Flow
Flow
Flow
TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

SIR V.S MIVEC

Automotive Non-Technical topics... Just anything car related for the gear head in all of us

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

User avatar
blackNshine
Trinituner Peong
Posts: 458
Joined: March 13th, 2007, 10:52 am
Location: AREA 51

SIR V.S MIVEC

Postby blackNshine » May 17th, 2007, 1:55 pm

kindly share you opinion and experiences on the topic.which is faster on the 1/4 mile i would aslo like to throw in the type r civic in that battle if you see fit.

acesinghit
punchin NOS
Posts: 2815
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 9:09 pm

Postby acesinghit » May 17th, 2007, 2:23 pm

type r should b the fastest. the other 2 should be neck on neck though im leaning on the sir

User avatar
VexXx Dogg
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 16828
Joined: May 1st, 2003, 10:23 am
Location: ☠☠☠

Postby VexXx Dogg » May 17th, 2007, 2:44 pm

x2floor wrote:type r should b the fastest. the other 2 should be neck on neck though im leaning on the sir


ditto

User avatar
white~nigg@
Ricer
Posts: 29
Joined: November 27th, 2006, 11:17 am
Location: In a Room,n SOUTH.

Postby white~nigg@ » May 17th, 2007, 2:48 pm

nah...a Mivec would leave a SIR on everytng.Buh d typeR kinda n a different class.

trivec101
Riding on 13's
Posts: 1
Joined: April 19th, 2007, 11:46 pm

Postby trivec101 » May 17th, 2007, 3:15 pm

mivec over sir any day,type r cut above the rest

User avatar
Langdon
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 233
Joined: June 29th, 2006, 12:50 pm
Location: EVOlve or remain an Ape

Postby Langdon » May 17th, 2007, 3:20 pm

I had an automatic sir engine in a civic, also had a 1500 vtec manual,a friend had a 1600 mivec manual and i dont believe the 1600 mivec could beat a sir on the 1/4. We talking stock right.

As a matter of fact after doing some research a lot of mitsu enthusiasts admitted that the hp rating on the mivec was a bit overstated (170ish) not too sure, they felt that it was closer to 140 therebouts, this i agree with based on driving and being driven in a mivec.

I aint bashing mitsubishi cause i am a proud mitsu owner (turbocharged though) but when it comes to NA engines its a fact Honda is king.

I feel the tight race is between a 1500 vtec and a 1600 mivec, honestly.

User avatar
Langdon
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 233
Joined: June 29th, 2006, 12:50 pm
Location: EVOlve or remain an Ape

Postby Langdon » May 17th, 2007, 3:25 pm

trivec101 wrote:mivec over sir any day,type r cut above the rest


try not to be driven by emotion and you'll come up with the logical answer.

User avatar
white~nigg@
Ricer
Posts: 29
Joined: November 27th, 2006, 11:17 am
Location: In a Room,n SOUTH.

Postby white~nigg@ » May 17th, 2007, 3:31 pm

Langdon:i had a 4g92 sohc,& da WET alot of sir on d road,from d 98-00 model.D manual vtec wud hav me buh ah auto was gehn wash up.Den 2 it depends on d driver.
My cousin ha a SIR & my mivec does leave him{stock on stock}.Z only wen he bring out d oda sir wit tpyeR parts z wen i does geh wash.

User avatar
Langdon
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 233
Joined: June 29th, 2006, 12:50 pm
Location: EVOlve or remain an Ape

Postby Langdon » May 17th, 2007, 3:39 pm

white~nigg@ wrote:Langdon:i had a 4g92 sohc,& da WET alot of sir on d road,from d 98-00 model.D manual vtec wud hav me buh ah auto was gehn wash up.Den 2 it depends on d driver.
My cousin ha a SIR & my mivec does leave him{stock on stock}.Z only wen he bring out d oda sir wit tpyeR parts z wen i does geh wash.


I cant doubt yuh bro, but it sounds strange to me. The mivec and dem i find does take way too long to make power, going down the road i might believe is a mivec's best chance and dat have to be a real long road cause i know dat dem sir aint hanging around. infact i love them so much i'm considering buying one again.

equipped2ripp
punchin NOS
Posts: 4983
Joined: April 17th, 2003, 11:50 pm
Location: San Fernando, Trinidad & Tobago.

Postby equipped2ripp » May 17th, 2007, 3:56 pm

SiR vs MIVEC :lol: :lol: :lol:

next thing i hear about VTEC vs RALLIART or sumn :lol:

User avatar
Sanctifier
punchin NOS
Posts: 3768
Joined: June 9th, 2004, 8:09 am
Location: Good question!

Postby Sanctifier » May 17th, 2007, 7:35 pm

Already tested years ago. Mivec more powerful than SiR.
Track Test... (not 1/4-mile AFAIK) SiR won. Weight and handling in favour of Civic.

holdingfirm1
Ricer
Posts: 17
Joined: October 27th, 2006, 1:11 pm
Location: d bus shed!

Postby holdingfirm1 » May 17th, 2007, 8:12 pm

so who would win on the 1/4?

User avatar
Sanctifier
punchin NOS
Posts: 3768
Joined: June 9th, 2004, 8:09 am
Location: Good question!

Postby Sanctifier » May 17th, 2007, 8:27 pm

IMHO with a weight advantage... Maybe SiR???

User avatar
Tuner Imports
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 147
Joined: March 1st, 2005, 2:27 am
Location: #140 Caroni Savannah Rd. Charlieville, Chag.
Contact:

Postby Tuner Imports » May 18th, 2007, 10:56 am

If i still had my CK with the 4G15 DOHC, i would have challenged anyone with a stock SIR and known they never would have left me....been there done it many times...farless for a MIVEC...

lowlife

Postby lowlife » May 18th, 2007, 11:05 am

Langdon wrote:As a matter of fact after doing some research a lot of mitsu enthusiasts admitted that the hp rating on the mivec was a bit overstated (170ish) not too sure, they felt that it was closer to 140 therebouts, this i agree with based on driving and being driven in a mivec.

but when it comes to NA engines its a fact Honda is king.

I feel the tight race is between a 1500 vtec and a 1600 mivec, honestly.


^^^I agree......HONDA is a NA beast

User avatar
Langdon
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 233
Joined: June 29th, 2006, 12:50 pm
Location: EVOlve or remain an Ape

Postby Langdon » May 18th, 2007, 11:55 am

Any of those vehicles been on the dyno stock? Want to know if the mivec really makes claimed hp.

User avatar
white~nigg@
Ricer
Posts: 29
Joined: November 27th, 2006, 11:17 am
Location: In a Room,n SOUTH.

Postby white~nigg@ » May 18th, 2007, 12:25 pm

where in trinidad can u run a dyno??iz it xpensive 2 run one??

User avatar
Tuner Imports
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 147
Joined: March 1st, 2005, 2:27 am
Location: #140 Caroni Savannah Rd. Charlieville, Chag.
Contact:

Postby Tuner Imports » May 18th, 2007, 12:35 pm

MIVEC - 174HP

User avatar
3stagevtec
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 9622
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 1:57 pm
Location: killing two stones with one bird...
Contact:

Postby 3stagevtec » May 18th, 2007, 12:58 pm

this was answered already...

http://forums.trinituner.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=128206&highlight=lancer++civic+sir

enjoy...

Image

INTRODUCTION

In this premier feature, we look at Mistubishi's competitor to Honda's Civic SiR/SiR-2, the Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg ZR. Prior the the introduction of the Civic Type-R and the new 180ps Nissan Pulsar, the Mirage had the highest power of all JDM 1.6litre engined cars

THE MITSUBISHI MIRAGE CYBORG ZR

The Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg ZR is Mitsubishi's key model in the intensely competitive hot-hatch category in Japan. Cars in this category are extremely popular for use in the Gymkhana sport in Japan. Current favourites for Gymkhana uses are the Mitsubishi Mirage/Cyborg and Honda's Civic SiR/SiR2 and CRX.

Since the previous generation, where it came as a Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg R, the Mirage has been powered by the Mitsubishi 4G92 1597cc DOHC EFi engine. This 1.6litre engine is also fitted with Mitsubishi's MIVEC variable valve lift and timing system, which is very familiar with Honda's VTEC system. As a result of this, the engine is specified to produce 175ps or 5ps more than the B16A engine powering the EG6 and EK4 Civic SiR-2s. Max torque is 17.0kgm which is 1kgm higher than the B16A.

In addition, the Mirage ZR is also lighter than the Civic SiR-2. Comparing a full-options version with the other, this gives a better power-to-weight ratio for the Mirage ZR. The newest version of the Mirage ZR has been given a complete revision by Mitsubishi in order for it to be more competitive with the likes of Honda's Civic and Toyota's new Levin/Treuno.

THE MITSUBISHI 4G92 ENGINE

The important specifications for the Mitsubishi Mirage's engine are as follows:

engine - type 4G92
type: transverse in-line 4
bore x stroke: 81.0 x 77.5
capacity: 1597cc
valve train: dohc 16v with MIVEC
compression ratio: 11.0:1
fuel system: (Mitsubishi) multi-point fuel injection

power: 175ps at 7500rpm
torque: 17.0kgm at 7000rpm

Given the higher powered engine and a lighter body, the Mirage R is naturally expected to be faster than the Civic SiR2 since power-to-weight ratio is one of the most significant factor in a race. To look at the real world performance however, let's examine the results as obtained by two reviewer sources for JDM performance cars.

JAPAN MOTOR MAGAZINE'S JARI TEST RESULTS

JAPAN's MOTOR magazine performed JARI (Japan Automobile Research Institute) tests on both the previous generations of EG6 Civic SiR-2 and the Mirage Cyborg R. Though highly dependent on driver's skills, tested 0-100kph and 0-400m drag times however are highly indicative of the actual sprint performance of these vehicles. In their respective tests, the Mirage Cyborg R was tested to do 0-100kph in 8.16 seconds and 0-400m in 15.65 seconds.

Surpisingly, the EG6 Civic did a corresponding 7.66seconds and 15.17 seconds respectively despite being 5ps down in power. These results strongly suggests that the EG6 Civic would be superior to the Mirage Cyborg R in a straight line race.

JAPAN BEST MOTORing's PERFORMANCE TESTS

However, many believes the true worth of a performance car is not only in its straight line ability, but is more so in its ability as an overall performance car, ie cornering, balance, as well as accessibility ie how easy it is to drive it fast. The ultimate worth of a performance car is thus in its lap times around a reference circuit.

My favourite reference for this is JAPAN's BEST MOTORing video series. They perform unbiased performance tests of all JDM cars. Most importantly though is BEST MOTORing depends on a group of established professional racing drivers for their performance test, which includes a package of 0-400metre (approximately 0-1/4mile) sprint test as well as a "circuit battle" which is in the form of a 5 to 7 laps race usually on the famous Tsukuba circuit in Japan.

In the end-November 1996 issue of BEST MOTORING, they did a performance test for the best 1.6litre car in Japan. Both the 3door and 4door variants of the current generation Civic and Mirage were tested together with the Toyota Treuno and Sprinter Marino (both these using Toyota's 1.6l DOHC inline 4 20valve engine giving 165ps).

BEST MOTORing 400M SPRINT

The following sequence of images are screen captures I did of the 0-400m sprint race between the 3-door versions; EK4 Civic SiR-2, Mirage ZR, and Trueno BZ-G.

Image
Start ! Mirage takes off to an early lead

Image
Civic catches up at halfway mark

Image
B16A has the superior top-end !

Image
EK4 Civic takes the finishing line !

At the start, the Mirage took an easy lead, probably due to its superior power-to-weight ratio. However, after the mid-point of the race and towards the end, the superior top-end of the B16A allowed the EK4 Civic to eventually win the sprint. This result tallies well with that obtained in the MOTOR magazine's JARI sprint tests.

BEST MOTORing TSUKUBA CIRCUIT "BATTLE"

The highlight of all BM performance test is definitely the final circuit race, dubbed the 'Tsukuba Battle'. This battle involved both the 3door and 4door versions of the Civic, Mirage and Trueno, the 4door version of Toyota's Levin/Trueno being the Sprinter Marino.

The following sequence of images represents a couple of screen captures I made of the Tsukuba battle. BM organizes the starting grid by reverse order of either the weight-to-power ratio or the 0-400M drag results. This race's starting grid was according to weight-to-power ratio, thus the front row being the three 4-doors and the back row being the 3-doors.

Image
Starting grid is based on weight-to-power ratio

Image
Into the first corner; 3-doors are already biting hard at the 4-door tails !

Image
The long straight in lap-1, Civic is already in front !

Retired racer M. Kurosawa easily took the EK4 Civic to an early lead in the battle. Maintaining his lead throughout the 5-lap race, he took an easy victory. Towards the second half of the race, after getting free from being stuck behind the three 4-doors, the Trueno BZ-G was clearly biting very hard at the Mirage ZR's tail. At the finishing line, the Mirage ZR just managed to hold the Trueno BZ-G off by blocking its line into the final corner.

The image below shows the final race result. The EK4 Civic won the race easily. The Mirage ZR took second place though the Trueno turned in a better best-lap time. The Civic Ferio Si-2 finished second amongst the 4-doors.

Image

The image below shows the "Time Attack" results for the 6 cars in the battle. "Time Attack" results are the fastest lap times during individual lap runs that are done by the various drivers prior to the battle. When driven in the circuit alone, it is clearly seen that the EK4 Civic is very much faster than its other contenders. Note that the time-attack result for Mirage ZR is slower than the Trueno. In fact, despite having the best power-weight ratio amongst the three 3-doors, the Mirage ZR was the slowest around the Tsukuba circuit. At this point, it is important to highlight that all three 3-doors are equipped with LSDs.

Image

CONCLUSION
In closing, the writer feels that both the MOTOR magazine's JARI test and especially the BEST MOTORing battle results clearly shows the 3-door EG6 and EK4 Civic SiR-2 to be a faster car than the equivalent Mitsubishi Mirage MIVECs. Thus, a superior power-weight ratio is not a sure guarantee for superior performance.

User avatar
dragaholic
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1840
Joined: April 18th, 2003, 10:58 am
Location: itchin tuh race!

Postby dragaholic » May 18th, 2007, 2:23 pm

^^good info. Also locally Douglas Stampli use to race a white mivec around 01-02. He use to rac in the 16s and I believe his best time was a 15.6 or 7. While Fixables sir was runin 15.4s avg.

User avatar
blackNshine
Trinituner Peong
Posts: 458
Joined: March 13th, 2007, 10:52 am
Location: AREA 51

Postby blackNshine » May 18th, 2007, 2:27 pm

3stagevtec................well done,well done!

Advertisement

Return to “The Car Park”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests