SRX-1 - FD 3rdGen RX7 with SR20DET - 10.5 & 550whp

[Mr. Go Slow]

dude no offense but u seriously sound like a troll and thank goodness we're not stupid little fools to start a thread war but it sounds u really want to dwell in it though. a rotary would never last on your hands as a daily driver and there are guys with there 3rd gens who make high speeds with their stock engines on some 1st world freeways? getting info is sure one helluva ting. Peace.

Who me ? Troll Not at all ...

Fact is I love a 3rd gen, I'm just not able with the rotary hassles ... Before I got the Trueno I PM'ed 3rdgenrx7 about the viability of a daily driver 3rd gen and he basically told me to get something else ...

Sure a rotary is a fine engine, but the gas consumption & reliability sucks balls ... The 3rd gen is a sweet platform, light, superb handling and stylish to boot, so I can't understand the hostility over making a reliable and powerful 3rd gen for cheap as the alternative seems to be to suffer ....

That was my point, not trolling at all ...

[dragzster]

^^^true, the rotary seals of yesteryears are not like the newer ones these days. The new ones are made to take the wear and tear and last much longer. Gas consumption I agree is a lot and rivals that of many high cc V6 engines so I wouldn't debate that and ofcourse the rotary after a couple thousand miles I believe needs to be topped up with a quart of oil so in that respect it requires more effort and work than say an equally powered turbocharged 4-cylinder or NA V6. Sorry for the mix up otherwise.

[Mr. Go Slow]

^^^true, the rotary seals of yesteryears are not like the newer ones these days. The new ones are made to take the wear and tear and last much longer. Gas consumption I agree is a lot and rivals that of many high cc V6 engines so I wouldn't debate that and ofcourse the rotary after a couple thousand miles I believe needs to be topped up with a quart of oil so in that respect it requires more effort and work than say an equally powered turbocharged 4-cylinder or NA V6. Sorry for the mix up otherwise.

No scene ... So basically being diligent with the oil (which I am anyway) and the newer seals (what brand? have a link?) will give me a decent powerplant that can take some licks if I hear you correctly? (upgraded cooling as well of course)

Is a 2nd gen (car & powerplant) as viable a project as the 3rd gen?

Thanks for the info ...

[MaelstroM]

Mr Go Slow.
I can understand your point about reliability but not for the reason u probably have in mind.
Most cars in Trinidad are not well tuned and I have said before and I'll say again because I still think that it remains very true that a well tuned rotary will last with any well tuned piston engine, but an un-tuned one will go in a second...literally....which is prob why all these rumours started in the first place.

And well I dont have a 3rd gen but I think the issue here is the engine which I do have in my 1st gen and I dynoed at 351 rwhp@14psi on pump gas which is what I run everyday.I pull 7500 on the road and 8600 in drags. Ask Audie (dyno guy) for confirmation. I do have a printout home of it.
I built my engine in july 2003 and I never had to do ANYTHING to it since then...honestly.
AFR is 10.8 (which is generally considered conservative)
My tuner (also my cousin) Matt Leicher (www.hitman.hm) tunes a lot of cars making that power. Check his site for confirmation.
Most of his tuned cars are street cars as well.

Rotaries suck at gas consumption and oil consumption hence maintenance is high and necessary....these are not reliability issues tho and my guess is that the guy (being a drag-racer) doesnt care too highly for mpg figures.

CA19,
The same procedure can be done for a 13B s6 engine.
I run stock (ie unported engine) with stock seals(ie OEM Mazda) at present and as said before I never had to change out anything. This is basically the same as buying a bamboo engine. The ONLY reason I didnt go that way is that I dont like the cat-in-bag scene where u dont know what the hell you getting for your money, which holds true for ANY engine.

Anyways, having said alllll this, to each his own and if the guy has had good experiences with sr20 as well as the capability to tune them (which he obviously has), then who is to blame him.
Certainly not I, he would smoke me on the strip.

[Mr. Go Slow]

Mr Go Slow.
I can understand your point about reliability but not for the reason u probably have in mind.
Most cars in Trinidad are not well tuned and I have said before and I'll say again because I still think that it remains very true that a well tuned rotary will last with any well tuned piston engine, but an un-tuned one will go in a second...literally....which is prob why all these rumours started in the first place.

And well I dont have a 3rd gen but I think the issue here is the engine which I do have in my 1st gen and I dynoed at 351 rwhp@14psi on pump gas which is what I run everyday.I pull 7500 on the road and 8600 in drags. Ask Audie (dyno guy) for confirmation. I do have a printout home of it.
I built my engine in july 2003 and I never had to do ANYTHING to it since then...honestly.
AFR is 10.8 (which is generally considered conservative)
My tuner (also my cousin) Matt Leicher (www.hitman.hm) tunes a lot of cars making that power. Check his site for confirmation.
Most of his tuned cars are street cars as well.

Rotaries suck at gas consumption and oil consumption hence maintenance is high and necessary....these are not reliability issues tho and my guess is that the guy (being a drag-racer) doesnt care too highly for mpg figures.

CA19,
The same procedure can be done for a 13B s6 engine.
I run stock (ie unported engine) with stock seals(ie OEM Mazda) at present and as said before I never had to change out anything. This is basically the same as buying a bamboo engine. The ONLY reason I didnt go that way is that I dont like the cat-in-bag scene where u dont know what the hell you getting for your money, which holds true for ANY engine.

Anyways, having said alllll this, to each his own and if the guy has had good experiences with sr20 as well as the capability to tune them (which he obviously has), then who is to blame him.
Certainly not I, he would smoke me on the strip.

Good info there bro ... Your cousin / tuner is he local? The site is in Australia ... I'd be keen on seeing your setup as I have interest in duplicating a 3rd gen powerplant in a 1st gen (or cheap 2nd gen).

[Bezman]

hitman married his cousin or somehting..

i didnt want to start a war ebtween teh stow tuner familes (rotary vs piston) just wanted to show some nice work...

and i know about the 13b s6 engines, i see BMI and others saying that 400hp is attainable on the stock turbo system and they can be reliable with some cooling upgrades, the biggest probelm i have seen with the new series 13b's is timing, they seem to be very touchy about timing, if that spark is too late or early it blows out teh seals..

but as Mr Go Slow said, i too was talked out of buying a 3rdGen by many many people, i almost put a 2nd gen 13b in the Capri, as in a had the cash to buy it and ended up buying the CA18DET that day instead...

glad i raised a little interesting conversation

[Razkal]

OH GOD! ........must......counteract.....the....BS...that ..went one..here

much better

the swap is really well done actually..not bad...but i dont understand why to an SR20 ...that doesnt make much sense..as Maelstrom said...maybe to a 2JZ or RB26 wud be understandable....the car looks great imo...at least he kept it JDm an didnt throw in a big block inside there...that wud really have made me barf all over this thread

[Bezman]

the swap is really well done actually..not bad...but i dont understand why to an SR20 ...that doesnt make much sense..as Maelstrom said...maybe to a 2JZ or RB26 wud be understandable....the car looks great imo...at least he kept it JDm an didnt throw in a big block inside there...that wud really have made me barf all over this thread

easily answered, weight.. the 2j and rb weight about 200lbs more than the fully dressed SR..

better wieght balance in the nimble FD chassis...

[MaelstroM]

Not a problem.
Ill post up some pics as well as answer any questions u have as best I could.
Nothing impressive like what is on Matt's site, but it works.

[Razkal]

good read for the guys, who like this war, atleast when they get tired of the honda nissan fiasco...

lets continue this discussion...alot of info to be ahd from posting constructively in here...

[Razkal]

Mr. Go Slow, if ur still toggling with the idea, dont go 3rd gen power in a 1st gen, the bell housing of the 3rd gen gearbox cant fit in the 1st gen frame, u'll have to source a series 5 gearbox...and that is real pressure. series 6/7 in an FC shell is MUCH easier, almost bolt for bolt...

and the series 5 gearbox tends to break under serious power from the series6/7 engines...just ask Dale (rugrat)

[Dragsta]

Niceeeeeee

[EvoDraZ]

The centerpiece of the Mazda is Pettit Racing's three-rotor 20B engine. Pettit constructed a 20B to its Banzai Edition 3 specs with a street-ported block, reinforced studs and dowel pins, 3mm high-performance Iannetti ceramic apex seals, ported rotors and ceramic treated turbos.

Shape Shifter
By E.K. Cozzene
Straight or twisty; it's all about how you like your performance. Jeff Kiesel of San Diego would be a good person to ask about the most perplexing of crossroads--choosing between stoplight dragger or canyon carver. He knows the straight-line game, having owned an 11-second Integra and a 10-second Civic.

And as this impressive RX-7 attests, the apex is a familiar place as well. As part of TART (Triple A Race Team) Kiesel and his wicked three-rotor RX-7 spend plenty of time at play on the road race circuit and two or three days a week on the daily commute.

There are many points of interest on this high-revving Mazda, but the first thing to catch the eye is its silhouette. The car flexes an R-Magic body kit with a molded rear fender treatment from Pettit Racing, which made the RX-7 the perfect car for our "Body and Soul" issue. The installation and paint was executed by Backyard Creations of Temple City, Calif. This body configuration allows Kiesel to run mammoth wheels--17x10s in front and 17x12.5s out back. Talk about a contact patch the size of Texas. Kinesis K5 aluminum is joined by Kuhmo V700 Victoracer rubber (255/40R-17 front, 335/35R-17 rear) to maximize the Mazda's bite in the corners.

Body kits are cool, but a car can be an empty promise if there's little excitement under the hood. Kiesel kept his power promise by sending the car to Pettit Racing in Lake Park, Fla. for the ultimate Mazda rotary swap--the 20B three-rotor. Pettit constructed a 20B to its Banzai Edition 3 specs with a street-ported block, reinforced studs anddowel pins, 3mm high-performance Iannetti ceramic apex seals and ceramic treated turbos. The sequential turbo system was also configured for parallel operation so both Hitachis hit hard at the drop of the hammer.

Pettit's Cameron Worth says that by using a Link engine management system, the crew was able to hone the multitude of vacuum hoses down to just three, which simplifies installation, troubleshooting and maintenance. He was also quick to point out that the key piece in the engine installation process is Pettit's Banzai Subframe which enables the 20B to be directly bolted in place with no welding or cutting. Kiesel runs a Pettit 3-inch downpipe and an HKS exhaust system.

Getting the tri-rotor thrust to the pavement is handled by a Mazdaspeed LSD-equipped factory rear end with ACPT carbon-fiber driveshaft and a stock tranny fitted with an Advanced Clutch Technology Xtreme series clutch with an Xtreme pressure plate and organic street disc. The g-force load is controlled by the RX-7's tried-and-proven suspension. Kiesel has fortified the underpinnings with Koni shocks, Pettit sway bars and 2.25-inch race springs rated at 600 lbs in front and 400 lbs in the rear. Stopping power has been addressed with a Pettit brake upgrade front and rear.

To compete in Solo II Unlimited Street Class, a car must have the proper safety equipment. Kiesel enlisted Auto Sport Concepts (ASC) to construct a chrome-moly roll cage for the track that wasn't too invasive for street duty. Gabe Agana and Dana Czech of ASC fabricated a gem. In fact, at one point, the Mazda flexed some crazy cantilever rear shocks. The cage has been joined by the appropriate Auto Meter gauges, a Corbeau racing seat, Safe Craft fire extinguisher system, a Dave Turner quick-release steering wheel and the proper Simpson harnesses.

This RX-7 makes the most of the Mazda's racing legacy, taking a daily driven street 7 about as far down the track as you can go without trailering it to events. It's more than civil on the street, has an exotic three-rotor engine, fat fenders and all the little details that turn heads. Yes, indeed. This 7 is definitely a 10.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0 ... index.html

[EvoDraZ]

I acknowledge that the article does not have any horse power ratings on the car. i will try to find them else where. however with the war about a "good Mazda" here is an example. while i highly doubt this is a daily driver.

3 Rotors
2 Sequential Turbochargers
2.0 Liters
550 HP @ 7500 RPM
460 Lb-Ft @ 5500 RPM

thats the STOCK spec of the Banzai Rx-7. the car i posted has been modified even more with stronger apex seals, and reinforced engine components.

Building a realiable roti isnt hard. its just hard to keep it restrained. the rotary loves to be revved into the high rpms. a fav past time of mine is shifting at 7-8000RPMs on my STOCK 13b second gen rx-7 engine. the feeling and sound of the engine at full song is overwhelming.

when they do swaps its like buying aloo pie wit nothing but butter and cheese in it. yuh could eat it and it might goh dong good with lime peppa sauce but its not right. ya digg?

[Maserati]

*shakes head* not fair I so poor

[Razkal]

the pettit racing kit is a complete swap, comes with engine subframe and a 20B rebuilt, but using stock turbos i believe, minor mods...550whp..

a street port or any type of porting may seem like headache to some, tearing down the engine putting it back together, but to a rotary its the equivalent of doing a complete head job, cams, valves, porting, polishing, the works...the extremity of the port akin to the 'streetability' of a camshaft in a regular piston engine..

[Zh@ne]

my word.....

[Bezman]

when they do swaps its like buying aloo pie wit nothing but butter and cheese in it. yuh could eat it and it might goh dong good with lime peppa sauce but its not right. ya digg?

we clearly said in the thread its not a piston vs rotary or why he did the swap kinda thread, its about a cool car

why cant you just appreciate it for what it is???

i love rotaries and i love turbo nissans, toyotas, mitsubishi's, na honda's anything....

all this fanboy crap.

[Razkal]

^

thas why i posted the crazy swap thread a couple weeks back, so men would get over this nonsense...i'm a HUGE rx7 fan, but the ingenuity and skill required to make this swap work is admirable, despite the fact, i personally wouldnt do it given the resources.

RS200, need to piss them off some more...if u have the F20C powered silvia, post it up
or better yet i'll post my rb powered rx7

[EvoDraZ]

when they do swaps its like buying aloo pie wit nothing but butter and cheese in it. yuh could eat it and it might goh dong good with lime peppa sauce but its not right. ya digg?

we clearly said in the thread its not a piston vs rotary or why he did the swap kinda thread, its about a cool car

why cant you just appreciate it for what it is???

i love rotaries and i love turbo nissans, toyotas, mitsubishi's, na honda's anything....

all this fanboy crap.

doh get it wrong the swap iz impressive i am sorry for not noting that before. but i was responding to the question of a "reliability" since thats why the swap was done in the first place. I was trying to show that a "reliable rotary engine is possible" the time and resources for the swap is about the same to build a reliable rotary engine.

[Razkal]

^correct. most ppl dont understand that.
but anyone ever seen the SP engineering 2JZGTE powered FD!?
LAWDD!!!! that car looks sweeeeeet!, google it guys, i think i posted it in the crazy swaps thread, but i not lookin for that now..

[Sinister_Audio]

EvoDraZ, tek win wit d lass pic


buh nice impressive times on stock sr block.
interestin turbo manifold very creative!
i guess the reason they didnt face the turbo inlet forward was cuz u said its a daily driver?

oh well nice project yo!
cant wait to see the 4g63 n others!