the disc pad thread

[Alpha_2nr]

Jeff at tripoint engineering in the states compares these to hawks, compares them favourably in fact, says they are as good as or better than hawks.

I concur. They easily matched the HPS's I used (on the WRX), but just with better life and less dust.

I fuigure the HPS's would outperform them in a track scenario.......as the HPS's are slightly more performance oriented, but that's a limit most of us will hardly ever reach.

[Strugglerzinc]

Alpha, you used semi metallic or ceramic formulation.

Ghostbusters and libra on the Mazda side use the ceramics and love them.

[Alpha_2nr]

^^Semi metallic IIRC.

Here's a pic of the box (notice the Hawk package thrown down to the base of the box :lol: ) :




I went with the Posiquiets mainly for experimentation, and they were at an mighty good cost.

They're good....but OEM still is the best compromise for dust and stopping power (for a daily driver) IMHO.

[Strugglerzinc]

Thanks. Decision made.

[CD4Accord]

I'm reading alot of great reviews bout this...





They employ the +ve molding process identical to OEM , semi-metallic and less dust than OEM so for $48 bucks you just can't go wrong.

Massey wanted $1500 approx for the front oem

i using these a while now,the ceramic though, like strugglerz said, they need a lil warming up, but once warm the bite is great. Jeff at tripoint engineering in the states compares these to hawks, compares them favourably in fact, says they are as good as or better than hawks.
ceramic compound, no dust, no squeal, great price.ceramics also better on rotors than semi metallics...

I'm not really convinced...
Check this link from Stop Tech who actually manufactures the posi-quiet pads..
http://www.stoptech.com/Products/high_p ... pads.shtml

According to them at least, the semi-metallics are easier on the rotors than the ceramic.. This is consistent with all I have read over the years, that ceramic is harder on rotors than the comparable semi-metallic pad (ie. not performance oriented pad)...

That said, if the price is right I would consider the posi-quiet (either semi or ceramic) for the Cefiro, but up to now I cah get the right model number for the front pads so I don't know what I'm looking for..

[FullStop]

^^my bad, for some strange reason i thought it was teh other way around...

[wheel whores]

This phenomenon known as brake fade can be quite unexpected and lethal and I would hazard a guess that 1 in 4 cars are likely to experience brake fade to some degree. Brake fade manifests itself by a spongy feel on the pedal and little or no braking force. Do not confuse brake fade with bad brakes or a mechanical fault as it applies to brake systems in relatively good condition.
Brake fade

You are at greater risk from brake fade if you do not change your brake fluid frequently. As the brake fluid is Hygroscopic it draws in water which is the main problem. The fluid within the brake fluid boils and releases gases causing spongy braking as unlike fluids gases are compressible. A dot 5.1 brake fluid performs better and over a longer period of time without the issue of water retention.

The primary reason for brake fade in a good well maintained car is the heat build up which can adversely affect the friction and even cause warping or distortion of the brake components. Brake fade in these cases will still, usually, have a firm pedal but the conversion of momentum into heat cannot effectively happen so the car does not slow up.

A brake pad will start to smoke as it gets beyond its operating temperature, the layer of gas emitted will act as a lubricant between the two friction surfaces and will be manifest as ineffective brakes. The effectiveness of the friction surfaces also reduces as heat increases which is why performance brakes are designed to operate at a much higher temperature than OEM parts. (The obvious downside of performance brakes is poor cold braking, not something you want on a road car.)
All cars are susceptible to brake fade but driver habits can be a major cause, along with poor maintenance!

When you use your brakes you are converting the forward momentum of the car into heat. The heat will build up on the disks where it will be dissipated into the air. The pads will also get warm and this heat will also transfer along the pistons and calipers into the brake fluid and if water is present in the brake fluid you are very likely to experience brake fade as the water heats up and boils. The heat can also cause the brake hoses to expand a little reducing the hydraulic pressure even further.
Brake Pads

The first tip is somewhat obvious but I still see so many people doing this one. To avoid brake fade do not keep your brakes on when driving down a hill, change into a lower gear and let the engine maintain a safe speed for the car.

When people get to the bottom of a hill they suddenly realise that their brakes are no longer effective. (When the brakes get really warm you also run the risk of binding where the pads get "welded" to the brake disk)

Rather than brake heavily at the last minute try to spread your braking over a longer distance. An emergency stop from 70 is sometimes enough to cause brake fade and these higher speed speeds a failure of the brakes can be quite lethal. So jab the brakes quite hard at first and kill most of your forward momentum, the speed you are travelling at will help the disks to dissipate the heat and then reapply the brakes more gently bringing the car to a stop. If you have made heavy use of your brakes always assume that fade will manifest itself for the next few minutes and increase your distance from the car behind and keep your speed down a little.

On the track is not uncommon for the heat in the brakes to cause the disks to glow red or white hot and cheap pads have been known to smoke, a good quality pad for the track is designed to cope with the high temperatures and often not 100% effective until it warms up. When you have new brake pads or disks fitted you should use them gently at first as they will not be effective until they are properly bedded in.

Use a dot 5.1 brake fluid and change the brake fluid annually. Larger disks and high performance pads can also help minimise brake fade although at the extreme end they can exhibit very poor cold braking properties. See our article on brake uprating for some ideas and tips on uprating your brakes and further reduce your risk of experiencing brake fade.

[3stagevtec]

Got me some epic brake fade while coming down from Paramin once.. I did not want to place too much stress on my Automatic, so I was relying mainly on the brakes.. Once the fade started to get serious, I had to down shift to 1st and use engine braking to assist..

I am using Titanium brake pads (a German brand I believe). Have the current set in for about 2 years now and they are only about 1/2 way through their life. My vehicle is about 300lbs heavier than stock and running slightly taller tyres also, so the pads do work hard... Brake dust is not an issue as well as brake performance. No disappointments in this purchase. (Cost me about $110 a set IIRC)

[CD4Accord]

I'm pretty sure titanium isn't German seeing as its just about the cheapest pad on the market right now....
That said, if it works for you thats great...

I actually almost lost braking completely up in tobago once (even in 1st)... My handbrake is what saved the front of my car from a certain crash.. After THAT, i became anal about what fluid I use, how often it is changed and the importance of engine braking..

wheel whores... I honestly don't think DOT 5.1 is really necessary for the average person seeing as its rather hard to come by in Trinidad.. I would reccomend Castrol GT-LMA at about $35 a bottle which is a very good quality DOT 4, changed every 1.5 yrs or so...

Personally I use ATE SuperBlue Racing DOT 4, usually about 1.5 - 2yrs (tested with my beloved "phoenix systems brake strip"..

[wheel whores]

Got me some epic brake fade while coming down from Paramin once.. I did not want to place too much stress on my Automatic, so I was relying mainly on the brakes.. Once the fade started to get serious, I had to down shift to 1st and use engine braking to assist..

I am using Titanium brake pads (a German brand I believe). Have the current set in for about 2 years now and they are only about 1/2 way through their life. My vehicle is about 300lbs heavier than stock and running slightly taller tyres also, so the pads do work hard... Brake dust is not an issue as well as brake performance. No disappointments in this purchase. (Cost me about $110 a set IIRC)

Do not confuse brake fade with bad brakes or a mechanical fault as it applies to brake systems in relatively good condition.

[3stagevtec]

Got me some epic brake fade while coming down from Paramin once.. I did not want to place too much stress on my Automatic, so I was relying mainly on the brakes.. Once the fade started to get serious, I had to down shift to 1st and use engine braking to assist..

I am using Titanium brake pads (a German brand I believe). Have the current set in for about 2 years now and they are only about 1/2 way through their life. My vehicle is about 300lbs heavier than stock and running slightly taller tyres also, so the pads do work hard... Brake dust is not an issue as well as brake performance. No disappointments in this purchase. (Cost me about $110 a set IIRC)

Do not confuse brake fade with bad brakes or a mechanical fault as it applies to brake systems in relatively good condition.

eh!? Did I say something wrong??

btw, when copying articles, please quote the source.

http://www.torquecars.com/articles/brake-fade.php

[wheel whores]

ok i didn't think about that

[EVA Unit-01]

i believe those Titanium pads are full metallic, no? they're hard and are very long-lasting, as i know someone who uses them on a Lancer like mine due to the amount of runs he does...

this may be cause, as repeated hard braking (like coming down the mountains) may cause brake fade indeed...

[Chemical]

^^ Changed this over the W/E by myself. For me OEM or nothing...its alot more expensive prob. 3 to 4 times more over substitutes but its worth it !







This NZE has 4 wheel discs & believe me with OEM pads front & back, it can stop on a Nickle !

[~Vēġó~]

noticing my OEM disc pads cutting rotor on one front......lil circle at the end of pad closest to centre of rotor......wtf!!!!!!!!!!! I sure as hell didn't think that this crap would occur after paying all this $$$$ for OEM.....but car stops like wow (guess that's what I'm paying for eh).

[CD4Accord]

Just remember, NONE of the OEM brands make pads for themselves...

If you can find out what company makes the pad, then you can potentially save yourself at least 50% of pads..eg. OEM on my cd4 accord was Nissin, OEM on some nissans is Akebono,
OEM on my Volvo is ATE/Jurid etc...

[EVA Unit-01]

^yup, Mitsu OEM is either Akebono (Economy) or Sumitomo (Premium)

[DJ Q]

Hey Guys,

Just a thought...

I know it's extremely expensive, but I was actually thinking of upgrading from my standard front and rear disc brakes to a Brembo Big Brake Kit. I see them selling online for about US$3,000, but I don't think it includes the rear brakes. My car is not going to be used for racing or sport or anything like that, I just want to be able to stop really quickly. I have an entire plan for upgrading the safety and comfort of my car, including purchasing lowering struts and springs. I also LOVE the look of those nice bigggg brembos.

Would anyone advise against doing this?

Thanks

P.S. Not planning to do any engine mods/upgrades.

[3stagevtec]

Hey Guys,

Just a thought...

I know it's extremely expensive, but I was actually thinking of upgrading from my standard front and rear disc brakes to a Brembo Big Brake Kit. I see them selling online for about US$3,000, but I don't think it includes the rear brakes. My car is not going to be used for racing or sport or anything like that, I just want to be able to stop really quickly. I have an entire plan for upgrading the safety and comfort of my car, including purchasing lowering struts and springs. I also LOVE the look of those nice bigggg brembos.

Would anyone advise against doing this?

Thanks

P.S. Not planning to do any engine mods/upgrades.

Did you know that you can loose as much as 12hp buy upgrading to larger (i.e. heavier) rotors..

The best brake upgrade for a daily driver is going to a larger master cylinder & better performance oriented pads.. SS braided lines also..

Leave the big brake kits for the guys running high HP engines and seeing alot of track use.

[Chemical]

Just remember, NONE of the OEM brands make pads for themselves...

If you can find out what company makes the pad, then you can potentially save yourself at least 50% of pads..eg. OEM on my cd4 accord was Nissin, OEM on some nissans is Akebono,
OEM on my Volvo is ATE/Jurid etc...

^^Very true but I don't think one can order directly from Japan (brake pad manufacturer) it has to come out the states. There is a big diff. between USA & Japan products.

I just bite the bullet & buy it ....Pd. $800 V.I. @ Toyota but Nasco Barbados had it for $265.00 bds.

Before the new NZE 141 came out this identical pad I bought 3 yrs ago was $1200 + vat @ toyota TT pd BDS $225 @ conversion rate of TT $3.00 !

Conversion rate last week was TT $3.65.

[DJ Q]

Hey Guys,

Just a thought...

I know it's extremely expensive, but I was actually thinking of upgrading from my standard front and rear disc brakes to a Brembo Big Brake Kit. I see them selling online for about US$3,000, but I don't think it includes the rear brakes. My car is not going to be used for racing or sport or anything like that, I just want to be able to stop really quickly. I have an entire plan for upgrading the safety and comfort of my car, including purchasing lowering struts and springs. I also LOVE the look of those nice bigggg brembos.

Would anyone advise against doing this?

Thanks

P.S. Not planning to do any engine mods/upgrades.

Did you know that you can loose as much as 12hp buy upgrading to larger (i.e. heavier) rotors..

The best brake upgrade for a daily driver is going to a larger master cylinder & better performance oriented pads.. SS braided lines also..

Leave the big brake kits for the guys running high HP engines and seeing alot of track use.

Ok so aside from the slight HP loss is there any other drawback? I don't even use 30% of the power my car has because I never drive hard. I was looking at the lowest end of their line up. I saw a 4 Piston kit for a Civic which should line up for my car. It's about US$2,800.00 for the front.

[Strugglerzinc]

Close to $18k TT for a big brake setup on a vehicle that uses only 30% of the stock power is a significant drawback.

Did you also consider that with ABS and tire traction (or lack thereof), there's only so much braking force you can acquire, no matter how big brakes you have.

[CD4Accord]

Did it also occur to you that if you are only using 30% of your power, your stock brakes should be more than adequate?
Why not just upgrade what you have with better pads, SS lines and some racing braking fluid and see how you feel from there..

Total cost, about $300 US vs the $2800 (before shipping and insall) you talking about spending

[3stagevtec]

Fuel economy would drop as well.. gas not cheap..

To get what you are really looking for, the given recommendations are best. If you looking for a cosmetic upgrade, then get yourself some slotted or drilled rotors and some nice 'open' rims to show them off.

Another possibility is to do a brake swap from a similar vehicle with larger rotors. That way you don't loose much HP and fuel economy, but get a decent increase in braking force.. Note that the only way to realize the benefit of stronger brakes is to have proper tyres to match. Running your everyday hard compound tyre will negate the benefits.

[DJ Q]

Did it also occur to you that if you are only using 30% of your power, your stock brakes should be more than adequate?
Why not just upgrade what you have with better pads, SS lines and some racing braking fluid and see how you feel from there..

Total cost, about $300 US vs the $2800 (before shipping and insall) you talking about spending

Educate me on this.

Yes I like the look of Brembos, but I'm also a safety freak. The upgraded brakes is not for me to slow down at high speeds, but for me to stop better in the case of a stupid condition. These days with people crossing medians for style... I want to be able to protect myself a little more, so I was also going to upgrade my suspension to that of the sport model to my car so that I'd get better turning response and handling.

I'd also like to put on 18" rims with some drilled rotors

[X_Factor]

^ what kinda vehicle/engine

[DJ Q]

Rover 200
Original 1.6

[CD4Accord]

What tyres you currently have on your rover? I DOUBT that anything short of full racing compounds or slicks will be able to sufficiently handle the braking force of a big brake kit... Basically you would be wasting the braking force by either locking up or having ABS cutting in..

If you like the look of the brembo, investigate brembo sport slotted rotors (don't do the drilled), some hawk HPS pads and some racing fluid such as ATE SuperBlue or Motul RBF600 ...
Finally, goodridge, technafit and russel also make excellent stainless steel brake lines if you can find it for you application

[DJ Q]

Right now I have some foreign used tyres

When I get the 18's I want I'll get some Dunlops

What's the price of all those things you outlined there?

[Strugglerzinc]

I'm curious, you're a "safety freak" right?

You're speaking of $2800US brake kits yet you currently run FU tyres?

You are considering Dunlops in combination with said kit?

Do you understand the function tyres play in your safety and braking distance?