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B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

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NR8
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B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby NR8 » January 15th, 2012, 10:25 am

I recently bought a f.u. B12 with stock GA15S carbureted engine and now it's burning oil. It's my first car so I would like to know if it would make sense to just rebuild the engine with new piston rings, re-bore cylinder walls, etc. or replace it altogether with a newer engine. What would be costs of rebuilding vs. newer engine & which engines would be compatible? Whichever is more cost effective would be better for me as I'm a university student and don't have tons to spend.
I'm not looking for turbo or anything like that, just want the car to run economical and reliable as I use it as a daily driver. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by NR8 on February 18th, 2012, 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby ddog » January 15th, 2012, 2:19 pm

It would be nice to swap in a fuel injected GA or QG engine but with the price engines are costing post tsunami it may cost you cheaper to just rebuild what you have. At least that way you know you would have a reliable engine after a proper rebuild. My advice is compare the cost of the rebuild against that of an engine conversion.

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby ddog » January 15th, 2012, 2:27 pm

Current cost of a GA, QG and SR engine conversion would run you up to around $6500, maybe a little more depending on where you go.

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby black start » January 16th, 2012, 1:56 am

ga15de (b14 engine) can fit in b12 without any fab work being done....just need to use the correct mounts and modify the engine mount slightly(not stipulation)....ga15de still realtively cheapish and is very economical once serviced properly. once installed PROPERLY is very reliable and is reasonably quick on a light chassis car like a b12. If it were up to me i would have gone with the ga15de and a small brake upgrade and everything good to go....

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby NR8 » January 16th, 2012, 1:23 pm

Thanks fellas!

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby black start » January 16th, 2012, 6:42 pm

np....you get thru?

NR8
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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby NR8 » January 17th, 2012, 6:17 pm

Dred my camshaft break this last weekend. Sigh.
F.U. places wanted $2000 for carbureted b13 head and block, $3200 for b14 engine. I end up taking a QG15DE. $2500 complete engine but I get it for $2000 without alternator and compressor since I could use back mine.
You think that's a good deal?

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby NR8 » January 17th, 2012, 6:21 pm

I had repaired my a/c last year and put in a b14 compressor, so that should hold up.

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby black start » January 17th, 2012, 11:03 pm

NR8 wrote:Dred my camshaft break this last weekend. Sigh.
F.U. places wanted $2000 for carbureted b13 head and block, $3200 for b14 engine. I end up taking a QG15DE. $2500 complete engine but I get it for $2000 without alternator and compressor since I could use back mine.
You think that's a good deal?


the ac compressor that comes with the ga15s was desinged for use with the r12 refrigerant, which is now banned due to its negative effect on the environment and is now unavailable. You should have taken the qg15de compressor and alternator as the qg15de uses a groove belt and the ga15s uses a flat belt so it will cost you less just to get the qg15de compressor and alternator.
and what about the transmission?


other than that, qg15de is a sweet engine, reliable, economical and would pull real good once installed correctly.

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby NR8 » January 18th, 2012, 7:04 am

No no I had replaced the original ga15s compressor earlier with the b14 one, ga15de. I believe my alternator is ga15s model though, I really didn't know the belts were different in the qg or else I would've taken the complete engine.
As for the tranny, I have one from a b13/b14 iirc in it right now(bought the car with that in it) which I plan to use with the qg.

I did some searching on the forum and saw people sayin that they get 400-450 km on a single tanks of gas from a qg15de! Sounds sweet!

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby GA15DE-T » January 24th, 2012, 7:33 pm

QG15 could never stand up like Ah GA15DE

GA15DE is boss engine

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THE SYNDICATE
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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby THE SYNDICATE » January 24th, 2012, 8:30 pm

^^this guy can vouch for the GA,i kid u not!

listen to him!

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby GA15DE-T » February 14th, 2012, 9:13 pm

lol he got the QG instead.....

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THE SYNDICATE
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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby THE SYNDICATE » February 15th, 2012, 7:50 am

^To each his own eh bro...it is a newer series engine and i guess how many people can say they have a 'QG' in a 12!

everyone u ask will say they either stock,sr or ga!

IMO he should have gone with the GA! A properly functioning and tuned one and the possibilities are,well u get the idea! you're proof of it right there! ;)

*op how the car wukkin? :D*

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby NR8 » February 18th, 2012, 11:27 pm

It's working good so far. I ended up choosing the QG because it was $1500 less than the GA! It also seems to be more widely available so parts shouldn't be a problem to acquire. It fitted nicely, all my mounts were reused with the exception of the left side, a slightly modified B15 one was used there. The air box was removed and a cone filter is now being used. B12 header was used to avoid cutting & welding, QG O2 sensor was plugged into it. Changed belts. Nothing was done to the engine when installed though, plugs were good, oil was almost golden. Mech said run it for a month while the warranty lasted just in case.
So far it's been a lot better on gas consumption than the GA15s, I got about 200km on the half tank it had when it came back from the garage with conservative driving and little use of a/c. You guys think this is good?

There are some small issues to be sorted out though:
1. All gauges in the instrument panel are working again except the tachometer. Was told that the tach has to be connected to the ecu as opposed to coil in old engine. Looking for a reputable electrician in South to fix this.

2. The coolant temperature gauge is always at half now. If idling or driving slowly it goes up a little bit. This is with no thermostat. With old engine, temp gauge never went up to half. Actually when the QG was put in, it too was reading around this same temp but the ct sending unit looked bad. So unit from old engine (which was new) was put in QG & now getting these readings. Is this how it's supposed to read?

3. Those of you with B12s may know that on the firewall there is a bronze coloured metal plate next to the booster. This was removed and the hole beneath it widened to fit the ecu harness. The thing is, it doesn't fit snug, there are spaces right round the harness. I'm worried about water getting through there and affecting the ecu. The areosol canned spray foam came to mind for filling up the gap. If this is not suitable what do you suggest?

4. Just WTK, where's the port on the ecu for connecting a diagnostic scanner? There doesn't seem to be one. All the outlets on it have wires connected.
Also, what do you think abt the placement of the ecu? It's not screwed down or secured to anything, but with all the wires and harnesses behind there it doesn't move.

5. When cold starting, I get white smoke and droplets of water out of the muffler. Not just on mornings but whenever I first cold start for the day, evenings too. Even if, let's say I start at morning with the smoke & water, drive and park up whole day, in the evening when the engine is cold and I start, I will get the smoke. It won't smoke when it's warmed up though. Why is this?

Photo0025.jpg
QG15DE engine


Photo0029.jpg
Hole in firewall for harness.






Photo0021.jpg
Placement of ECU


Lastly, I apologize for such a long post! :oops: I hope people will benefit from my experience. Dunno what I woulda do without tuner yes. :fadein:
Last edited by NR8 on November 11th, 2012, 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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THE SYNDICATE
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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby THE SYNDICATE » February 20th, 2012, 5:54 am

op,looking good.

the temp needle reads correct to me.

mpg is ok too!

pitt to damn expensive,i sell my COMPLETE dash with harness to, for $400

u can fabricate a rubber grommet or seal the hole with silicone if u afraid of water getting inside!

scanner port had to be wired in.u need to get a connector from an old harness.

try a tach adapter,if it doesnt work,call 790 9900.tell him shiva with the b12 give u this no. to inquire about wiring the tach!

install looking good man.. :)

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby NR8 » February 20th, 2012, 1:38 pm

Much thanks bro. Real relieved about the temperature now! And yeah, Pitt really expensive dread. Last year Oct/November I saw he had the original B12 engine, both carb & fi for $4000 & $5000 each! I must say they were in good condition though, like new. Last month when I went to get the QG, they were still there.

About the connector from an old harness, you mean an old QG15de harness? Would f.u. places sell that separate or would I have to buy the whole harness?

And the tachometer adapter, where would I get that?

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THE SYNDICATE
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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby THE SYNDICATE » February 23rd, 2012, 12:31 pm

u can get a diagnostic port to buy from a old harness,jus look around.tac adapters are selling on the forums,take a browse,i'm sure u might find one!

*i'm looking for a set of plastic door visors and a gas gauge.if u can put ur hands on them or point me in the direction that has them,i would appreciate it alot.thanks.*

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby THE SYNDICATE » February 23rd, 2012, 1:37 pm

u can try something like this:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=355920&hilit=adapter

NR8
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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby NR8 » February 23rd, 2012, 6:58 pm

B12s had door visors? Hmm. And original B12 gauge right? No probs. I'll be on the lookout for them.

I didn't know the tach adapter would be so expensive! After searching the forum I'm wondering if I could just connect the wire from the ecu to the tach. if not then I guess I'll just have to buy it..cuz I eh know how exactly the qg idling since the swap!

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby THE SYNDICATE » February 23rd, 2012, 8:34 pm

yes b12's have visors both plastic and metal. yes an original b12 fuel injected gas tank gauge.

connect the wire if u wish and see if it works,worth a shot!

*my 8valve engine was distributor and when i changed to the sr it was the same. the tach wire for the 8 valve i took from the coil and for the sr i had the colour code.*

since ur qg is coil pack,i'm not sure. i'm a noob to those newer engines. :oops: use a test light when probing the wires from the ecu,that way if u probe the wrong wire the light will light and save u from smoke! :D

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby turbosingh » February 24th, 2012, 2:02 pm

Yo Syndicate yuh still have the 8 valve engine?

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THE SYNDICATE
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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby THE SYNDICATE » February 24th, 2012, 7:10 pm

turbosingh wrote:Yo Syndicate yuh still have the 8 valve engine?


sry bro....i sold it already!

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?

Postby sniper2616 » March 2nd, 2012, 11:55 am

NR8 wrote:Dred my camshaft break this last weekend. Sigh.
F.U. places wanted $2000 for carbureted b13 head and block, $3200 for b14 engine. I end up taking a QG15DE. $2500 complete engine but I get it for $2000 without alternator and compressor since I could use back mine.
You think that's a good deal?



when you did this conversion did you make any adjustment to the bottom crossmember mount and using brackets you used for either side of the engine ?

NR8
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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby NR8 » March 2nd, 2012, 5:26 pm

The only change done was swapping the left (driver side I mean) engine mount to a B15 one. All the other mounts were reused.

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby kirwin » December 4th, 2012, 6:36 pm

What engine mounts where used when u had your ga15 engine in the b12?Am currenty from st lucia and has drop in a ga15 into a b12 but need to know what mounts where used..

NR8
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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby NR8 » December 4th, 2012, 7:12 pm

All mounts used prior to the swap were the original B12 mounts

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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby kirwin » December 4th, 2012, 7:27 pm

U have any pictures of your engine when it was in your car?really need this car up 4 next year..

NR8
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Re: B12 GA15 rebuild or swap?*UPDATE*

Postby NR8 » December 4th, 2012, 10:33 pm

Sorry dude but no pics. Do a search on this forum's classifieds, there were a few B12s posted recently with pics of their the original engine. For example...
http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=467358&hilit=b12
http://www.trinituner.com/v3/forums/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=472571&hilit=b12



BTW are you referring to the GA15S or GA15DE?

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