Question for guys with upgraded brakes

[5forward]

For the guys that UPGRADED their brake system to 4 and 6 piston setups etc,do yall use ABS?

[BlitzMekenzie]

for me no, left side axel a lil too short so the ABS line couldnt go on ...but non the less it made no difference in stopping ( almost 2 years now no ABS) ..but u might get one long debate on ABS vs Non ABS, best advice; learn your brakes and u good. Enjoy

[wagonrunner]

if it's compatable, why not?
the answer is yes though as long as there are no issues like above.

5forward, What's your reasoning though?

[Sanctifier]

For the guys that UPGRADED their brake system to 4 and 6 piston setups etc, do yall use ABS?

It depends on the model you are upgrading. ABS is only as good as the "firmware" installed in the ECU for that model...

Link--> ABS vs No ABS.

Hmmmm.What if a fast car were not to have it? Say a modded car with no ABS..ideas/thoughts?

Depends on the particular OEM ABS sytem and model car. Each system is different. For example, different Mitsubishi models that I drive regularly... and all with 4-wheel disc brakes for fair comparison.

Galant VRG - ABS Only consistent in the rain for less experienced drivers. TOTAL BULLSH!T Caused (an) accident because of increased braking distance.
UPDATE 2011: - Bad wheel sensor, so ABS not working at the moment... and brake "feel" is better... with slightly SHORTER stopping distances too!... Go figure!

RWD 1800 GSR Lancer - No ABS - No real problems - well balanced - only needs a little more finesse in rain. (see 4WD 1800 GSR* - Needs bigger front discs.)

4WD 1800 GSR Lancer - ABS - No real problems - well balanced - especially in the rain.
The main issue here (like RWD 1800 GSR *) is not enough front brakes to reduce fade when used in anger. Needs bigger front discs.

4WD Evo 6 RS2 - No ABS - No real problems except excessive dusting - beautifully balanced.
Lock-up at will in the dry - No fish-tailing - No bad behaviour... No drama...
It just STOPS NOW... with change to spare from $0.10¢ too
- like RWD & 4WD GSR only MILES better - just needs a little more finesse in rain IMHO.

Simply the best f***ing brakes I have ever used... period

BTW the new Evo 9 has new ABS system, and it's supposed to be excellent.
As I said it depends on the car... (and the "firmware" used.)

My $0.02¢

[5forward]

I mean like if you wana upgrade to big stuff on a laurel(C33).If im correct,that car doesnt have ABS.So would you install an "aftermarket" ABS system or not? Because i assume that big brakes can lock the wheels very easily...

[wagonrunner]

Never did that.
Maintain brakes, keep good tires, learn the car, and try to minimize your potential for lockups by driving accordingly.

[Sanctifier]

I mean like if you wana upgrade to big stuff on a laurel(C33).If im correct,that car doesnt have ABS.So would you install an "aftermarket" ABS system or not? Because i assume that big brakes can lock the wheels very easily...

So would you install an "aftermarket" ABS system or not?... For my Project Evo 6 Clone?... NOT!...

A good ABS system depends on the model upgraded... your car's setup... and the ABS "firmware" used.

You have no way of knowing if the firmware (installed software) used in the aftermarket ABS kit is compatable with your Laurel's (C33) weight... or front to rear weight distribution... or new caliper & rotor size... or Master cylinder piston size... or new rim & tyre size... (You get the idea.)

i assume that big brakes can lock the wheels very easily... Usually front brakes are upgraded with no attention paid to the rear.
Then the rear may "lock up" first... because the Master cylinder is not sized correctly (front to rear) any more.

Each model is different and should be analysed differently.

As i said, my Evo 6 RS2 uses HUGE Brembos & rotors with NO ABS... but it's just perfect! I NEVER want ABS.
My "Project Evo 6 Clone" started life as a 4wd Lancer 1800 GSR with ABS... I will definately remove it and copy the setup of the "real" Evo 6... because that's what works best for that particular model.

My $0.02¢

[5forward]

ok i understand.thanks guys

[5forward]

Didnt wana make a new thread to ask so ill ask here. Scenario: Im in my Y11 wingroad (big light) going about 140 K/hr,i mash the brake pedal very firmly and constant as im slowing down to like 10 K/hr (not enough for abs to kick in or anything) ,the braking force starts off normal and then fades.so say from 100 K/hr go down,brake fade all the way (the car is slowing down though)...So whats causing this? From what i know,its either the disc pads/brake shoes or brake fluid...

[belalegosi]

brake fade.
It could be a combination of both pads and fluid. Or just solely either.
Both are affected by heat. Alot of people neglect the change interval of brake fluid. Brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air and breaks down its efficiency. If your brake fluid is black/darkened in color, its time for a change.

It could also depend on the pad. Improper pads can cause braking isssues ie economy pads usually have best grip under normal conditions and begin to get slippery when heated from spirited driving.
Race pads are usually useless when cold and would need to be heated up from spirited driving for best grip.

Also old worn out rubber brake lines tend to expand when brake is applied causing less hydraulic pressure being applied to the calipers.

[5forward]

Clearly understood.thanks a lot...Ill see what i can do,starting with the brake fluid,n then pads

[NR8]

Good advice there jnqaz.
Especially this:

Also old worn out rubber brake lines tend to expand when brake is applied causing less hydraulic pressure being applied to the calipers.

Learned something new there.

[5forward]

Ok so what brake fluid should i opt to put? I've heard Dot4 is better...

[Lutch]

after installing rear discs in my b15 i got some additional stopping power.

accidentally while changing the front spindle(I THINK DAZ WAT DEY CALL IT neva mind d part ) one of the abs sensors cracked leading 2 d destruction of my abs system....due to lack of cash @ the time i didnt replace the part

only to my surprise i had a verrrrrry substantial increase in braking power.....without the abs....sooo i neva tawt twice again bout repairing the abs ....its over 2yrs running....only problem is i neeed some help 2 get d abs light on de dash 2 come off..was hoping it would hav blown by nw but no such luck

[wagonrunner]

sorry. well not really.
but you installed rear disc as your only change, and got decreased stopping distance?
alrighty then.

[Lutch]

wasn't my only change, front rotors were changed to crossed drill prior to putting disc in d rear

[DSM_05]

in a "one-off" stopping scenarios, cross drilled rotors won't help with stopping distance. Drilled rotors help with heat dissipation and cycling over repeated heavy stops.

For a "single hard stop" scenario, braking is almost entirely dependant on tyre traction/grip and brake pad effectiveness (alone).


And I think people are missing the point of ABS (except Sanctifier) in this thread. ABS doesn't boost braking power in the sense of how much braking force can be supplied by the car's system....it boosts effectiveness when you encounter lockup i.e. loss of traction of the tyre. When you lose traction, braking force is STILL being applied to your brake pad/rotor etc.....but due to a loss of traction with the road, you still maintain forward momentum.

To limit the onset of ABS intervention, get a grippier tyre....

[Sanctifier]

^ ^ ^ Thanks for the kind words, DSM.

after installing rear discs in my b15 i got some additional stopping power.
accidentally while changing the front spindle...one of the abs sensors cracked....
only to my surprise i had a verrrrrry substantial increase in braking power.....without the abs....

Actually I also noticed a similar thing in my wife's Galant VR-G.

With the ABS, the stopping distance is noticeably longer than it is now when it isn't working.
I too have not bothered to repair it because of the improvement in stopping distance.

While my 4wd 1800 GSR (CM5A) had a pretty good ABS system; the Galant was always crap!
Again IMHO, it boils down to just how compatible the firmware is with the other components used for that particular car.

My $0.02¢

[belalegosi]

Ok so what brake fluid should i opt to put? I've heard Dot4 is better...

put what the manufacturer recommends for your car and not what your "padna" tell you worked for him.

Some people believe that DOT fluids interact with each other. I dont know how true it is. I've just always used what came factory.

Clearly understood.thanks a lot...Ill see what i can do,starting with the brake fluid,n then pads

When looking at pads dont just go buy the big name brand ones. It may not suit your application.
Just food for thought...
Look at the brake edge code to get an idea of the characteristic of the pad. They are usually listed with 2 letter designations. First letter is "cold braking" and the second is "hot braking".
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=brake+pad+edge+codes&oq=brake+pad+edge+codes&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_l=hp.3..0.1241l1241l0l1486l1l1l0l0l0l0l206l206l2-1l1l0.frgbld.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=6a38b958ac5aa915&biw=1680&bih=847

[5forward]

noted