Postby High_Speed_Imports » June 27th, 2012, 12:25 am
Some good info i found and thought i should share with u guys ;D ;D
Camshaft and Valvetrain Information
Following cams measured with 1mm of lift:
Integra Type-R (Through 1999 Spec)
Int-240 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Mugen Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are great, reliable cams for the money. They will give good gains from midrange all the way until 8400rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics.
Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R (Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec)
Int-243 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Mugen Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are great, reliable cams for the money. They will give good gains from midrange all the way until 8400rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics.
Skunk2 Stage 1
Int-252 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-249 dur. / 10.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Skunk2 Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are very underrated cams. They do cost around £100- 200 more than the Type-R cams but they also offer much more duration and will give more power than the Type-R cams. Similar power range of Type-R cams but stronger throughout the higher parts of the power band. This is a great set of cams for a budget minded B16A owner. These cams have stock idle characteristics. I would recommend using Skunk2 cam gears with these cams.
JUN Type 1
Int-265 dur. / 10.9mm lift
Exh-268 dur. / 10.0mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Tough to say. I have never seen anyone use this cam. The characteristics say that a stock B16A valve spring could handle these cams for use up to 8200rpms. Any operation above that and I would use ITR valve springs or even JUN valve springs.
Description: Again, I have never seen these used. I have no clue on the power these cams will deliver but it should be similar to that of a Skunk2 Stage 1 cam, although they are very different cams. These cams have stock idle characteristics. I would recommend using JUN cam gears with these cams.
Spoon Sports
Int-256 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-245 dur. / 11.1mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Integra Type-R. If using these cams past 8800rpms(why would you) I would think that Port Flow or even Toda valve springs would work but I don’t think these cams will make much power after 8400rpm.
Description: Another somewhat rare cam. Will show definite gains over that a Type-R cam and very good gains on a stock B16A motor. Stock idle characteristics from the few users I have seen use them. I would recommend using Spoon cam gears with these cams.
JUN Type 2
Int-267 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-265 dur. / 10.9mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Integra Type-R up to 8800rpms or JUN valve springs for all operations. These cams are wild enough that you should not be using the low 8200rpms rev limit.
Description: Another rare cam but a few people have used it. These Cams will have just as much midrange gain as the big-brother JUN Type 3 but will start to slack off over 8400rpms when the Type 3’s are still making power. However, this cam will cause fewer headaches to get tuned right and does not require the fancy valvetrain and tuning of the Type 3. This is by far the most underrated cam of this whole bunch. These cams have stock idle characteristics but still offer better midrange power than the JUN Type 3 (start making power at an earlier rpm). I recommend using JUN cam gears with these cams.
Skunk2 Stage 2
Int-266 dur. / 12.3mm lift
Exh-262 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Skunk2 preferred but Port Flow will work as well. These cams are wild enough that you should not be using the low 8200rpms rev limit.
Description: These have a very similar power band as the JUN Type 3, with less cost and better reliability. Not huge midrange but very good gains from 7000rpms all the way to 9000rpms (peak is usually around 8200rpms). These cams have stock idle characteristics, thus making them the ultimate street/strip cam. I recommend using Skunk2 cam gears with these cams.
JUN Type 3
Int-265 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-265 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: JUN preferred but Port Flow works as well. These cams are wild enough that you should not be using the low 8200rpms rev limit.
Description: Until the Skunk2 Stage 3 this was the best high-end performing cam on the market. The JUN 3 and Toda B were the two fighting out for the top dog when it was just JUN and Toda. Again, like the Skunk2 Stage 2, not huge midrange but very good gains from 7000rpms all the way to 9000rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics, thus making them another ultimate street/strip cam. I recommend using JUN cam gears with these cams.
Skunk2 Stage 3
Int-270 dur. / 12.8mm lift
Exh-279 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Skunk2.
Description: A race only cam. Not to be used on the common street motor, if they are you should pull the head every so often to make sure everything is OK. This cam makes huge top-end power gains but still retains near-stock idle characteristics. This cam is or has been used by Skunk2’s drag racing team and Speed World Challenge team as well. I recommend using Skunk2 cam gears with these cams.
Following cam measured with 0mm of lift:
Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R (Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec)
Int-278 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Exh-280 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Mugen Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: These are great, reliable cams for the money. You can pick up a set for as little as £450 new if you are lucky! They will give good gains from midrange all the way until 8400rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics.
Crower 401(NA Version)
Int- 282 dur. / 11.3mm lift
Exh-277 dur. / 10.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Stock B16A if using stock 8200 re-limit. Integra Type-R if using rev limit over 8200rpms. Crower Valve Springs can also be used.
Description: This cam is almost identical to the Type-R cams. A little more duration overall but that is traded off with a little less lift on the intake cam. They will have similar gains and power band as the Type-R cams. If it were up to me I would just choose the Type-R cam based on reliability alone. These cams will have stock idle characteristics. I would recommend using Crower cam gears with these cams.
Crower 401-T (Forced Induction Version)
Int-280 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Exh-276 dur. / 11.3mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Crower.
Description: One of the only true boost cams for B-Series Hondas on the market. This cam is designed to prevent blow-through and to save boost. This is typically associated with lower duration and high lift but cam lobe separation is also a factor with these cams. These can be used in a NA car but they will see better gains from a cam set with more duration. Stock idle characteristics are attained from my sources. I would recommend using Crower cam gears with these cams.
Toda Spec A
Int-290 dur. / 11.6mm lift
Exh-280 dur. / 11.2mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Integra Type-R up to 8800rpms or Toda valve springs for all operations.
Description: One of my favourite set of cams. Toda does not actually mix and match their
cams but they are similarly tied when it comes to power. The Toda A will offer the midrange gain of a Type-R cam but the high-end gain (put not overall peak power) of the Toda B cam. These cams will have gains from midrange to 8800rpms with peak gains concentrated on 7000-7800rpms. These cams are great for a street motor and are really nice for cars equipped with a stock B18C5 motor (no valvetrain or ECU requirements needed). These are the only Toda cams to retain stock idle characteristics. I recommend using Toda cam gears with these cams.
Crower 402(Both Regular 402 and 402-A, 402-A is milder off VTEC)
Int-297 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Exh-287 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Crower.
Description: There are two 402 versions offered. The 402 is the regular version and offers better midrange power than the 402-A. Both are similar on the high end of the cam and will create similar peak power numbers. They will make peak power around 7900-8200rpms and have nice gains all the way up to 9000rpms. Stock idle is attained with the 402-A but the regular 402 will have a slightly “bumpier†idle than stock. I recommend using Crower cam gears with both sets of the 402 cam.
Toda Spec B
Int-295 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-285 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Toda but Port Flow will work well too.
Description: My personal pick for overall street/autocross use. These cams have the most midrange gains out of any B-Series cam when they are tuned right. They have the same midrange gains of a Toda Spec C and the same top end pull as the Toda Spec A, but a little more peak power. They are in tight competition with the Skunk2 Stage 2 and JUN Type 3. Those care are more concentrated on top-end, peak power gains. The Toda B is more concentrated on midrange power with the trade off of a little top-end power. Toda B’s have great gains from 4500rpms all the way to 8800rpms. Power does start to dip off quickly at around 8400rpms though. Due to the wild off-VTEC profiles, these cams do have a “bumpier†idle than stock. I recommend using Toda cam gears with these cams along with a Toda or Power Enterprises timing belt.
Crower 403
Int-295 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-293 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Crower.
Description: Crowers wildest ca m. The 403 has good midrange of the 402 cam but with a little more top-end power. They will make more power above 8200rpms than the 402 cams. Like the 402, the idle will be “bumpier†due to the aggressive non-VTEC profile. I recommend using Crower cam gears with these cams.
Toda Spec C
Int-295 dur. / 12.5mm lift
Exh-295 dur. / 12.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Toda
Description: The ultimate cam. This cam mixes the midrange power of the Toda B cam with the top end of similar to that of the JUN Type 3 and Skunk2 Stage 2. Power gains from 4500rpms all the way to 9000rpms. This is truly, the best overall cam for both midrange and top-end power. They might not give the top-end gains of the Skunk2 Stage 3 but you get more midrange and these cams can be used on the street with the right set-up and the deep pocketbook. Due to the crazy off-VTEC lobes the idle is rougher than stock, just like the Toda B cam. I recommend using Toda cam gears with these cams along with a Toda or Power Enterprises timing belt.
Toda Spec D
Int-305 dur. / 12.9mm lift
Exh-315 dur. / 11.9mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Toda
Description: If you are crazy enough to be using this cam or anything wilder, then I would hope you do not need a description and know a hell of a lot more than me!
So, that is the basics of cams. Now people will ask what they need to properly run these cams. Well that is all dependant on what rpm you plan on running to. Most of it comes down to intake and exhaust. Cars running at high revs will want a large collector header like the 2.5 inch offered on the JDM DC Sports, JDM Integra-R and other JDM collector headers. These motors will also like an intake manifold with shorter runners. Something like the Integra Type-R or Skunk2 intake manifold will work well. The intake manifold also requires to have a bored out throttle body. The header will also need to have either a 2.5-inch collector catalyst or test pipe.
Another big thing needed is removing the stock rev limiter. For 1996+ OBD2 cars you can do this by getting an OBD1 conversion. This involves getting an OBD1 ECU, the OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness, and an OBD1 ECU Program (to raise rev limiter). If you have a pre 1996 car that is OBD1 then all you need is the ECU program. Running a Integra or Civic Type-R ECU is another possibility.
Other head work is always needed as well. High-revving motors need the proper valve springs and titanium retainers. Port and Polish jobs are always nice to have regardless of the set-up, but is especially needed for the wilder cams like the Toda Spec C, Skunk2 Stage 3, etc. Upgrading valves and the lost motion assembly should be considered with wild cams like those above.
The medium and wild grind cams are also not going to like the low compression levels of the B16A and B18C1 motors. You can gain 0.4 of a point by simply adding a head gasket but after that your only alternative is head milling or using new pistons. Any where from 11.0-12.0:1 is good for most of the cams above. If it is not in your budget to add pistons though, don’t worry; the 10.6:1 from the stock B16A with a head gasket will be just fine for mild and medium set-ups. Anything in the wild cam category should be using higher compression.
ITR Valvetrain Questions
ITR = Integra Type R
The valvetrain consists of the following
8 Outer Intake Valvesprings
8 Inner Intake Valvesprings
8 Outer Exhaust Valvesprings
8 Inner Exhaust Valvesprings
8 Intake Valves
8 Exhaust Valves
16 Retainers
The valvesprings come with a splash of blue or yellow paint on them from the Honda factory. This is to distinguish the intake springs from the exhaust springs.
Intake Springs = Yellow
Exhaust Springs = Blue
ITR valvetrain will fit into any B series DOHC VTEC head.
When upgrading to a larger cam with more lift and duration than stock B16A cams, upgrading valvesprings is also recommended in order to handle to additional force the cams inflict.
ITR Valvetrain is safe to use with any of the following cams. Consider that the cams will be tuned and will be kept within the ITR valvetrain threshold and the cams peak power parameters.
Meaning, you do not rev a TODA Spec A to 9500 RPM. Not only will you bind the ITR springs, but you will make no power as the cams lobes are not large enough to maintain any type of power producing capabilities. You will go faster and put more power to the ground, if you shift at or slightly above peak power.
What Are Suitable Camshafts For ITR Valvetrain?
OEM Honda Camshafts
JDM Integra Type R (95.5 - 97)
JDM Integra Type R (98 - 01)
Civic Type R (96 - 97)
Civic Type R (98-00)
It is also perfectly fine to use any other DOHC VTEC B series cams with ITR valve train, but you will get back to the point of using springs too stiff for your application, and not going to be making power past redline anyways. The best thing to do is use the stock valve train for the stock cams.
Aftermarket Camshafts
TODA Spec A
JUN Type II (2)
Spoon Sports
Skunk2 Stage 1
* possibly others that are un named, check out the specs in the cam guide and if similar to the specs of these aftermarket cams
Can I Use My Mugen or Spoon Valvetrain With The Camshafts Listed Above?
Most definitely. Mugen & Spoon are sister tuning companies of Honda, meaning that a lot of their products are produced by or with Honda.
Speculations regarding Mugen's valve springs and their differences from the stock ITR valve springs have been claimed. Nothing has yet to be proven enough to convince this individual. They are equally as good as ITR valve springs if not slightly better. It is rumoured that they may be lighter weight, or slightly different in their exterior coating. Again, no speculations have been "proven" thus far.
I Am On A Budget And Cannot Afford ITR Springs, Is There Anything I Can Do To Run The Cams Listed Above?
Personally I do not think the installation of aftermarket cams should be done on stock B16A valvetrain. To experience the full benefits of the camshafts you will need to tune them and rev them beyond the 8200 limiter.
In my personal opinion an NA build should be done properly, and if t hat means spending an extra £200 on valvesprings now, oppose to £700 + to port & polish and repair my damaged cylinder head later, than I will do so. It’s your engine though and you can do what you please.
Here is what you can do if you already have a B16A. It has been tried and tested, and yes it does work with very few failures reported over the years.
The ITR Exhaust (blue) valvesprings are the equivalent to the B16A INTAKE springs. This is all according to Honda part numbers.
So what does this all mean, if I have a B16A and am putting in cams?
You will transfer your B16A Intake springs (both inner and outer, 16 total) to the exhaust side of the head. Now you must purchase the ITR Intake springs (both inner and outer, 16 in total) and place them on the intake side of the head. You will keep your stock B16A retainers and they will fit just fine.
Do I Need To Buy Valvesprings At All?
But you will have to maintain a stock redline, and be conservative on tuning. The midrange that the cams offer should be okay for stock valvesprings, but the top end will simply crush stock springs.
Again I recommend at least going with the ITR intake, B16A Intake setup as a bare minimum.
What Retainers Should I Use, Or Are Stock Ones Fine?
The choice of retainers is fairly easy. If you plan to stay under 9000 RPM, than stock ITR retainers will be fine. If you wish to rev higher it is recommended to go with a Titanium retainer from an aftermarket company (JUN, Skunk2 etc)
Titanium retainers are lighter and stiffer than stock retainers. They like to be revved high and are widely used in larger cam applications. They do have a wear and tear factor that is not as durable as the OEM retainers.
Nitrade Coatings have been experimented with to help t he retainer from scarring or "pitting". If you request more information than this brief summary on retainers, than please post so. I do not personally know a lot about them.
So I Got My Cams, Valvesprings, Retainers, And They Are Installed. Now What?
With any engine modification you must tune the engine and its management system (ECU) to respond to the changes.
In order to get the best performance out of these aftermarket cams you will need the following.
Adjustable Cam Gears (usually better to get the same manufacturer as your cams)
ECU Upgrade (re-chipped OBD1 ECU with appropriate program, Jumper Harness + OBD1 Chipped ECU for OBD2 Users, CTR ECU for OBD2 Users, or a more advanced tuning system like a Hondata or get your ECU chipped by G-Motorsports and we advice you of the best option to suit your modifications.
Fuel Pressure Regulator
VTEC Controller (VAFC)
DYNO TIME or road testing where you can play with fuel pressure yourself and play with the VAFC. Start conservative and progress from there. You will be able to notice a difference when you change things.
What About Additional Modifications I Need To Feel The Benefits Of These Cams? Valves?
Induction System - You will need to bring in more air than your stock filter and airbox will give you. Many people choose a simple intake.
Exhaust Manifold - If you do not have a manifold that will flow exhaust fumes from the head quicker than stock, then you better get one now. Most people opt for a 2.5" collector. This is also known as a JDM manifold design. 4-2-1 will pull you more midrange. If you have money to spend, look towards a Spoon, Toda, Mugen etc. If you are on a budget go for an OEM JDM ITR, or a JDM DC 4-1. These are on average £350 cheaper than the Spoon etc. But will make less power, and not look as good.
Exhaust - 2.5" is best for an NA build. If you are using ITR cams or better than 2.5" will be perfect. Look for a mandrel bent exhaust in stainless steel. It will outlast aluminised and isn't too much more to afford. Many muffler shops can make you piping or you can buy from any manufacturer you like the design off.
Hi-Flow Cat - Match it to your manifold and exhaust. Are offered in 2.5".
The above information is all you "really" need to feel the cams and enjoy them. Obviously the next step will be to build the block for more compression and port the head for more flow.
What Type Of Power Can I Expect From The Cams Listed Above?
This is a very broad question. All the cams above are designed a little bit differently. For example. The Toda A will make very nice midrange but will not produce the same top end as the Skunk2 Stage 1. They are profiled differently. This is where you need to look at a dyno chart/graph and see where the cams peak, where they start to pull more power than stock, and this way you can help decide on which cams you want to go with.
A lot of people like midrange for daily driving, because the car feels strong up to the VTEC crossover where VTEC will pull the top end. Others like a top end screamer. A Skunk2 Stage 1 cam will have similar profiles to an ITR cam with about equal midrange; the top end however will pull harder and longer than an ITR cam.
Again reading dyno charts and further researching independently will help you drastically in your decision.
Final thoughts
Before even thinking of cams or an NA build altogether; there are a few things you must remember.
1) The power will not come overnight. An NA build is a careful process; it is not a bolt on NOS kit that will give you 50 bhp right away.
2) Mild cams that use ITR valvetrain may not be "enough" for the person in quest of 12 to 13 sec quarter mile.
3) If you do not tune them properly, you will not make any power, and your car will run like crap. We cannot stress tuning enough.
4) With any modification such as cams, you need to make sure proper maintenance is done and that a routine checkups for things such as cam gear bolts being tight, timing belt wear, valve adjustments, and the most important frequent oil change.
If you do choose to install cams however you will feel the exhilaration of a smooth midrange all the way up to VTEC crossover, then will literally "snap" the silence and allow your B series engine to sing her favourite song all the way up until 8800 RPM (considering you have already tuned to this RPM and know you make power here. Cams rank very high on my list of worthy modifications. After riding on JUN 3's I know what cams are capable of, and just how much a few lobes can make a difference.
JUN Camshafts info
Jun Type III cams
Profile #1
Profile #2
Profile #3
Intake camshaft
63(252)-9.0
76(304)-12.0
60(240)-6.5
Exhaust camshaft
60(240)-6.2
76(304)-11.5
63(252)-7.8
If you are going for the ultimate set of aftermarket cams for your Honda, this is it! The Jun Type III cams are designed for streets/race setups. Unlike other aftermarket cams, Jun Type III cams use a different profile for both the low-cam profile and the high-cam profile, as compared to the stock Honda cams..
The Jun Type III cams are designed with a wilder profile compared to the stock Honda cams. The advantage of that is an improved mid-range performance (while the low-cam profile is engaged). This is an area which is lacking with the use of the stock cams. You will notice that the dip in the mid-range performance is significantly reduced. The downside to the wilder profile is a slight tradeoff in idle quality. If the cams are properly tuned, a decent engine idle can still be achieved. For this you will need an adjustable camshaft pulley.
Characteristics of JUN camshafts and advice
Once the engine revs past 6,000 rpm (optimum cut-in point for the high cam profile), the engine pulls much harder. The change in the engine note (as well as the exhaust note) is unmistakable. Unless you have raised your rev limiter, you will soon be hitting the rev-limit in an instant. With the profile chosen for the high-cam, the engine is breathing well way past the stock redline. Herein lies the 'downsides'. To take advantage of the power which extends past the stock redline, you will need to raise the stock rev limit. To do that, you will need to either remap the ECU or install a device which can remove/raise the rev limit. As the high-cam profile has a max valve lift of 12.0mm and a duration of 304 degrees, there will be added stress to the valve train components. To ensure reliable operation and to avoid costly engine rebuilds, you will need to upgrade to JUN's valve springs and titanium retainers.
Having ensured the reliability of your valve train components, your next concern will be fuelling. Fuel controllers such as the Apexi VAFC are great for fine-tuning, but to provide sufficient fuelling with this set of cams, especially if you have other intake and exhaust upgrades done. You will need to invest in a reprogrammed ECU (programmed for operation with JUN cams). You will be taking a risk if you think that any other aftermarket ECUs can do the job. Alternatively, you can invest in the Apexi Power FC or other programmable engine management systems like G Reddy E-manage.
If you have been reading up to this point, you will notice that there are a number of 'hidden' costs associated with the proper use of this set of cams. Purchasing the set of cams is just the first step. Apart from the above mentioned component upgrades, you will probably need to spend some time on the dyno to optimise the cams settings. There are some methods to save you from emptying your wallet. If you are willing to sacrifice the additional performance beyond the stock redline, you can still retain your stock ECU (saving you money). To handle the additional fuelling required, get the following:
Apexi S-AFC/V-AFC
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator
Honda Prelude 2.2 VTEC injectors
If your engine is relatively new (low mileage) and you make sure that you keep to the stock rev limit, upgrade to Type R's dual exhaust valve springs and lighter Type R valves. These stock factory components should not cost you much.
Hope this helps some of you
