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apexi VAFC II for SOHC 3 stage Vtec ( HELP HONDA GODS)
Posted: March 8th, 2006, 1:25 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
This is for the original HONDA gods
( silver mike please do not reply to this thread)
thinkin about gettin the VAFC 2 for the SOHC 3 stageVTEC but not sure if the both solenoids would activate at the same time.
can i wire it in a way so that the modification to the vtec engagement point would occur USEFULLY.
Ive been hearing that the both solenoids would engage simultaneously hence would b of no use so i could just get the SAFC instead.
Posted: March 8th, 2006, 4:40 pm
by kes_vtec
trace the 2nd vtec solenoid back to the ecu, and use that wire for the vtec in and out on the vafc...
i do not think it is the same wire, but on the odd chance that it is, on the vafc run the output wire to the solnoid and use the normal input wire...
Posted: March 8th, 2006, 5:48 pm
by Clerique
Two seperate wires for those two solenoids.
If you have CVT, you'll be wasting money IMO.
Posted: March 8th, 2006, 9:32 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
If you have CVT, you'll be wasting money IMO
thanks boss i know i got manual
but will it work properly with kes's wirin idea or will the first soenoid not openin be a problem.
Posted: March 8th, 2006, 9:34 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
good idea ill lok into it kes
Posted: March 9th, 2006, 12:08 am
by Clerique
When you find out which Solenoid is 2nd Stage Vtec solenoid, lemme know.
Also, if you dont mind sacrificing your 'lean burn' mode (idle to 3000 RPM), you can swap a cam from the EG's DI5B Vtec. It has a slightly more aggressive Vtec lobe and ur car will run 16 valves all the time instead of 12 valves before 3000 rpm.
With the VAFC II you should be able to add more fuel below 3000 rpm to compensate for the increased air flow.
I can get you one of these cams for about $100 bucks.
Posted: March 9th, 2006, 2:26 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
Kes i aint get time to check that out thoroughly yet but i might be gettin it for 1500 i could just take it for the safc functions what u think
Posted: March 9th, 2006, 2:31 pm
by kes_vtec
sound cool...
but try and find the wire...
Posted: March 9th, 2006, 2:37 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
The Cleriq wrote:if you dont mind sacrificing your 'lean burn' mode (idle to 3000 RPM), you can swap a cam from the EG's DI5B Vtec. It has a slightly more aggressive Vtec lobe and ur car will run 16 valves all the time instead of 12 valves before 3000 rpm.
With the VAFC II you should be able to add more fuel below 3000 rpm to compensate for the increased air flow.
I can get you one of these cams for about $100 bucks.
good point cleriq someone told me to do that also but labour cost and down time plus loss of econo mode nah boy that is too much. best i just put in the skun2 semi race cam and done.
i think kes idea might work if i get the thing ill let him try that way if he f_+*& it up he cud fix it
I HOPE
Posted: March 10th, 2006, 11:57 am
by X2
If ur running stock cams and just bolt ons, don't bother with an afc.
The solenoid output for the dual stage is independent, once u hook up one solenoid, the other does not follow suit since it's controlled from a different ground.
If you INSIST on using an afc, go with the VAFC2 for ur model. The safc won't give u the control u need.
Posted: March 10th, 2006, 1:08 pm
by kes_vtec
ok so wait...
hear wah...
kill the econo mode, use the VAFC and run the motor lean, untill about 3000 RPM, then run the car how ever you like...
get ah normal D15B cam put it in. and fix...
if all this is tuh keep the "econo" mode then get
normal sohc cam, VAFC, run 14.2 AFR and 13.4 for the rest of the rpm band....
better, get a D15B motor and KICK ASS...
*hint* fuel changes only moved me from 94hp tuh 104hp
Posted: March 11th, 2006, 6:07 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
10 hp ia alo from just fuel i actually gained 5 hp from backin off thev fuel pressure at the regulator
Posted: March 11th, 2006, 6:10 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
X2 wrote:
If you INSIST on using an afc, go with the VAFC2 for ur model. The safc won't give u the control u need.
i actualy gettu the vafs 2 but since kes say the wtec wouldnt be able to engage properly i wont use it.
hence it would be functionin as a safc u understand x2
Posted: March 11th, 2006, 8:55 pm
by kes_vtec
i did say that...
silvermike did...
Posted: March 11th, 2006, 9:22 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
good point kes sorry i stand corrected
(although i heard from the owner who i gettin the vafc 2 from that he talkin sh*& cuz it work on the v6 accord which also has two vtec solenoids and i vtec)
Posted: March 12th, 2006, 1:25 pm
by kes_vtec
the VAFCII was made to work with iVtec motors also...
Posted: March 12th, 2006, 6:34 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
yip i trhink i make up my mind after our discussion today
Posted: March 13th, 2006, 2:51 pm
by Silvermike
kes_vtec wrote:i did say that...
silvermike did...
i said something?
Posted: March 13th, 2006, 3:11 pm
by X2
ANA_sole wrote:i actualy gettu the vafs 2 but since kes say the wtec wouldnt be able to engage properly i wont use it.
hence it would be functionin as a safc u understand x2
huh ?
What won't engage properly with a vafc2 ?
Both the vafc 1 and 2 will work.
I recommended the vafc2 since there are more tuning windows, so you can still effectively use the lean burn mode ur car has.... but straight up, I don't think ur a candidate for a fuel controller just yet....
Posted: March 13th, 2006, 4:57 pm
by Silvermike
well what happened to me was that the vtec signal into the ecu was one wire. .. passin tht through the vafc caused both stages to activate at the same rpm.
i would have thought that there would be two separate inputs, but i couldn't find any wiring digram for it.
Posted: March 13th, 2006, 5:10 pm
by X2
Silvermike wrote:well what happened to me was that the vtec signal into the ecu was one wire. .. passin tht through the vafc caused both stages to activate at the same rpm.
i would have thought that there would be two separate inputs, but i couldn't find any wiring digram for it.
So what prevented you from splicing and teeing off the wire so that the ecu grounds one solenoid (primary) at the correct rpm and the afc grounds the secondary solenoid for the big cam ?
Posted: March 13th, 2006, 5:20 pm
by Silvermike
thats a lil to tech for me. im new to this
ull have to show me what u mean, i dont see how what ure saying will work
Posted: March 13th, 2006, 5:44 pm
by X2
EH?
if yuh install the afc..you should be able to understand that meng... re-read de post....
Posted: March 13th, 2006, 7:36 pm
by Silvermike
ok. there is a single wire leading into the cu for vtec. well im not sure about that. there may be 2, but certainly both solenoids were controlled by the vafc with that one wire. what i dont understand is how im getting the vafc to handle the secondary and the ecu to do the primary... this is what i wanted to achieve in the first place.
by splitting the single wire? i dont get it. i think the signals are merged. for instance 2V= primary, 4V = primary + secondary.. i dunno how it works exactly at this point. im trying to get material to read on it, without luck so far... but i still dont see how ure method would work.
Posted: March 14th, 2006, 7:51 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
yip silvermike i see what u mean
now actuaLLY DOIN IT I ENCOUNTERED THE SAME PROBLEM.
we hadda get the diagram for our engines ecu. but :
what if we run a y to the in put of the VAFC input to the solenoids and then run the vtec monitor wire from the ecu to the vafc2 .
therefore silvermike in theory the 2 solenoids openin at the same time woul allow the 16 valves to open hence actin like a single solenoid vtec. would this work.?
kes what u think.
Posted: March 14th, 2006, 8:00 pm
by Silvermike
if u run the wire strait to the vafc the two solenoids open as one. the problem is if u set vtec at 5000, the 1st stage that should have opened at 3200 s late... the car runs rich and timing would be off. i tried and the car pulled like crap until vtec opened @ 5000
i even tried like a "dee dee dee" and put vtec at 3200. the high cam opened but made no power. im conviced that honda would have 2 inputs for vtec into the ecu, its just that we have to find it... as to why that single wire controlled the 2 solenoids, i still dunno.
but on the other hand, there isnt much to be gained by changing the position of the 2nd stage vtec. form lookin at my dyno graph, there isnt a jump in torque when the vtec angaged... it was rather smooth... so i guess its fine just where it is. My car has BPUs.. if ure packin somthing more, maybe there would be some use in moving the vtec xover
Posted: March 14th, 2006, 8:13 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
NO thats not what i mean
let me try again
the y wire's single wire is connecting to the VTM wire of the vafc 2 so there u would have the vafc seein the two solenoids openin hence calibrating fuel and compensation for both solenoids.
then we do as X2 said. let the ecu open the first solenoid and thye vafc would just control the second like normal.
that way the second solenods openin can be changed and with the VTM on both the second will be compensated for fuel of both solenoids openin. ie.all 16 valves openin. what u think Si Mi
Posted: March 14th, 2006, 8:14 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
actually as i was tunin on the dyno it would make sense to open both solenoids a little later actually 500rpm later. makes a lot of difference. hp should increase.
Posted: March 14th, 2006, 8:16 pm
by civcdrvrinwrx
where is kes he should be givin his input
he always playin d ass wit people ecus
Posted: March 14th, 2006, 8:19 pm
by Silvermike
hmm, my vtec was fine where it was... pm ure dyno #'s nah!
mind you, i have a vafc 1, not 2.. so i think ure connections may be a lil different to mine