TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Automotive Non-Technical topics... Just anything car related for the gear head in all of us

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

User avatar
drchaos
punchin NOS
Posts: 4337
Joined: February 5th, 2013, 3:56 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby drchaos » May 23rd, 2023, 11:14 pm

adnj wrote:
drchaos wrote:
Partially wrong ... Yes keep your car cool as well while its parked will prolong your battery.
But you are ignoring the fact that a Li ion battery that is currently being used i.e being discharged and recharged while the car is being driven produces heat. If that heat is not being dissipated you are aging your battery faster.

Keep your AC cool will move colder air to your battery via its air cooling system while it is generating heat from discharging and recharging while you are driving. Therefore keeping the battery in the said operating temperature.

My 6 year old has already figure out that Li ion batteries in our ipad heat up/produce heat while being charged/discharged.
Why havent you?


When you're driving along, your cabin interior gets how much warmer than 30°C? warmer than 35°C? How much heat do you people generate in a car that's moving?

Sweaty, hot and funky. Nice family.


Wrong :lol:

User avatar
zando
Trinituner Peong
Posts: 429
Joined: February 11th, 2010, 12:11 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby zando » May 24th, 2023, 9:37 pm

I doubt manufactures would rely on their users using the ac to cool the battery lol, that's a bad bad plan that would just be looking for trouble, anywhoo, I googled it.

'It uses a liquid coolant such as water, a refrigerant, or ethylene glycol to cool the battery. The liquid goes through tubes, cold plates, or other components that surround the cells and carry heat to another location, such as a radiator or a heat exchanger.'

If this works also like PC cooling, the fan they're using could be used to suck hot air away from the battery and expell it outside or under the car, this is just on a larger scale.

User avatar
Alpha_2nr
punchin NOS
Posts: 3868
Joined: August 17th, 2005, 9:12 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Alpha_2nr » May 25th, 2023, 8:02 am

drchaos wrote:
scotty_buttons wrote:
drchaos wrote:
zando wrote:
drchaos wrote:
scotty_buttons wrote:On another note,

Any new model Vezel owners here?

How’s the economy with the new Electric motor / Gas engine generator setup?

Much better than the outgoing vezel?

Any issues?

I’ve read and heard the yaris cross gets better economy than the new vezel too.
Only con with the Yaris cross is headroom is kinda cramped. I’m 5 8 and my head hits the headliner.

Looking for a small SUV for a long commute. Must be getting more than 500kms on a tank As economical as possible. Reliable. Easy resale as i don’t plan to keep it more than 3 years. 20% highway. 80% ‘B roads.’

Doesn’t have to be new. Can be local used as well.

And no, Aqua isn’t an option. Something a little more spacious.


Best friend has the new Vezel, should be way better than the outgoing model. The hybrid system is way better than the last gen which had a dual clutch set-up and had numerous recalls in Japan. This one just has a single gear transfer case.
He said gas mileage is amazing, Yaris cross will be better with fuel economy but a bit more limp.
Yaris cross should have better resale.
So the issues I heard about those vezels having were for the old models? The new ones better right? Them thing selling like sauce doubles yes.


Yes older models had transmission issues. New model is a totally new drivetrain design.
Below 80Km and the car is an EV with the engine charging the battery.
Over 80Km and the engine has direct connection with the wheels and drives the car via transfer case with no gears to change.

so very simple setup and has been used in other honda cars like the accord and fit earlier with little to no problems and now in the CRV and the Vezel.

Keep your AC very cold with the new hybrids since the batteries are air cooled and make sure the fan and vent system is getting cool air to the battery and they should last very long.

I thought the face lifted older vezels sorted their transmission issues. If not then I’ll void them.
I’m guessing the Nissan Kicks should be reliable as well cuz they use the same theoretical drivetrain.
Can’t seem to find any other cars that has similar engine/transmission setup.

My only concern is the battery lifetime as these smaller capacity batteries would be recharging and discharging more often than say a full electric car with a much larger battery and would result in decreased battery lifetime.


My advice is stay away from dry dual clutch transmission ... They tend to have software issues, not made for traffic constant stop and go, overheat. Bad tech even if the manufacturer has claimed to have "fixed" it.

Difference between the vezel and kicks is that vezel will use electric motors and low speed and highway speeds will use the engine to drive the wheels. Kicks will only use the electric motors all the time. So vezel is slightly more complicated drivetrain wise.
Vezel is also easier to service the batteries, meaning to clean out the fan/air filters and battery pack.
Kicks battery is located under the front seat and transmission shifter so plenty work to get at it.

Battery should not give you much trouble for 7-8 years. The battery charge is balanced between 30 to 70 % so very little ware and tear over the years. Just keep your AC cold cause the batteries are air cooled. Deep discharge cycles and heat is what destroys Li ion batteries.


Wait....what?

Keeping the interior AC cold to help protect the battery packs/modules on a hybrid?

The same battery packs that are in shielded containment separate from (i.e. outside of the interior cabin,) and cooled by separate ducting/duty systems?

User avatar
jsm1985
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 324
Joined: December 3rd, 2007, 8:24 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby jsm1985 » May 25th, 2023, 10:16 pm

Need some feedback from you guys:
Been hitting the new car dealer circuit to replace my 2018 Mazda CX-5 which is now at the end of its 5 year company provided life.

Basically have an allowance of $6800/ month to work with.

I could go with either purchasing on my own or a leasing company.

Options based on price range are:

Kia Sportage 1.6T LX mid spec $280K - no GT Line stock
Hyundai Tucson 1.6T mid spec $309K
Nissan Qashqai 1.3T mid or high spec $309K or $355K
Mazda CX-5 2.0 Facelift mid spec $365K (basically the same car I have now, love it and no issues but also don’t want to get the same car)
BMW X1 1.5T base $370K
Audi Q3 base $375K

Exceptions:
2023 CRV base is $369K but arriving too late October
2023 XTrail E- Power is $375K but massy is having issues with the electric tax exemption and sales of it are on hold

Any advice? Anything to stay away from?

Thanks!!

User avatar
drchaos
punchin NOS
Posts: 4337
Joined: February 5th, 2013, 3:56 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby drchaos » May 26th, 2023, 7:58 am

Alpha_2nr wrote:
drchaos wrote:
scotty_buttons wrote:
drchaos wrote:
zando wrote:
drchaos wrote:
scotty_buttons wrote:On another note,

Any new model Vezel owners here?

How’s the economy with the new Electric motor / Gas engine generator setup?

Much better than the outgoing vezel?

Any issues?

I’ve read and heard the yaris cross gets better economy than the new vezel too.
Only con with the Yaris cross is headroom is kinda cramped. I’m 5 8 and my head hits the headliner.

Looking for a small SUV for a long commute. Must be getting more than 500kms on a tank As economical as possible. Reliable. Easy resale as i don’t plan to keep it more than 3 years. 20% highway. 80% ‘B roads.’

Doesn’t have to be new. Can be local used as well.

And no, Aqua isn’t an option. Something a little more spacious.


Best friend has the new Vezel, should be way better than the outgoing model. The hybrid system is way better than the last gen which had a dual clutch set-up and had numerous recalls in Japan. This one just has a single gear transfer case.
He said gas mileage is amazing, Yaris cross will be better with fuel economy but a bit more limp.
Yaris cross should have better resale.
So the issues I heard about those vezels having were for the old models? The new ones better right? Them thing selling like sauce doubles yes.


Yes older models had transmission issues. New model is a totally new drivetrain design.
Below 80Km and the car is an EV with the engine charging the battery.
Over 80Km and the engine has direct connection with the wheels and drives the car via transfer case with no gears to change.

so very simple setup and has been used in other honda cars like the accord and fit earlier with little to no problems and now in the CRV and the Vezel.

Keep your AC very cold with the new hybrids since the batteries are air cooled and make sure the fan and vent system is getting cool air to the battery and they should last very long.

I thought the face lifted older vezels sorted their transmission issues. If not then I’ll void them.
I’m guessing the Nissan Kicks should be reliable as well cuz they use the same theoretical drivetrain.
Can’t seem to find any other cars that has similar engine/transmission setup.

My only concern is the battery lifetime as these smaller capacity batteries would be recharging and discharging more often than say a full electric car with a much larger battery and would result in decreased battery lifetime.


My advice is stay away from dry dual clutch transmission ... They tend to have software issues, not made for traffic constant stop and go, overheat. Bad tech even if the manufacturer has claimed to have "fixed" it.

Difference between the vezel and kicks is that vezel will use electric motors and low speed and highway speeds will use the engine to drive the wheels. Kicks will only use the electric motors all the time. So vezel is slightly more complicated drivetrain wise.
Vezel is also easier to service the batteries, meaning to clean out the fan/air filters and battery pack.
Kicks battery is located under the front seat and transmission shifter so plenty work to get at it.

Battery should not give you much trouble for 7-8 years. The battery charge is balanced between 30 to 70 % so very little ware and tear over the years. Just keep your AC cold cause the batteries are air cooled. Deep discharge cycles and heat is what destroys Li ion batteries.


Wait....what?

Keeping the interior AC cold to help protect the battery packs/modules on a hybrid?

The same battery packs that are in shielded containment separate from (i.e. outside of the interior cabin,) and cooled by separate ducting/duty systems?


The latest HRV has a duct next to the back seat that pulls air from the air conditioned cabin using a circular blower type fan and flows around the battery pack and is then ducted out of the vehicle.

In addition the Aqua, ioniq and nissan epower systems all use air from the air conditioned cabin with fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXp_3Awb-SQ&t=2s
The above link is from the is from the automotive research and design hybrid training segments and they state clearly
Poor air condition performance or failure of the air condition system will shorten the lifespan of you battery.
Blocked air ducts or damaged fan blades from the blower will also shorten your battery lifespan.
Higher cabin temperatures also result in poor cooling performance of your battery.

Local hybrid mechanics I have spoken to do recommend cleaning/servicing the fan and ducts every 1-2 years to ensure your battery cooling is optimized. The newest aqua even now has an air filter in the duct entrance so service is easier and the fan gets less dust building up reducing performance.

User avatar
Shalom Vanamson
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 173
Joined: July 1st, 2012, 5:31 pm
Location: Trinidad

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Shalom Vanamson » May 26th, 2023, 11:05 am

jsm1985 wrote:Need some feedback from you guys:
Been hitting the new car dealer circuit to replace my 2018 Mazda CX-5 which is now at the end of its 5 year company provided life.

Basically have an allowance of $6800/ month to work with.

I could go with either purchasing on my own or a leasing company.

Options based on price range are:

Kia Sportage 1.6T LX mid spec $280K - no GT Line stock
Hyundai Tucson 1.6T mid spec $309K
Nissan Qashqai 1.3T mid or high spec $309K or $355K
Mazda CX-5 2.0 Facelift mid spec $365K (basically the same car I have now, love it and no issues but also don’t want to get the same car)
BMW X1 1.5T base $370K
Audi Q3 base $375K

Exceptions:
2023 CRV base is $369K but arriving too late October
2023 XTrail E- Power is $375K but massy is having issues with the electric tax exemption and sales of it are on hold

Any advice? Anything to stay away from?

Thanks!!


Its interesting you brought up that point about the X Trail Power. For a while now I had questions as to how grey market dealers are selling the E Force version in the hybrid at a low price even Massy is selling the E force version at what looks like a tax exempted price but the thing is the E force version which is the 4wd has the 2 electric motors. As a result it produces more kw than the amount allowed under the tax exemption. Honestly confused :|

4Motion
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 166
Joined: June 6th, 2012, 5:14 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby 4Motion » May 27th, 2023, 7:54 am

jsm1985 wrote:Need some feedback from you guys:
Been hitting the new car dealer circuit to replace my 2018 Mazda CX-5 which is now at the end of its 5 year company provided life.

Basically have an allowance of $6800/ month to work with.

I could go with either purchasing on my own or a leasing company.

Options based on price range are:

Kia Sportage 1.6T LX mid spec $280K - no GT Line stock
Hyundai Tucson 1.6T mid spec $309K
Nissan Qashqai 1.3T mid or high spec $309K or $355K
Mazda CX-5 2.0 Facelift mid spec $365K (basically the same car I have now, love it and no issues but also don’t want to get the same car)
BMW X1 1.5T base $370K
Audi Q3 base $375K

Exceptions:
2023 CRV base is $369K but arriving too late October
2023 XTrail E- Power is $375K but massy is having issues with the electric tax exemption and sales of it are on hold

Any advice? Anything to stay away from?

Thanks!!


Both the BMW X1 & Audi Q3 are lovely cars.

I would go with the X1, the after service at LAFAST is good. And new update 2023 model is lovely

User avatar
drchaos
punchin NOS
Posts: 4337
Joined: February 5th, 2013, 3:56 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby drchaos » May 27th, 2023, 10:22 am

Shalom Vanamson wrote:
jsm1985 wrote:Need some feedback from you guys:
Been hitting the new car dealer circuit to replace my 2018 Mazda CX-5 which is now at the end of its 5 year company provided life.

Basically have an allowance of $6800/ month to work with.

I could go with either purchasing on my own or a leasing company.

Options based on price range are:

Kia Sportage 1.6T LX mid spec $280K - no GT Line stock
Hyundai Tucson 1.6T mid spec $309K
Nissan Qashqai 1.3T mid or high spec $309K or $355K
Mazda CX-5 2.0 Facelift mid spec $365K (basically the same car I have now, love it and no issues but also don’t want to get the same car)
BMW X1 1.5T base $370K
Audi Q3 base $375K

Exceptions:
2023 CRV base is $369K but arriving too late October
2023 XTrail E- Power is $375K but massy is having issues with the electric tax exemption and sales of it are on hold

Any advice? Anything to stay away from?

Thanks!!


Its interesting you brought up that point about the X Trail Power. For a while now I had questions as to how grey market dealers are selling the E Force version in the hybrid at a low price even Massy is selling the E force version at what looks like a tax exempted price but the thing is the E force version which is the 4wd has the 2 electric motors. As a result it produces more kw than the amount allowed under the tax exemption. Honestly confused :|


Whats the maximum KW motor output does the hybrid exemptions allow up to?

User avatar
carluva
Shifting into 6th
Posts: 1992
Joined: October 3rd, 2005, 2:03 pm
Location: Down in the homeland

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby carluva » May 27th, 2023, 2:45 pm

None

No vehicle reaches "end of company life" after 5 years. Warranty may be done but that does not mean the vehicle is as well.

That vehicle will last as long as it's well maintained.

Take the 6800 and invest in property instead of a depreciating asset.
jsm1985 wrote:Need some feedback from you guys:
Been hitting the new car dealer circuit to replace my 2018 Mazda CX-5 which is now at the end of its 5 year company provided life.

Basically have an allowance of $6800/ month to work with.

I could go with either purchasing on my own or a leasing company.

Options based on price range are:

Kia Sportage 1.6T LX mid spec $280K - no GT Line stock
Hyundai Tucson 1.6T mid spec $309K
Nissan Qashqai 1.3T mid or high spec $309K or $355K
Mazda CX-5 2.0 Facelift mid spec $365K (basically the same car I have now, love it and no issues but also don’t want to get the same car)
BMW X1 1.5T base $370K
Audi Q3 base $375K

Exceptions:
2023 CRV base is $369K but arriving too late October
2023 XTrail E- Power is $375K but massy is having issues with the electric tax exemption and sales of it are on hold

Any advice? Anything to stay away from?

Thanks!!

adnj
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: February 24th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby adnj » May 27th, 2023, 3:56 pm

drchaos wrote:
Alpha_2nr wrote:
drchaos wrote:
scotty_buttons wrote:
drchaos wrote:
zando wrote:
drchaos wrote:
scotty_buttons wrote:On another note,

Any new model Vezel owners here?

How’s the economy with the new Electric motor / Gas engine generator setup?

Much better than the outgoing vezel?

Any issues?

I’ve read and heard the yaris cross gets better economy than the new vezel too.
Only con with the Yaris cross is headroom is kinda cramped. I’m 5 8 and my head hits the headliner.

Looking for a small SUV for a long commute. Must be getting more than 500kms on a tank As economical as possible. Reliable. Easy resale as i don’t plan to keep it more than 3 years. 20% highway. 80% ‘B roads.’

Doesn’t have to be new. Can be local used as well.

And no, Aqua isn’t an option. Something a little more spacious.


Best friend has the new Vezel, should be way better than the outgoing model. The hybrid system is way better than the last gen which had a dual clutch set-up and had numerous recalls in Japan. This one just has a single gear transfer case.
He said gas mileage is amazing, Yaris cross will be better with fuel economy but a bit more limp.
Yaris cross should have better resale.
So the issues I heard about those vezels having were for the old models? The new ones better right? Them thing selling like sauce doubles yes.


Yes older models had transmission issues. New model is a totally new drivetrain design.
Below 80Km and the car is an EV with the engine charging the battery.
Over 80Km and the engine has direct connection with the wheels and drives the car via transfer case with no gears to change.

so very simple setup and has been used in other honda cars like the accord and fit earlier with little to no problems and now in the CRV and the Vezel.

Keep your AC very cold with the new hybrids since the batteries are air cooled and make sure the fan and vent system is getting cool air to the battery and they should last very long.

I thought the face lifted older vezels sorted their transmission issues. If not then I’ll void them.
I’m guessing the Nissan Kicks should be reliable as well cuz they use the same theoretical drivetrain.
Can’t seem to find any other cars that has similar engine/transmission setup.

My only concern is the battery lifetime as these smaller capacity batteries would be recharging and discharging more often than say a full electric car with a much larger battery and would result in decreased battery lifetime.


My advice is stay away from dry dual clutch transmission ... They tend to have software issues, not made for traffic constant stop and go, overheat. Bad tech even if the manufacturer has claimed to have "fixed" it.

Difference between the vezel and kicks is that vezel will use electric motors and low speed and highway speeds will use the engine to drive the wheels. Kicks will only use the electric motors all the time. So vezel is slightly more complicated drivetrain wise.
Vezel is also easier to service the batteries, meaning to clean out the fan/air filters and battery pack.
Kicks battery is located under the front seat and transmission shifter so plenty work to get at it.

Battery should not give you much trouble for 7-8 years. The battery charge is balanced between 30 to 70 % so very little ware and tear over the years. Just keep your AC cold cause the batteries are air cooled. Deep discharge cycles and heat is what destroys Li ion batteries.


Wait....what?

Keeping the interior AC cold to help protect the battery packs/modules on a hybrid?

The same battery packs that are in shielded containment separate from (i.e. outside of the interior cabin,) and cooled by separate ducting/duty systems?


The latest HRV has a duct next to the back seat that pulls air from the air conditioned cabin using a circular blower type fan and flows around the battery pack and is then ducted out of the vehicle.

In addition the Aqua, ioniq and nissan epower systems all use air from the air conditioned cabin with fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXp_3Awb-SQ&t=2s
The above link is from the is from the automotive research and design hybrid training segments and they state clearly
Poor air condition performance or failure of the air condition system will shorten the lifespan of you battery.
Blocked air ducts or damaged fan blades from the blower will also shorten your battery lifespan.
Higher cabin temperatures also result in poor cooling performance of your battery.

Local hybrid mechanics I have spoken to do recommend cleaning/servicing the fan and ducts every 1-2 years to ensure your battery cooling is optimized. The newest aqua even now has an air filter in the duct entrance so service is easier and the fan gets less dust building up reducing performance.
Again, a well working HVAC system is a benefit for those designs that require cabin air for battery thermal management. Believing that AC set to maximum is the holy grail of battery life is a myth.

The LiIon battery has an operational characteristic that requires air flow between 20°C and 30/35°C depending on configuration and manufacturer. The LiIon chemistry temperature range is 20 - 40°C.

Maximum recorded ambient air temperature at Piarco was 36.5°C. If you are concerned about battery life, the problem is not going to be heavily biased toward battery cooling during vehicle operation. It will be battery cooling while parked at midday. If the vehicle were operated in an equatorial desert, cabin air cooling during operation would be a more germane topic.

Keep the vehicle interior cool while parked and vent the cabin immediately for maximum battery life. A healthy AC will help but it won't help much for the average tropical island battery pack.

User avatar
drchaos
punchin NOS
Posts: 4337
Joined: February 5th, 2013, 3:56 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby drchaos » May 27th, 2023, 4:49 pm

adnj wrote:
drchaos wrote:
Alpha_2nr wrote:
drchaos wrote:
scotty_buttons wrote:
drchaos wrote:
zando wrote:
drchaos wrote:
Best friend has the new Vezel, should be way better than the outgoing model. The hybrid system is way better than the last gen which had a dual clutch set-up and had numerous recalls in Japan. This one just has a single gear transfer case.
He said gas mileage is amazing, Yaris cross will be better with fuel economy but a bit more limp.
Yaris cross should have better resale.
So the issues I heard about those vezels having were for the old models? The new ones better right? Them thing selling like sauce doubles yes.


Yes older models had transmission issues. New model is a totally new drivetrain design.
Below 80Km and the car is an EV with the engine charging the battery.
Over 80Km and the engine has direct connection with the wheels and drives the car via transfer case with no gears to change.

so very simple setup and has been used in other honda cars like the accord and fit earlier with little to no problems and now in the CRV and the Vezel.

Keep your AC very cold with the new hybrids since the batteries are air cooled and make sure the fan and vent system is getting cool air to the battery and they should last very long.

I thought the face lifted older vezels sorted their transmission issues. If not then I’ll void them.
I’m guessing the Nissan Kicks should be reliable as well cuz they use the same theoretical drivetrain.
Can’t seem to find any other cars that has similar engine/transmission setup.

My only concern is the battery lifetime as these smaller capacity batteries would be recharging and discharging more often than say a full electric car with a much larger battery and would result in decreased battery lifetime.


My advice is stay away from dry dual clutch transmission ... They tend to have software issues, not made for traffic constant stop and go, overheat. Bad tech even if the manufacturer has claimed to have "fixed" it.

Difference between the vezel and kicks is that vezel will use electric motors and low speed and highway speeds will use the engine to drive the wheels. Kicks will only use the electric motors all the time. So vezel is slightly more complicated drivetrain wise.
Vezel is also easier to service the batteries, meaning to clean out the fan/air filters and battery pack.
Kicks battery is located under the front seat and transmission shifter so plenty work to get at it.

Battery should not give you much trouble for 7-8 years. The battery charge is balanced between 30 to 70 % so very little ware and tear over the years. Just keep your AC cold cause the batteries are air cooled. Deep discharge cycles and heat is what destroys Li ion batteries.


Wait....what?

Keeping the interior AC cold to help protect the battery packs/modules on a hybrid?

The same battery packs that are in shielded containment separate from (i.e. outside of the interior cabin,) and cooled by separate ducting/duty systems?


The latest HRV has a duct next to the back seat that pulls air from the air conditioned cabin using a circular blower type fan and flows around the battery pack and is then ducted out of the vehicle.

In addition the Aqua, ioniq and nissan epower systems all use air from the air conditioned cabin with fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXp_3Awb-SQ&t=2s
The above link is from the is from the automotive research and design hybrid training segments and they state clearly
Poor air condition performance or failure of the air condition system will shorten the lifespan of you battery.
Blocked air ducts or damaged fan blades from the blower will also shorten your battery lifespan.
Higher cabin temperatures also result in poor cooling performance of your battery.

Local hybrid mechanics I have spoken to do recommend cleaning/servicing the fan and ducts every 1-2 years to ensure your battery cooling is optimized. The newest aqua even now has an air filter in the duct entrance so service is easier and the fan gets less dust building up reducing performance.
Again, a well working HVAC system is a benefit for those designs that require cabin air for battery thermal management. Believing that AC set to maximum is the holy grail of battery life is a myth.

The LiIon battery has an operational characteristic that requires air flow between 20°C and 30/35°C depending on configuration and manufacturer. The LiIon chemistry temperature range is 20 - 40°C.

Maximum recorded ambient air temperature at Piarco was 36.5°C. If you are concerned about battery life, the problem is not going to be heavily biased toward battery cooling during vehicle operation. It will be battery cooling while parked at midday. If the vehicle were operated in an equatorial desert, cabin air cooling during operation would be a more germane topic.

Keep the vehicle interior cool while parked and vent the cabin immediately for maximum battery life. A healthy AC will help but it won't help much for the average tropical island battery pack.


"A healthy AC will help"
Lol all that to admit I was right?
Congrats it takes alot of courage to admit you were wrong.

So yes folks running 20C air from your AC over your hybrid battery will help in better cooling your battery/helping its longevity as it produces heat from recharge/discharging vs running 35C air over your battery pack.

adnj
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: February 24th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby adnj » May 27th, 2023, 5:13 pm

drchaos wrote:
adnj wrote:
drchaos wrote:
Alpha_2nr wrote:
drchaos wrote:
scotty_buttons wrote:
drchaos wrote:
zando wrote:So the issues I heard about those vezels having were for the old models? The new ones better right? Them thing selling like sauce doubles yes.


Yes older models had transmission issues. New model is a totally new drivetrain design.
Below 80Km and the car is an EV with the engine charging the battery.
Over 80Km and the engine has direct connection with the wheels and drives the car via transfer case with no gears to change.

so very simple setup and has been used in other honda cars like the accord and fit earlier with little to no problems and now in the CRV and the Vezel.

Keep your AC very cold with the new hybrids since the batteries are air cooled and make sure the fan and vent system is getting cool air to the battery and they should last very long.

I thought the face lifted older vezels sorted their transmission issues. If not then I’ll void them.
I’m guessing the Nissan Kicks should be reliable as well cuz they use the same theoretical drivetrain.
Can’t seem to find any other cars that has similar engine/transmission setup.

My only concern is the battery lifetime as these smaller capacity batteries would be recharging and discharging more often than say a full electric car with a much larger battery and would result in decreased battery lifetime.


My advice is stay away from dry dual clutch transmission ... They tend to have software issues, not made for traffic constant stop and go, overheat. Bad tech even if the manufacturer has claimed to have "fixed" it.

Difference between the vezel and kicks is that vezel will use electric motors and low speed and highway speeds will use the engine to drive the wheels. Kicks will only use the electric motors all the time. So vezel is slightly more complicated drivetrain wise.
Vezel is also easier to service the batteries, meaning to clean out the fan/air filters and battery pack.
Kicks battery is located under the front seat and transmission shifter so plenty work to get at it.

Battery should not give you much trouble for 7-8 years. The battery charge is balanced between 30 to 70 % so very little ware and tear over the years. Just keep your AC cold cause the batteries are air cooled. Deep discharge cycles and heat is what destroys Li ion batteries.


Wait....what?

Keeping the interior AC cold to help protect the battery packs/modules on a hybrid?

The same battery packs that are in shielded containment separate from (i.e. outside of the interior cabin,) and cooled by separate ducting/duty systems?


The latest HRV has a duct next to the back seat that pulls air from the air conditioned cabin using a circular blower type fan and flows around the battery pack and is then ducted out of the vehicle.

In addition the Aqua, ioniq and nissan epower systems all use air from the air conditioned cabin with fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXp_3Awb-SQ&t=2s
The above link is from the is from the automotive research and design hybrid training segments and they state clearly
Poor air condition performance or failure of the air condition system will shorten the lifespan of you battery.
Blocked air ducts or damaged fan blades from the blower will also shorten your battery lifespan.
Higher cabin temperatures also result in poor cooling performance of your battery.

Local hybrid mechanics I have spoken to do recommend cleaning/servicing the fan and ducts every 1-2 years to ensure your battery cooling is optimized. The newest aqua even now has an air filter in the duct entrance so service is easier and the fan gets less dust building up reducing performance.
Again, a well working HVAC system is a benefit for those designs that require cabin air for battery thermal management. Believing that AC set to maximum is the holy grail of battery life is a myth.

The LiIon battery has an operational characteristic that requires air flow between 20°C and 30/35°C depending on configuration and manufacturer. The LiIon chemistry temperature range is 20 - 40°C.

Maximum recorded ambient air temperature at Piarco was 36.5°C. If you are concerned about battery life, the problem is not going to be heavily biased toward battery cooling during vehicle operation. It will be battery cooling while parked at midday. If the vehicle were operated in an equatorial desert, cabin air cooling during operation would be a more germane topic.

Keep the vehicle interior cool while parked and vent the cabin immediately for maximum battery life. A healthy AC will help but it won't help much for the average tropical island battery pack.


"A healthy AC will help"
Lol all that to admit I was right?
Congrats it takes alot of courage to admit you were wrong.

So yes folks running 20C air from your AC over your hybrid battery will help in better cooling your battery/helping its longevity as it produces heat from recharge/discharging vs running 35C air over your battery pack.


You aren't correct.

A healthy AC while the vehicle is in stop and go traffic will help cool it when the ambient temperature is well into the upper 30s.

What you posted was:
"Keep your AC very cold with the new hybrids since the batteries are air cooled and make sure the fan and vent system is getting cool air to the battery and they should last very long."

If it's the Middle East, North Africa or the Desert Southwest (40 - 50+°C), then yes. In Trinidad, no.

I'll just add this to the list of topics that you just don't understand.

User avatar
Shalom Vanamson
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 173
Joined: July 1st, 2012, 5:31 pm
Location: Trinidad

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Shalom Vanamson » May 28th, 2023, 10:48 pm

drchaos wrote:
Shalom Vanamson wrote:
jsm1985 wrote:Need some feedback from you guys:
Been hitting the new car dealer circuit to replace my 2018 Mazda CX-5 which is now at the end of its 5 year company provided life.

Basically have an allowance of $6800/ month to work with.

I could go with either purchasing on my own or a leasing company.

Options based on price range are:

Kia Sportage 1.6T LX mid spec $280K - no GT Line stock
Hyundai Tucson 1.6T mid spec $309K
Nissan Qashqai 1.3T mid or high spec $309K or $355K
Mazda CX-5 2.0 Facelift mid spec $365K (basically the same car I have now, love it and no issues but also don’t want to get the same car)
BMW X1 1.5T base $370K
Audi Q3 base $375K

Exceptions:
2023 CRV base is $369K but arriving too late October
2023 XTrail E- Power is $375K but massy is having issues with the electric tax exemption and sales of it are on hold

Any advice? Anything to stay away from?

Thanks!!


Its interesting you brought up that point about the X Trail Power. For a while now I had questions as to how grey market dealers are selling the E Force version in the hybrid at a low price even Massy is selling the E force version at what looks like a tax exempted price but the thing is the E force version which is the 4wd has the 2 electric motors. As a result it produces more kw than the amount allowed under the tax exemption. Honestly confused :|


Whats the maximum KW motor output does the hybrid exemptions allow up to?


105 kW is the maximum allowed output under the exemption.

User avatar
A172
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6494
Joined: August 11th, 2008, 3:48 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby A172 » May 29th, 2023, 1:06 pm

Xtrail E-Power subject to duties & taxes, confirmed

User avatar
death365
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1821
Joined: June 24th, 2013, 2:30 pm
Location: San Juan

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby death365 » May 29th, 2023, 5:13 pm

The hilux design is so dated now .... when are they going to refresh it...


Imagine the Isuzu pickup looking better than it now a days .

adnj
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: February 24th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby adnj » May 29th, 2023, 6:35 pm

death365 wrote:The hilux design is so dated now .... when are they going to refresh it...


Imagine the Isuzu pickup looking better than it now a days .
It's due in two years and will get styling cues from the Tacoma.

User avatar
PariaMan
punchin NOS
Posts: 3179
Joined: July 9th, 2010, 10:38 am

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby PariaMan » May 29th, 2023, 9:58 pm

That new tacoma!

Really nice. I hope the hilux looks the same
Screenshot_20230529_215733_Chrome.jpg

User avatar
metalgear2095
12 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2261
Joined: December 6th, 2004, 1:18 pm
Location: Outside

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby metalgear2095 » May 29th, 2023, 10:03 pm

That looks fugly. Too busy

User avatar
telfer
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 511
Joined: November 21st, 2004, 6:16 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby telfer » May 30th, 2023, 9:31 am

metalgear2095 wrote:Ansa reps have been saying all Rangers will come with the new biturbo engine but it seems only the Wildtrak will. Have not seen one review online where the biturbo is paired with a 6 speed [img]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230508/a0d0fc57ef4fd9f04667159e530f8197.jpg[/img]

Correct ….the XLT and XLT sport come 2.0 single turbo with the 6 speed transmission $369k and $389k respectively
The wild track is the 2.0bi turbo with the 10speed transmission $489k
The raptor is also coming in a couple of months with the 3.0 v6 turbo gas engine should be around $650k

User avatar
metalgear2095
12 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2261
Joined: December 6th, 2004, 1:18 pm
Location: Outside

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby metalgear2095 » May 30th, 2023, 11:27 am

So for 100k more you get Wildtrak badging, more powerful engine, 10 speed transmission, bigger rims and all terrain tires and a plug in the tray. Silly how ansa choose to lock the biturbo behind a 100k paywall when the old model had the 3.2 available to lesser variants

adnj
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 10073
Joined: February 24th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby adnj » May 30th, 2023, 3:35 pm

death365 wrote:The hilux design is so dated now .... when are they going to refresh it...


Imagine the Isuzu pickup looking better than it now a days .
Here's the new 2025 Toyota HiLux with a tougher Tacoma-inspired look
The next HiLux is rumoured to share its underpinnings with American pick-ups – and if it looks like this, it'll be off to a good start

Image


https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/2024-t ... x-rendered

User avatar
jsm1985
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 324
Joined: December 3rd, 2007, 8:24 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby jsm1985 » May 31st, 2023, 10:53 am

A172 wrote:Xtrail E-Power subject to duties & taxes, confirmed


So we're looking at around $500K now for this. I'm guessing most of the orders at $375K are going to fall through.

User avatar
greggle71
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 609
Joined: March 26th, 2008, 10:13 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby greggle71 » May 31st, 2023, 6:15 pm

jsm1985 wrote:
A172 wrote:Xtrail E-Power subject to duties & taxes, confirmed


So we're looking at around $500K now for this. I'm guessing most of the orders at $375K are going to fall through.


Unfortunate if that be the case, that is in Santa Fe and Sorento range but a smaller vehicle comparatively

User avatar
A172
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6494
Joined: August 11th, 2008, 3:48 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby A172 » May 31st, 2023, 6:59 pm

jsm1985 wrote:
A172 wrote:Xtrail E-Power subject to duties & taxes, confirmed


So we're looking at around $500K now for this. I'm guessing most of the orders at $375K are going to fall through.
unlikely, the same ppl qualify for $400k loan would gt for 500k

u feel dem gonna let their neighbour see them pull up in a Hyundai?

User avatar
Shalom Vanamson
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 173
Joined: July 1st, 2012, 5:31 pm
Location: Trinidad

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Shalom Vanamson » May 31st, 2023, 9:42 pm

jsm1985 wrote:
A172 wrote:Xtrail E-Power subject to duties & taxes, confirmed


So we're looking at around $500K now for this. I'm guessing most of the orders at $375K are going to fall through.


If thats the case how come Grey market dealers brought them down for low 300k you would say well its not the eforce version with the 2 electric motors but Ive seen some that are the Eforce with the twin motors and they were sold for 400k brand new.

User avatar
jsm1985
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 324
Joined: December 3rd, 2007, 8:24 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby jsm1985 » June 1st, 2023, 12:03 pm

Shalom Vanamson wrote:
jsm1985 wrote:
A172 wrote:Xtrail E-Power subject to duties & taxes, confirmed


So we're looking at around $500K now for this. I'm guessing most of the orders at $375K are going to fall through.


If thats the case how come Grey market dealers brought them down for low 300k you would say well its not the eforce version with the 2 electric motors but Ive seen some that are the Eforce with the twin motors and they were sold for 400k brand new.



Apparently the ministry only looked into it in detail when Massy brought in their first shipment. Guess the grey market dealers got lucky but will probably have to pay the same taxes on the next shipments.

User avatar
drchaos
punchin NOS
Posts: 4337
Joined: February 5th, 2013, 3:56 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby drchaos » June 1st, 2023, 11:29 pm

jsm1985 wrote:
Shalom Vanamson wrote:
jsm1985 wrote:
A172 wrote:Xtrail E-Power subject to duties & taxes, confirmed


So we're looking at around $500K now for this. I'm guessing most of the orders at $375K are going to fall through.


If thats the case how come Grey market dealers brought them down for low 300k you would say well its not the eforce version with the 2 electric motors but Ive seen some that are the Eforce with the twin motors and they were sold for 400k brand new.



Apparently the ministry only looked into it in detail when Massy brought in their first shipment. Guess the grey market dealers got lucky but will probably have to pay the same taxes on the next shipments.


Massy had to go and spoil de party for everyone ... :cry:

User avatar
Shalom Vanamson
3NE 2NR for life
Posts: 173
Joined: July 1st, 2012, 5:31 pm
Location: Trinidad

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby Shalom Vanamson » June 2nd, 2023, 10:52 am

drchaos wrote:
jsm1985 wrote:
Shalom Vanamson wrote:
jsm1985 wrote:
A172 wrote:Xtrail E-Power subject to duties & taxes, confirmed


So we're looking at around $500K now for this. I'm guessing most of the orders at $375K are going to fall through.


If thats the case how come Grey market dealers brought them down for low 300k you would say well its not the eforce version with the 2 electric motors but Ive seen some that are the Eforce with the twin motors and they were sold for 400k brand new.



Apparently the ministry only looked into it in detail when Massy brought in their first shipment. Guess the grey market dealers got lucky but will probably have to pay the same taxes on the next shipments.


Massy had to go and spoil de party for everyone ... :cry:


Ent :lol:

But shouodnt be a big deal if Massy really wants to sell a midszide SUV for around that price there is still the Santa Fe Hybrid and Plug in Hybrid the kW on those will comply even the Tucson has Hybrids. If Southern Sales was smart they would bring down the Sorento Hybrids and Sportage Hybrids. Time will tell I guess.

User avatar
jsm1985
Sweet on this forum
Posts: 324
Joined: December 3rd, 2007, 8:24 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby jsm1985 » June 2nd, 2023, 3:33 pm

Shalom Vanamson wrote:
drchaos wrote:
jsm1985 wrote:
Shalom Vanamson wrote:
jsm1985 wrote:
A172 wrote:Xtrail E-Power subject to duties & taxes, confirmed


So we're looking at around $500K now for this. I'm guessing most of the orders at $375K are going to fall through.


If thats the case how come Grey market dealers brought them down for low 300k you would say well its not the eforce version with the 2 electric motors but Ive seen some that are the Eforce with the twin motors and they were sold for 400k brand new.



Apparently the ministry only looked into it in detail when Massy brought in their first shipment. Guess the grey market dealers got lucky but will probably have to pay the same taxes on the next shipments.


Massy had to go and spoil de party for everyone ... :cry:


Ent :lol:

But shouodnt be a big deal if Massy really wants to sell a midszide SUV for around that price there is still the Santa Fe Hybrid and Plug in Hybrid the kW on those will comply even the Tucson has Hybrids. If Southern Sales was smart they would bring down the Sorento Hybrids and Sportage Hybrids. Time will tell I guess.


The semiconductor shortage globally is still severely affecting new car shipments - particularly tech-heavy models and hybrids that use more electronics.

So it's not a matter of what they want to bring but really what they are sending to these 3rd world markets.

In all of these cars we're getting models with very basic infotainment systems and screens and less tech.

User avatar
drchaos
punchin NOS
Posts: 4337
Joined: February 5th, 2013, 3:56 pm

Re: T&T OFFICIAL New Vehicle Prices & Discussion Thread

Postby drchaos » June 3rd, 2023, 2:04 am

jsm1985 wrote:
Shalom Vanamson wrote:
drchaos wrote:
jsm1985 wrote:
Shalom Vanamson wrote:
jsm1985 wrote:
A172 wrote:Xtrail E-Power subject to duties & taxes, confirmed


So we're looking at around $500K now for this. I'm guessing most of the orders at $375K are going to fall through.


If thats the case how come Grey market dealers brought them down for low 300k you would say well its not the eforce version with the 2 electric motors but Ive seen some that are the Eforce with the twin motors and they were sold for 400k brand new.



Apparently the ministry only looked into it in detail when Massy brought in their first shipment. Guess the grey market dealers got lucky but will probably have to pay the same taxes on the next shipments.


Massy had to go and spoil de party for everyone ... :cry:


Ent :lol:

But shouodnt be a big deal if Massy really wants to sell a midszide SUV for around that price there is still the Santa Fe Hybrid and Plug in Hybrid the kW on those will comply even the Tucson has Hybrids. If Southern Sales was smart they would bring down the Sorento Hybrids and Sportage Hybrids. Time will tell I guess.


The semiconductor shortage globally is still severely affecting new car shipments - particularly tech-heavy models and hybrids that use more electronics.

So it's not a matter of what they want to bring but really what they are sending to these 3rd world markets.

In all of these cars we're getting models with very basic infotainment systems and screens and less tech.


I feel thats just a shitty excuse the MAssy sales team will use so they can order lower tech and sell you at higher prices.

Even before a semiconductor shortage they were doing this.

Advertisement

Return to “The Car Park”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests