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Question on Refrigerant Gas

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krack korn
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Question on Refrigerant Gas

Postby krack korn » May 4th, 2007, 2:48 pm

I know some tuners work in the HVAC field so I thought I would ask here if anybody knows from experience.

My vehicle came with 134a gas, what gas(es) can I use to replace it and still retain compatiblity with the existing oil (synthetic polyol ester).

How do these work as compared to the 134a, for eg the old R12 was a more efficient refrigerant than the 134a so an R12 system would actually cool better if both systems were equal in other respects. What mass of gas and required pressures would be needed to be equivalent to the 134a, is there a factor to calculate this?

Can these replacement gasses be mixed? If for instance I have gas X and need a top up and the guy has gas Y which ones will be compatible.

Thanks

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eitech
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Postby eitech » May 4th, 2007, 8:23 pm

as we on dis topic, do i wait until mt a/c no tblowing cold to check/replace gas? or do they like do "top up" jobs or what have you?

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Dragsta
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Postby Dragsta » May 4th, 2007, 8:31 pm

na, i dont think they does "top up", they does have to empty it and re-Gas it..

abt KKorn question, well.....thats a Very "Expertise" question :|

nick009
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Postby nick009 » May 4th, 2007, 8:54 pm

well from what i know the required low pressure would be the pressure for the r134a such that its saturation temperature in the evaporator is equivalent to that of the r12 boiling temperature and high pressure the equivalent for the saturation temperature in the condenser .
i suppose you could get this information from an thermodynamic tables book for r134a
i suppose once u reach the required low pressure in the system there should be enough mass of the gas in there not entirely sure

cool
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..........................

Postby cool » May 5th, 2007, 10:32 am

Gyygggggggg
Last edited by cool on January 23rd, 2021, 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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krack korn
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Postby krack korn » May 5th, 2007, 9:03 pm

ok I see some of u misunderstood slightly, the reference to R12 is only as an example
for eg the old R12

to demonstrate that different gasses are more or less efficient and require different operating conditions to perform as intended. I specifically asked for gasses compatible with the existing oil, I know R12 is not.

I was asking about the topping up as a 'what if' kind of question. There is no current problem but I may have to open the system to perform some modifications so this is just foward planning since depending on the gas I put in now it may make upkeep simpler or less costly later on.

cool, can u tell me some more about 415 and 406 gasses, pros cons, how does a system with these gasses perform in comparison to 134a. u are saying that u just cannot top up with 415 and 406? Is this because when the gas leaks it may not leak in equal proportions to the original mix?

I have been observing an 'A/C technician' at work and he just mixing gas like a mad scientist, it didn't look right but he said 'it go work', one of the statements I fear most from the trini crackshot, anyway some more input from those in the know is required.

cool
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Postby cool » May 6th, 2007, 11:30 am

r415 and r406 are comprised of three gases ,namely r 22,r142 and r600--in different concentrations,and if there is a leak in a system so charged,one of the component gases mignt leak out ,and once they are not in the proper concentration,the cooling effect is lost.no topping up shouid be done with any blended gas because there would not be a proper mix.these gases are also to be liquid charged,(in liquid form they are mixed properly),and charged slowly(or one can damage the compressor)---i personally would use r134 ,because it is only one gas and it can be topped up if one has a leak and finds it before all leaks out.i find that the r134 cools just as well as r12.it is also recommended when using r134 that a high pressure switch be installed on the high pressure side ot the system.the reason why r134 should not be uses with mineral oil is becauseit does not mix well with same,and oil can be flushed out of the compressor (with turbulence when system works)and might be deposited in loops in the evaporator and other parts of the system,and the refrigerant mixing with the oil(only a small percentage),helps return oil to the compressor to keep it lubricated,hope this helps.

cool
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Postby cool » May 6th, 2007, 11:40 am

p.s.although r415 and r406 are about $40-$50 /lb.and r 134 is about $90-$100/lb.it would be cheaper in the long run to use r134 because a system with same can be topped up.but if a system has no leaks it should work for a year or morewith no topping up.

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krack korn
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Postby krack korn » May 6th, 2007, 11:05 pm

Thanks cool that is exactly what I wanted to know, it looks like I'll be replacing with 134a.

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*Phoenix*
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Postby *Phoenix* » May 7th, 2007, 1:31 am

Good info here fellas. :twisted:

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olewhip
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Postby olewhip » May 7th, 2007, 2:45 am

cool,
isn't the 415 gas flammable???

cool
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Postby cool » May 7th, 2007, 11:36 am

the" experts" say it is flammable,-but one would have to have a large percentage of the r6o0--(isobutane)(the flammable component of the three gasses in r415) for any real danger,i have fixed many fridges using r 415 to recharge(instead of r12--i don't have to change the mineral oil),and i weld lines in it's presence(r415)and i see no explosions.------ (by the way) gasolene used in cars is very flammable also.
a spark would more easily ignite gas than r415 refrirerant.i have also used r415 in my car but i am going with r134 (cheaper in the long run).

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olewhip
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Postby olewhip » May 8th, 2007, 2:08 am

ah used the 415 once and i find it to cool faster than r12

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