rollcage in 10-12 sec street cars **now effective 2008**

[X2]

X2,


It would be silly for me to argue that all of the things we discussed PLUS a helmet WOULDN'T be safer. But what about the flipside to this equation. Would you rather a serious collision with a padded cage and a five point belt or with no extra safety devices at all?

Who's arguing about the safety value of a cage ? Nothing I've said is an arguement nor is any of it untrue.

A roll cage protects occupants of the vehicle from being crushed, so in a serious accident at speed of COURSE it will prevent you from being mangled.

Most street cars that are NOT RACING will not likely this type of accident... more likely to be in a fender bender with minor damage.... so you play the odds.... increase the chances you crack your skull open like an egg in a minor crash or be prepared for only the absolute worst ?

A Porsche RUF and Noble GTO for example, comes standard with a padded cage. Certainly, the makers can't expect the driver to wear a helmet at all times?

Never said you couldn't either... it's a choice you have to make.

HMMMMM to end this all can anyone tell me what a Apillar is made of ..or just 6 inches from my head the B pillar? not steel? my head can hit that too.......come on...the fact is that even my professor had to aggree with me when I asked why roll cages are not in all cars...that it was the safest way to go.....he has a PHD in engineering and does crash test analysis for F1 and GM.......agrue with him why dont you......

Let's see... based on your interpretation of what your professor told you... consider the following:

If your head makes it to the A pillar, you weren't wearing a seat belt and will probably end up dead...

A B pillar is made of formed steel with a flat facing surface AND is covered with hollow or honeycombed plastic (which absorbs a good bit of impact). On the flip side, a roll cage is made of small diameter, heavy gauge tubular steel which has a much smaller surface area to come in contact with your head. This makes the impact area concentrated (picture the back end of a knife striking an egg). It's wrapped in foam about 1" thick at best ? Albeit high density... but it's just not thick enough to provide ample protection in an event like that.

TRY IT OUT !

Karate chop your B pillar as hard as you can.... then karate chop a roll bar padded with foam and report back as to which one breaks your hand.


argue away... I not against the FIA rules... but this inventing of new rules.... neh... gimme the $50 sanctioning fee back.

[TeamH2O]

^^U pay before me, so u hadda be in front ah me down the track in a run, no rollcage neccessary

[X2]

dais aight... imma build the FASTEST 12.00 street car yuh ever see !!!

[ziig]

LOL @ X2.... you really feel so?

I have tested roll cage with high desity foam IT actually absorbs shock laod 3 times better than conventional thin pastic molding would......

why dont you consider this
Molding on a B pillar is .050 thick if that much.......
High density foam is airated and 1/4 to half inch thick...designed to absorb shock loads........

why dont you hit your head on a molded B pillar?

OHHHH wait maybe you already did.....LOL

antoher thing........RX7 come with steel reinforced doors......hmmm are these in preperation for a "fender bender"?

NOPE dint think so

[ziig]

dont spell check me...LOL typing fast to keep up with my students work...lol

[Computerman]

racing costs money if you cant afford to abide by the safety rules set by the governing body/bodies then dont race

First sensible thing I've heard all week!

if you enforce the must be an fia memebr then stick to fia's drag racing rules

and while at it
stick to fia's track specifications

Agreed!

We have to make the distinction between an "Officially Sanctioned Drag Racing Event" with full setup drag vehicles as opposed to an "Open Track Day Event" where street cars can come and run. There are NO FREE EVENTS! You'll have to pay both ways. However the logistics for each are quite different.

This is not wallerfield! We will not be able to do the type of things we were accustomed to at 'wallers'. This will have no significant impact on the illegal street racing problem because most of those cars cannot run at this location due to the rules and regulations regarding this site.

I was not impressed with TTASA on Monday. If anything I was quite disappointed. The were very disorganised. There was no proper agenda for the meeting. Jameer stated "We spending too much time on this subject!" when we were trying to discuss safety. They seemed to be in a rush to get to the registration part of the 'meeting' ($$?).

I did not enter my car, but I will come as a spectator because I want to see if this really is 'the future' or just 'more of the same'!

[Bezman]

i cant even beleive you guys are questioning this

W2J you especially

if you were in teh US you wouldnt even make it onto the track, LOL

ya'll dont remember Ryan Garcia having to rebuild his entire cage to be able to race in the USA, please read the hand books

http://www.importdrag.com/2006%20NHRA%2 ... erview.pdf


safety is a MUST if we are to get anywhere, one majour crash without the correct safety in place, will result in immediate pullout by sponsors and govt support,. think please...

what about PINKS when someone has a car faster than 11.00 same thing, i have seen them turn away racers at PINKS all out cause of safety/no cage rules from the track they using,.

rules are rules

[White CZ4A]

i cant even beleive you guys are questioning this

W2J you especially

if you were in teh US you wouldnt even make it onto the track, LOL

ya'll dont remember Ryan Garcia having to rebuild his entire cage to be able to race in the USA, please read the hand books

http://www.importdrag.com/2006%20NHRA%2 ... erview.pdf


safety is a MUST if we are to get anywhere, one majour crash without the correct safety in place, will result in immediate pullout by sponsors and govt support,. think please...

what about PINKS when someone has a car faster than 11.00 same thing, i have seen them turn away racers at PINKS all out cause of safety/no cage rules from the track they using,.

rules are rules

simple...end of story!

[X2]

LOL @ X2.... you really feel so?

I have tested roll cage with high desity foam IT actually absorbs shock laod 3 times better than conventional thin pastic molding would......

why dont you consider this
Molding on a B pillar is .050 thick if that much.......
High density foam is airated and 1/4 to half inch thick...designed to absorb shock loads........

I work with high density foam in my industry... 1/2 thick is nothing.

In my industry I have access to ANSI testing for high density foam and can prove that 1/2" of high density foam is useless at that thickness to absorb heavy impact. What testing procedure did you use on that roll cage padding... your finger ?

why dont you hit your head on a molded B pillar?

OHHHH wait maybe you already did.....LOL

Actually, I have slammed into a B pillar at high speed.... thanks for bringing up the point... car didn't have a cage and I'm alive, no blunt trauma to the head, no split skull, no internal bleeding.

antoher thing........RX7 come with steel reinforced doors......hmmm are these in preperation for a "fender bender"?

NOPE dint think so

Think again...that is for side impact scenarios. Civics even have steel crash bars in the doors... lots of road racers take them out for weight reduction.




So... back to logic... Computerman has an excellent point !

We have to make the distinction between an "Officially Sanctioned Drag Racing Event" with full setup drag vehicles as opposed to an "Open Track Day Event" where street cars can come and run. There are NO FREE EVENTS! You'll have to pay both ways. However the logistics for each are quite different.

Either way... Will TTASA listen to our concerns ? I'm very interested in that fact that mankind paying for FIA sanction and not following FIA rule books.

[ziig]

ok well x2 I use a enstrom with strain guages what do you use your toe?
we check crash boxes for F1 cars such as mclaren and BAR.......

we also do all of the rally testing for prodrive......roll cage pro padding is for roll cage....what is your foam for? matresses...

talk done.....

[W2J]

you think TTASA will make him put a roll cage in ?[/img]

[ziig]

if he want to race then he HAVE to......why rules so hard for you to follow.....it seems the way of our culture is rules are made to complained about and then broken regardless of the consequence or desired effect.....

[X2]

ok well x2 I use a enstrom with strain guages what do you use your toe?
we check crash boxes for F1 cars such as mclaren and BAR.......

we also do all of the rally testing for prodrive......roll cage pro padding is for roll cage....what is your foam for? matresses...

talk done.....

Matresses... LOL... maybe that's what you use your gauge for ?

I dunno how a strain gauge tests foam impact resilience there pumpkin, you need both an indentation and deflection test on ASTM approved machinery...not a simple gauge.....but go strong big man.... if talk done... then hush.

[ziig]

lol your getting hot....lol

maybe you should call up Bolton University and ask them why they get all that work on top team with out your help......

and I will hush when you make sense about the topic....

I am not tring to argue only state that my expereince leads me to believe based on acurate data that a roll cage will save you life in ANY volecity involved incedent VS non cage......if you dont like what I am saying then dont use one and dont race..!

[X2]

lol your getting hot....lol

maybe you should call up Bolton University and ask them why they get all that work on top team with out your help......

and I will hush when you make sense about the topic....

I am not tring to argue only state that my expereince leads me to believe based on acurate data that a roll cage will save you life in ANY volecity involved incedent VS non cage......if you dont like what I am saying then dont use one and dont race..!

I not getting hot patnah I deal with the effects of both high density foam and other materials for ergonomics and don't need a professor or a research team to tell me what testing procedures are used for international acceptance. ASTM and ANSI, the accepted test standards can tell me.

And if you don't think I am making sense, you need to click a link... www.HookedOnPhonics.com because you obviously want to put words in my mouth since you are not reading the ones in front of you.

Cages save lives when other safety equipment is being used in tandem and I have not doubted that once that they work... dunno where u conjured that one from... but without the other equipment... it can potentially kill you. <--fact... stay ignorant if you want.

Maybe you should stop assuming that ppl in Trinidad are clueless and take the time to ask your university buds how to spell accurate, velocity and incident.

[W2J]

aarite effective today I am going to buy in a company that sells roll bars and roll cages.

http://forums.trinituner.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2140631#2140631

[miguel granville]

every one lets just wait till sunday and see how things go yes

[X2]

^^ Kewl...

who's gunna sell parachutes ? Cuz if 12 second cars needs cages, then 11 second cars need chutes.

[Strauss]

Question: Haven't the car manufacturers of sub 12s cars already deemed it safe 'enough' without a roll cage and expect people will be driving fast with it sometimes in an uncontrolled environment?

[kg494EJ-1]

Some vehicles now with minor upgrades and proper tuning do 12s easily and can still be used as a safe daily driven street car, adding a rollcage now means the owner can no longer use it as a daily driver without a helmet, example a owner of a Ferrari or Porsche after waiting so long to get their hand on the vehicle they decide I want to run the thing all out and he decides to go to the track and is refused because they dont have a rollcage and their car is capable of doing more that 13s, this rule should be made depending on the set up of your vehicle if it is gutted rollcage, but one question, What happens to someone that can only afford to have one car and it is their baby and it is used as a daily driver, but has equipped it with some serious power because he loves the sport and can do 11s & 12s?

sorry to tell you this ehh but all ferrari and porshe come with triple reinforced body panels, carbon fiber monoque chassis etc. because they are designed for race ready trim.....thats why they cost more money...than a civic...

Thanks for the comment on my cheap crappy ride,but besides that what do you think this new piece of regulation will cause, some would put in rollcages but others may just turn their backs on racing on a track and return to the streets and this is the view being expressed by some.

[TeamH2O]

i noticed my supra only needs little rollcage, the doors and such already has something similar if you remove the upholstery.

[ziig]

ok X2 so you think i am dumb because I dont take the time to spell every word correct...WOW that is priceless...!!! besides engineering doesnt call for my spelling skills.....

so you dont think I am a trini too , I boast to evryone in any counrty I am working that trini guys make things work when everyone else goes out and buys pre-made stuff......

as i said before thats the rule...live by it or get out...........


KG494EJ-1 as you said I agree with the point you make about some guys going to street race that may be true , but the fact still remains that it is the rule and needs to be up held no matter what guys think...(including X2)

a cage used in racing is for your safety and that is paramount.........if you want to race and you are required to cage, then cage, and make sure you are safe on the road.....if you have fears of hitting your nuggin.........then strap oin properly as you would in a race......it may be a bother but it can save your life even on the the roads......

[ziig]

I not getting hot patnah I deal with the effects of both high density foam and other materials for ergonomics and don't need a professor or a research team to tell me what testing procedures are used for international acceptance. ASTM and ANSI, the accepted test standards can tell me.


ahhhh ergonomics huh? not function but functional style?
the world of making man and machine harmonize....what in the world does that have to do with crash test?

do you do actual crash test analysis? structural anlysis of beams and crumple zones? structural rigidity of beams and struts etc. under stress and strain? the effects of restraints and head rest on head trauma? low velocity and high velocity cadava test and dummy test , data analysis of side impact and ffrontal impact?

NO? ohhhh jeeze....cause thats what I do.



I do aggree that if a cgage is not used in conjunction with oterh devices it can lead to serious head injury..........but why be so dumb as to have a cage and know this yet not were proper restaint?

[Bezman]

ya'll are nuts,


cages can cause injury in small accidents, esp if not wearing a seatbelt


BUT


an 11.xx sec street car, and faster, crashing at those speeds (some even 120,130+mph at trap).. anyway, it's your life. if you think your lil chassis that was designed for a 149hp (110whp) engine, and barely scraped past a crash test in 199X (with pooooooooor ratings to boot) is going to do well in a crash at those speeds, good luck, remember it could be as something as small as a tire blow out or a stray dog in our lovely island race tracks...

where those photos of the race car from Jamaica or Grenada drags??? i think it was a datsun or something, where the photos of the man who fly off the track into the bush in a OLD arse car and the rollcage saved him,..

anyway


peace

[Langdon]

Really imagine your ride now crack into the 12 sec category, gone excited like a schmuck and install ah big arse heavy roll cage and now mih ride gone back in the 13 sec bracket


I say under eleven seconds probably should have a cage, above that i dont think its quite necessary or practical particularly for the daily drivers.

[dragaholic]

I understand that chrome moly roll cages are very lightweight.

[ziig]

Really imagine your ride now crack into the 12 sec category, gone excited like a schmuck and install ah big arse heavy roll cage and now mih ride gone back in the 13 sec bracket :wtf:


I say under eleven seconds probably should have a cage, above that i dont think its quite necessary or practical particularly for the daily drivers.

that is the worst argument here so far...if you building a race car wont you put it on a diet? if you add a chrome moly cage 1.5 dia. will add some weight but that can easily be removed else where..........

[X2]

KG494EJ-1 as you said I agree with the point you make about some guys going to street race that may be true , but the fact still remains that it is the rule and needs to be up held no matter what guys think...(including X2)

Man... ur not even paying attention to what we're talking about.

ahhhh ergonomics huh? not function but functional style?
the world of making man and machine harmonize....what in the world does that have to do with crash test?

Funny... an engineer that doesn't know what ergonomics means... has nothing to do with 'style'.... it deals purely with function... not fashion (see ? spelling IS important)

do you do actual crash test analysis? structural anlysis of beams and crumple zones? structural rigidity of beams and struts etc. under stress and strain? ....cause thats what I do

yet you think you test foam with a strain gauge.....

I am a trini too , I boast to evryone in any counrty I am working that trini guys make things work when everyone else goes out and buys pre-made stuff......

w/e guy... you're right.... and so is TTASA... 12 second cars need cages. To flip with the actual FIA rules....

[Langdon]

Really imagine your ride now crack into the 12 sec category, gone excited like a schmuck and install ah big arse heavy roll cage and now mih ride gone back in the 13 sec bracket


I say under eleven seconds probably should have a cage, above that i dont think its quite necessary or practical particularly for the daily drivers.

that is the worst argument here so far...if you building a race car wont you put it on a diet? if you add a chrome moly cage 1.5 dia. will add some weight but that can easily be removed else where..........

Not an argument was meant to be a joke Thought that was obvious...guess not

[honda hoe]

Langdon, wuz d scene pallie