Future of Caribbean Airlines

[Dohplaydat]

Governments haven't bailed out any airline just yet, reason being, bail out now and in a year they still fail.

Airlines are now being forced to lean up, cut routes and lay off.

In case you were unaware of what happened nearly a month ago:

US government agrees on $25bn bailout for airlines as pandemic halts travel

Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-industry

Dude US airlines operate differently, you think trump letting any big business fail on his watch

[adnj]

Governments haven't bailed out any airline just yet, reason being, bail out now and in a year they still fail.

Airlines are now being forced to lean up, cut routes and lay off.

In case you were unaware of what happened nearly a month ago:

US government agrees on $25bn bailout for airlines as pandemic halts travel

Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-industry

Dude US airlines operate differently, you think trump letting any big business fail on his watch

"Dude": Europe is prepping a €26B bailout package. I suppose that you missed that also.

[Dizzy28]

Governments haven't bailed out any airline just yet, reason being, bail out now and in a year they still fail.

Airlines are now being forced to lean up, cut routes and lay off.

In case you were unaware of what happened nearly a month ago:

US government agrees on $25bn bailout for airlines as pandemic halts travel

Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-industry

Dude US airlines operate differently, you think trump letting any big business fail on his watch

"Dude": Europe is prepping a €26B bailout package. I suppose that you missed that also.

How dare any of you question Daran!!!

[adnj]

Governments haven't bailed out any airline just yet, reason being, bail out now and in a year they still fail.

Airlines are now being forced to lean up, cut routes and lay off.

In case you were unaware of what happened nearly a month ago:

US government agrees on $25bn bailout for airlines as pandemic halts travel

Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-industry

Dude US airlines operate differently, you think trump letting any big business fail on his watch

"Dude": Europe is prepping a €26B bailout package. I suppose that you missed that also.

Just a little more detailed info because "US airlines operate differently."

----------------

Air France, which has obtained €7bn in loans and loan guarantees from the French government, and Lufthansa, currently negotiating a €9bn rescue package with Berlin, top the charts in the airline bailout tracker compiled by Carbon Market Watch, Greenpeace, and Transport & Environment.

European governments have formally agreed €11.5bn in financial aid for airlines , including a £600m loan from the UK Treasury and Bank of England for EasyJet. A further €14.6bn is under discussion, including £500m Richard Branson is seeking from the British government to aid Virgin Atlantic.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nvironment

[Dohplaydat]

Governments haven't bailed out any airline just yet, reason being, bail out now and in a year they still fail.

Airlines are now being forced to lean up, cut routes and lay off.

In case you were unaware of what happened nearly a month ago:

US government agrees on $25bn bailout for airlines as pandemic halts travel

Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-industry

Dude US airlines operate differently, you think trump letting any big business fail on his watch

"Dude": Europe is prepping a €26B bailout package. I suppose that you missed that also.

Just a little more detailed info because "US airlines operate differently."

----------------

Air France, which has obtained €7bn in loans and loan guarantees from the French government, and Lufthansa, currently negotiating a €9bn rescue package with Berlin, top the charts in the airline bailout tracker compiled by Carbon Market Watch, Greenpeace, and Transport & Environment.

European governments have formally agreed €11.5bn in financial aid for airlines , including a £600m loan from the UK Treasury and Bank of England for EasyJet. A further €14.6bn is under discussion, including £500m Richard Branson is seeking from the British government to aid Virgin Atlantic.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nvironment

Spoke too soon when I said they haven't gotten their bailouts approved yet, I have seen that some are.

However, many airlines are on the verge of bankruptcy and many have to agree to layoffs and structural changes in order to even get bailout money.

There are lots of backlash and opposition to bailouts going on in many countries picking and choosing a few that received isn't being honest nor consistent to what's happening world wide.

Fact is, these many bailouts might not be enough to keep affloat with current low demand.

[pugboy]

that must be a consideration
why put billions to prop up a business which is nonexistent or gonna be severely reduced for uncertain time.

[Redman]

What would it look like if we let CAL fail.?

[neilsingh100]

I forgot to mention that most of the money CAL will require is in US dollars meaning we would be depleting our foreign reserves to keep it as a going concern. I believe CAL also has a lot of foreign debt on its balance sheet. I hope government has the conviction to deal with CAL the same way it dealt with Petrotrin.

[Dohplaydat]

I forgot to mention that most of the money CAL will require is in US dollars meaning we would be depleting our foreign reserves to keep it as a going concern. I believe CAL also has a lot of foreign debt on its balance sheet. I hope government has the conviction to deal with CAL the same way it dealt with Petrotrin.

Hmm didn't consider this, it might be true, but is it really? I suspect most of CAL's costs are opex which isn't paid in US unless they're paying foreign staff salaries. I could be wrong.

What would it look like if we let CAL fail.?

With the drop in demand, it might be ecomical for only one or two airlines offer offer international flights. Let's say it's AA and Jet Blu.

But given the drastic fall in demand and that economy of scale may not longer apply, they will have to reduce flights and increase prices.

I hope this administration bails out CAL, acquires Liat, and maybe even seeks to expand routes. A little investment now can pay off big giving us more regional power and influence.

[neilsingh100]

I forgot to mention that most of the money CAL will require is in US dollars meaning we would be depleting our foreign reserves to keep it as a going concern. I believe CAL also has a lot of foreign debt on its balance sheet. I hope government has the conviction to deal with CAL the same way it dealt with Petrotrin.

Hmm didn't consider this, it might be true, but is it really? I suspect most of CAL's costs are opex which isn't paid in US unless they're paying foreign staff salaries. I could be wrong.

Leases for airplanes, fuel, terminal/gate fees are paid in US dollars

[MaxPower]

For a start,

Get rid of the over 60s.

[Redman]

I forgot to mention that most of the money CAL will require is in US dollars meaning we would be depleting our foreign reserves to keep it as a going concern. I believe CAL also has a lot of foreign debt on its balance sheet. I hope government has the conviction to deal with CAL the same way it dealt with Petrotrin.

Hmm didn't consider this, it might be true, but is it really? I suspect most of CAL's costs are opex which isn't paid in US unless they're paying foreign staff salaries. I could be wrong.

Leases for airplanes, fuel, terminal/gate fees are paid in US dollars

Of course some expenses are hard currency.

So is some of the revenue.

A foreign carrier would pressure our forex situation as well.....they eh taking TT.

[Dohplaydat]

I forgot to mention that most of the money CAL will require is in US dollars meaning we would be depleting our foreign reserves to keep it as a going concern. I believe CAL also has a lot of foreign debt on its balance sheet. I hope government has the conviction to deal with CAL the same way it dealt with Petrotrin.

Hmm didn't consider this, it might be true, but is it really? I suspect most of CAL's costs are opex which isn't paid in US unless they're paying foreign staff salaries. I could be wrong.

Leases for airplanes, fuel, terminal/gate fees are paid in US dollars

Of course some expenses are hard currency.

So is some of the revenue.

A foreign carrier would pressure our forex situation as well.....they eh taking TT.

Great point, I rather pay a local airline for a ticket than a foreign company.

[paid_influencer]

Great point, I rather pay a local airline for a ticket than a foreign company.

the bail out will cost much more than a ticket.

running an airline is an expensive as hell thing. Maybe Trinidad needs to know the limits of its pocket and do as we did with Petrotrin. Getting past that mental hurdle to close Petrotrin was one of the major achievements of the current administration.

I hope Caribbean Airlines is not at that point, but we are in a brave new world where economic depression (not recession) is the reality. Major changes will have to be made.

also, stay far away from 'helping' LIAT. The small islanders funding that venture always biting up about "high" ticket prices. There is no room for Trinidadians to make a profit and even if we do - them goh say we robbing them, God goh smite we, etc.

[speedmelter]

There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.

[Redman]

Great point, I rather pay a local airline for a ticket than a foreign company.

the bail out will cost much more than a ticket.

running an airline is an expensive as hell thing. Maybe Trinidad needs to know the limits of its pocket and do as we did with Petrotrin. Getting past that mental hurdle to close Petrotrin was one of the major achievements of the current administration.

I hope Caribbean Airlines is not at that point, but we are in a brave new world where economic depression (not recession) is the reality. Major changes will have to be made.

also, stay far away from 'helping' LIAT. The small islanders funding that venture always biting up about "high" ticket prices. There is no room for Trinidadians to make a profit and even if we do - them goh say we robbing them, God goh smite we, etc.

Stay away from any partnership ...if they treat it like they treat UWI....they will not keep their word.

[MaxPower]

There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.

Pretty much sums it all.

[ek4ever]

Maybe they could get the OWTU to run it

[speedmelter]

It is quite likely that CAL may acquire LIAT at this point. It could be a good opportunity but they will inherit some debts. There is a CAL chairman I think on the committee for the roadmap forward nonsense so it may be something they government may jump at.

[speedmelter]

Maybe they could get the OWTU to run it

BWIA was the original petrotrin you don’t know that? They made petrotrin look above board lol

[MaxPower]

It is quite likely that CAL may acquire LIAT at this point. It could be a good opportunity but they will inherit some debts. There is a CAL chairman I think on the committee for the roadmap forward nonsense so it may be something they government may jump at.

Yeh, 2 of them actually.

Shameer and Vishnu.

[daxt0r]

CAL just there to give high paying redundant jobs to ministers chirren and outside love interests, i say stop subsidizing them and let the market dictate what happens.

[pugboy]

allyuh suggesting cal acquire liat ?

[neilsingh100]

It is quite likely that CAL may acquire LIAT at this point. It could be a good opportunity but they will inherit some debts. There is a CAL chairman I think on the committee for the roadmap forward nonsense so it may be something they government may jump at.

CAL acquiring LIAT makes no sense the same way they should have not acquired Air Jamaica. I don't think the public understands the amount of money CAL lost over the last decade and what it will cost tax payers going forward. Conservative estimates are in the billions and requires US dollars. I predict if we keep CAL going and we end up at the door steps of the IMF as most economists are predicting will happen by 2022 government will be forced to divest loss making entities similar to what Jamaica was forced to do with Air Jamaica so any money we put in now will be lost.

[Dohplaydat]

There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.

Pretty much sums it all.

You know it often surprises me how much you all can learn from a simple economics class.

There are so many benefits of the air bridge both economic and social. We need a cheap low cost 'bridge' to Tobago. And if anything, an additional flight should be added for ad-hoc travel.

And as for making it profitable, many have tried, it just isn't possible given the ticket price.

[Dizzy28]

Last year Trinidad was approached in a cash for shares deal in Liat and Colm said a resounding no.

Hopefully they stay the course. We can't manage and turn a profit on an airline with North American routes we will try and turn a profit with an airline with only regional routes?
Liat has lots of baggage as well. Apart from their loss making and debt issues its Unions and many government as shareholders

https://www.caribbeanlifenews.com/liats-debt-crisis/

It is quite likely that CAL may acquire LIAT at this point. It could be a good opportunity but they will inherit some debts. There is a CAL chairman I think on the committee for the roadmap forward nonsense so it may be something they government may jump at.

[speedmelter]

There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.

Pretty much sums it all.

You know it often surprises me how much you all can learn from a simple economics class.

There are so many benefits of the air bridge both economic and social. We need a cheap low cost 'bridge' to Tobago. And if anything, an additional flight should be added for ad-hoc travel.

And as for making it profitable, many have tried, it just isn't possible given the ticket price.

The route is way too short to make money from a maintenance and overhead costing standpoint. Tobago should be accessible by boat only and have an emergency chopper for air transport. I don’t understand why there is need to air ferry persons several times for the day across there and back at the taxpayer expense.

[Dizzy28]

There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.

Pretty much sums it all.

You know it often surprises me how much you all can learn from a simple economics class.

There are so many benefits of the air bridge both economic and social. We need a cheap low cost 'bridge' to Tobago. And if anything, an additional flight should be added for ad-hoc travel.

And as for making it profitable, many have tried, it just isn't possible given the ticket price.

The route is way too short to make money from a maintenance and overhead costing standpoint. Tobago should be accessible by boat only and have an emergency chopper for air transport. I don’t understand why there is need to air ferry persons several times for the day across there and back at the taxpayer expense.

The ferries are also heavily subsidized though.
The JDLV costs $263,580 per day to lease. You think it makes anything to close to that in fares?

[Dohplaydat]

There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.

Pretty much sums it all.

You know it often surprises me how much you all can learn from a simple economics class.

There are so many benefits of the air bridge both economic and social. We need a cheap low cost 'bridge' to Tobago. And if anything, an additional flight should be added for ad-hoc travel.

And as for making it profitable, many have tried, it just isn't possible given the ticket price.

The route is way too short to make money from a maintenance and overhead costing standpoint. Tobago should be accessible by boat only and have an emergency chopper for air transport. I don’t understand why there is need to air ferry persons several times for the day across there and back at the taxpayer expense.

Also subsidised and the time it takes is a deterrent for quick travel. But let me guess you're one of those who prefers Tobago secedes from the nation?

[daxt0r]

i find they could charge a higher fare and run less flights to bago to at least break even on the route.
The ferry though would owning the ferry rather than leasing help or we do have capabilities to maintain such a vessel in house?