Why not just put in a motorcycle engine an' done de talk?

spike and about 150 people will cuss u cinco....
man put a "real" engine in the car ...if u want a fun car ....

The front of the Hunter is quite strong (once it is still in good condition and hasn't been chopped) and can take the jamming of a V8 (if you want to slam it around, you will have to strengthen the front and rear suspension though) but this requires firewall modification... as far as "cheap" and "least work" goes ('bang' for 'buck'), you can't beat the Pinto.

real engine?
it is a 40 yr old car and he has a limited budget
you think he can brace that car for the torque of anything more than a lil four cylinder?

My dear boy, this is not some recycled bean can jappo lawn-mower we're talking about... this is a real motor-car... 40 years old? She's more in her prime than most jappo autos half her age...


Kingbob, seriously, there is an old maxim that holds true: you can only achieve two of these three - performance, cheapness, reliability.
However, you can attain acceptable levels of each in your project.
A Hunter with a V8 is a beast - only jappo freaks will claim otherwise (and with mods that are easily available in the U.S. of A. you will whip every last one of them on the drag strip, no matter what hoochery they have under their bonnet... but this requires chopping a major structural member of the car to put in a heavy engine - if you do it badly, your ride becomes a one-way ticket to the hereafter... not exactly a first-time project for a young amateur. Also, with the wrong advice regarding engine, you could end up spending mucho dollars on a fancy boat anchor... and if you want to piss on any jappo whose owner knows how to tune his expensive hamster-wheel (and can afford to) then you WILL have to spend money - how much depends on your sources and advisers. And this massive creature under your hood radically affects the balance (and thus handling performance) of your ride. Don't expect to shine much if the road curves much.

A rotary is a beautiful thing, a glorious thing... whose power-to-weight ratio is fantastic... but unless you know a good rotary mechanic who owes you his life, prepare to sell a few organs. Two words: Apex seals and Torque.

Pintos cost a couple hundred dollars, the repair, maintenance and mods can be done by an amateur for very little cash. Lighter than a stock V8, it can be easily modded to out-perform it (as a daily driver, fuel efficiency, cornering and overall handling in the Hunter). While the V8 can attain heights on the dyno that 4-bangers can only envy, somebody has got to take it there - and pay for it. (How many high performance V8s are there on our roads, anyway?) To dress up a Pinto to where it can spank a modded jappo is cheaper than either the cost of modding that engine or modding a V8.

[king bob]

what's the price on a pinto engine and gb?

[MG Man]

ten meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelion dollaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[king bob]

ahahahahahha lol

[d spike]

Recently I paid $500 for a 2 litre and gearbox... There have been cheaper, but those were lucky shots... an expensive unit might cost $2500... a modded engine is right now up for sale at $4000.
You need to keep your eyes open and your feelers out to get good deals - they don't drop from the sky. Other than that you need to scour scrapyards - you'd be surprised what folks throw away.
Will send you a contact for a favourite haunt of mine. (PM sent)

Just remember, a cheap scrapyard engine is quite different to a cheap engine. A scrapyard dealer selling a working engine by itself WILL judge its value and how much he can get for it far more intensely than the old lady who just wants to get the old Cortina (that doubles as a fowl-coop) out of her yard... I know two Cortinas of the latter category that were sold ($800 and $500 respectively) that had great "no-work-required" engines and drivetrains.

You could easily pay $1500 for a unit that will need rings soon, for example. (That isn't a problem itself, as the rings and bearings are available and cheap at Gayah's and elsewhere... just hone the cylinders gently and you are on your way.) Build a relationship with your scrapyard dealer, and don't haggle prices (too much) with him. Once he starts seeing you as a serious builder who returns often for his business, his prices for you will reflect his respect. (Most old fellahs want to see the cars of their youth on the road again.)

You can buy and rebuild a Pinto for less money than most... Let the Rotary Guy call one of his "cheap" prices, and you will see what I mean.

[nigie]

Spike u have a fairy God father....with those prices....do u know where i can get a good gearbox for a 2000 ford

[d spike]

Spike u have a fairy God father....with those prices....do u know where i can get a good gearbox for a 2000 ford

....do u know where i can get a pair of cylinder heads for a 302 Ford?




Bad news, Kingbob. The Hunter engine and gearbox in South that was up for grabs (for free ) has fallen prey to iron collectors.
Those blasted scavengers can't see a hunk of metal anywhere without wanting to chop it up n' melt it down. It is because of them that so many works of art have been destroyed... lost forever to cheap scroungers like me ... lightened flywheels, specialized manifolds, perfectly damn good blocks and heads... there was a flywheel that was made for the Kent that could take the high-torque starter (the later model that came with the last Cortinas) allowing one to utilize higher compression, dat gorn... The only way to find stuff like this is to go overseas and beg...

There is a guy in Princes Town (I think) who is considered the "Hunter Specialist". He drives a blue Hunter that is badged as a Vogue. Partsman (trinituner name) in Rio Claro might be able to help you - but you have to be able to identify the box. Between these two, you should be able to locate release bearing, clutch fork, clutch and pressure plate as well. The driveshaft end is the same as the Pinto 2 litre and automatic. (That is something you already have if you plan to push the Pinto )

[king bob]

scrap men again inno (epic stupes). same ting happend by me d exact day after the guy literally gave d gb away i went by him looking 4 1, bt @ spike i called d guy and he gave me another numb 2 call bt i got tru, he said call in 2mrw

[wagonrunner]

hoping you get through with everything bob

[d spike]

scrap men again inno (epic stupes). same ting happend by me d exact day after the guy literally gave d gb away i went by him looking 4 1, bt @ spike i called d guy and he gave me another numb 2 call bt i got tru, he said call in 2mrw

Nice. Make sure your brakes are working...

Take a look at these (especially the second one). Bear in mind that the Chevy is a V8, while the other two are "four-bangers"... Notice that while he can pull away on the straight, he can't shake them off or outrun them easily...

look what a FORD 1.6l does to a vauxhall 2.3 and a 351 chevy
http://youtu.be/kY5zdnGvT0c
http://youtu.be/kDAK4jBKmow

[nigie]

Take a look at these (especially the second one). Bear in mind that the Chevy is a V8, while the other two are "four-bangers"... Notice that while he can pull away on the straight, he can't shake them off or outrun them easily...

Also notice that the v8 was leading the race for 99.61% of the time untill they were out of sight of the camera for 4 seconds (behind trees) and something happened...then camaro mystically lost control....

[king bob]

yh i was plannin 2 scrap d current brakes system and put a nissan system

[king bob]

lol yh i noticed.
THE BOB WILL FOREVER RESPECT A 1.6
on a lesser note the hunter engine up 4 grabs, (petty cash or trade) it needs timing (to the best of my knowledge)

[d spike]

lol yh i noticed.
THE BOB WILL FOREVER RESPECT A 1.6
on a lesser note the hunter engine up 4 grabs, (petty cash or trade) it needs timing (to the best of my knowledge)

That's a 1.6 BDA, eh... a helluva different beastie to the stock Kent (converted to OHDC belt drive, really just a fantastic cylinder head swap)
Your Hunter engine produces more torque than many engines of its era and size... Most likely just needs the distributor to shift to the right spot as you never took the timing-chain off.

[nigie]

Do we really need fender flares in non truck applications?...most people I asked shelled out that $$$$$$ just for a particular look...one or two said they needed 2 put a wider tyre below the car but most loved the look

What are fender flares? Why buy fender flares?

Fender flares simply extend the fender lip outward. They give your car a custom wide-body look that improves the appearance of your car. Fender flares are light, simple and relatively inexpensive.

nothing mentioned about handling there...hummm
anyways ..flares look noice.......

[d spike]

lol yh i noticed.
THE BOB WILL FOREVER RESPECT A 1.6
on a lesser note the hunter engine up 4 grabs, (petty cash or trade) it needs timing (to the best of my knowledge)

That's a 1.6 BDA, eh... a helluva different beastie to the stock Kent (converted to OHDC belt drive, really just a fantastic cylinder head swap)

The BDA series
Cosworth increased its association with Ford in 1969, by developing a double overhead camshaft (DOHC) 16-valve inline four cylinder engine for road use in the Ford Escort. Working from the Kent block, Cosworth created a 1,601 cubic centimetres (97.7 cu in) for homologation purposes. The camshafts were driven by a toothed belt, hence the name BDA, literally meaning "Belt Drive, A type". Running in Group 2 and Group 4 on either rallying or touring car racing, this engine could be enlarged to a maximum of 2,000 cubic centimetres (122.0 cu in). The nominal homologation at 1,601 cubic centimetres (97.7 cu in) capacity meant that BDA-engined cars competed in what was usually the top class (1600 cc and up) so were eligible for absolute victories rather than class wins.

Take a look at these (especially the second one). Bear in mind that the Chevy is a V8, while the other two are "four-bangers"... Notice that while he can pull away on the straight, he can't shake them off or outrun them easily...

Also notice that the v8 was leading the race for 99.61% of the time untill they were out of sight of the camera for 4 seconds (behind trees) and something happened...then camaro mystically lost control....

Bear in mind that there were other V8s in the race (including a V8 in an Escort)... the BDA Escort and the Vauxhall clearly whipping them soundly...
That "something" that " happened" to the Camaro, that "mystical loss of control", is the result of a not-rare phenomenon that is referred to locally as "gettin' ah cutarse".

THE BOB WILL FOREVER RESPECT A 1.6
on a lesser note the hunter engine up 4 grabs, (petty cash or trade) it needs timing (to the best of my knowledge)

Are you sure you want to part company with that engine just yet? Take a look at the following engine specs... note especially how the Hunter engine compares torque-wise with the stock Pinto... and the unmodded BDA is only 6 lb-ft of torque more... then think of the power-to-weight ratio of that little monster you wish to discard...

Hunter 73 hp, 100 lb-ft torque

Cortina Pinto 97 hp, 111 lb-ft torque

Kent 75 hp, 97 lb-ft torque

Kent BDA 115 hp, 106 lb-ft torque

[NOMOSS]

Projects associated with NOMOSS


1964 FORD CORSAIR









GREY HUNTER














BLUE HUNTER







Diff was being installed ,brakes were disconnected ,Uclamps were cut and welded to ascertain length.. IT was a work in progress










Burnout with ford 2.0l stock cam ,Weber IDF's 44 X 2
Current Engine Nissan SR 20 ,I hate to say it but it kicks arse bigtime

Coming soon ..We plan to kidnap DSPIKE'S red Vauxhall and overhaul it.There will be lots a pics of the car and the big red rice-eater (probably in tears )..He will miss the rust and oxidized paint and worst of all he'll have to wash and polish it regularly.

[king bob]

well i called the guy today and he said call him nex fri cus he hav 2 go pick up a coutrina, and i gettin it 4 a bess price.
so keepin in the old school tuner i may as well pass the engine 2 someone who needs it.

[d spike]

well i called the guy today and he said call him nex fri cus he hav 2 go pick up a coutrina, and i gettin it 4 a bess price.
so keepin in the old school tuner i may as well pass the engine 2 someone who needs it.

Okay, that sounds decent. If the engine is going to be stored outside, just keep it off the ground on blocks, then pour oil into the spark-plug holes and lightly turn in the plugs.

Take a look at the Hunters posted above by NOMOSS... hope they give you some inspiration.

[d spike]

Projects associated with NOMOSS



Burnout with ford 2.0l stock cam ,Weber IDF's 44 X 2
Current Engine Nissan SR 20 ,I hate to say it but it kicks arse bigtime

Current Engine Nissan SR 20

NOMOSS, I still eh forgive allyuh fuh dat evilness allyuh wuk dey, eh...

How does the ess-arr's performance compare to the Pinto's?

Coming soon ..We plan to kidnap DSPIKE'S red Vauxhall and overhaul it.There will be lots a pics of the car and the big red rice-eater (probably in tears )..He will miss the rust and oxidized paint and worst of all he'll have to wash and polish it regularly.

:evil:
Is only duttyness like yuh dat does fraid ah lil water an soap, eh.

[NOMOSS]

ANYWAYS .....RESTO COMMENCING JAN 2012....STAY TUNNED....















Yeah ...this car is an excellent candidate for a REAL engine..