Flow Internet Thread

[Dave]

Flow doesn't care if you switch especially if not a corporate account.

[bossmann]

Once again garbage rant...

[hydroep]

There's too much competition in the market to be held to ransom by any ISP. If you're dissatisfied just switch...story done.

[ragzinc]

Ok thats it Flow has crossed the fcking line, they switched my package I had a 100mbps Gamers package for $196 a month on the Agreement I would not switch to Digicel Fiber. Now they changed it to 150mbps for $250 without my authorization.

Not sure what you ranting about because they sent an email out to customers - got mine on the December 6th 2019

Say, thank God you get a month extra...

[FrankChag]

What's this gamer pkg? can you still sign up for it?
I have their 250 b/b pkg and i'm paying some more than you have there.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

What's this gamer pkg? can you still sign up for it?
I have their 250 b/b pkg and i'm paying some more than you have there.

I got it back when Digicel came to my area and I was about to switch and Flow decided to give me a special package if I signed up via GATT forum. This was some years ago some years well

I decided to stick with Flow in the end, Digicel while way better latency, I am kinda enjoying the 150mbps now cause I have an SSD which is limited on storage space so its coming in handy to download games on Steam then delete to get space when I want a different one rather than buy a bigger SSD for more money. I guess it worked out in the end

I am unsure why Digicel offers 50mb for $300, doesn't seem to make any sense.

[Dizzy28]

What's this gamer pkg? can you still sign up for it?
I have their 250 b/b pkg and i'm paying some more than you have there.

I got it back when Digicel came to my area and I was about to switch and Flow decided to give me a special package if I signed up via GATT forum. This was some years ago some years well

I decided to stick with Flow in the end, Digicel while way better latency, I am kinda enjoying the 150mbps now cause I have an SSD which is limited on storage space so its coming in handy to download games on Steam then delete to get space when I want a different one rather than buy a bigger SSD for more money. I guess it worked out in the end

I am unsure why Digicel offers 50mb for $300, doesn't seem to make any sense.

Digicel at $300 also includes TV though. There's 26 stations most of which are either local or a waste but you are getting HD stations for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CBC. Its actually not bad for a starter or those who dont care for one setta stations they never watch.

[FrankChag]

What's this gamer pkg? can you still sign up for it?
I have their 250 b/b pkg and i'm paying some more than you have there.

I got it back when Digicel came to my area and I was about to switch and Flow decided to give me a special package if I signed up via GATT forum. This was some years ago some years well

I decided to stick with Flow in the end, Digicel while way better latency, I am kinda enjoying the 150mbps now cause I have an SSD which is limited on storage space so its coming in handy to download games on Steam then delete to get space when I want a different one rather than buy a bigger SSD for more money. I guess it worked out in the end

I am unsure why Digicel offers 50mb for $300, doesn't seem to make any sense.

Digicel at $300 also includes TV though. There's 26 stations most of which are either local or a waste but you are getting HD stations for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CBC. Its actually not bad for a starter or those who dont care for one setta stations they never watch.

Who watches 'cable' tv anymore?
All my 1080p stuff I get from... peers... and news from youtube. Even TTT online now.

I sat down by some folks the other day, flipping channels and got surprisingly irritable, because there was nothing to watch.. we ended opening the youtube app on the TV and watching something.

cable stations are a waste
i'll [binge] watch what i want, where i want, when i want, thank you very much.

[fred1266]

ok yeah I will call and threaten to leave see what happens, I will first wait before I decide if to switch to Digicel cause their package is 50mb for $300 while flow now is 150mb for $250. My biggest concern is how bad flow latency tends to be due to poor routing and how nobody gaming uses Flow these days.

But Ono and Capcom has hinted on updating Street Fighter 5 Netcode, if this is done, most likely it will be done next month I would have much less reasons to switch to Digicel as the shittier ping from Flow would work for SF5.

So you right will wait for now and see what takes place, will attempt to see if I can get my old package back if not will stick with this for the time being.

didn't know flow isn't good for gaming damn i play a lot of fifa so not sure if i get the latency problems you talk about, am to stuck with flow cause i really like there sports package

[rbtnt]

Can we still get this gaming pkg??? Whats the process. (Fingers crossed this is still possible) That 250Mb package looks great for me.

[dean_spleen09]

Can we still get this gaming pkg??? Whats the process. (Fingers crossed this is still possible) That 250Mb package looks great for me.

call the number to find out

[rbtnt]

I called and the helpful lady said that we need to sign up via GATT they will fwd the information to FLOW and someone will contact us with the procedure etc. So i trying to get a contact for GATT now just jumped onto their discord to try and see if anyone can help.

[felix]

Ok thats it Flow has crossed the fcking line, they switched my package I had a 100mbps Gamers package for $196 a month on the Agreement I would not switch to Digicel Fiber. Now they changed it to 150mbps for $250 without my authorization.

Not sure what you ranting about because they sent an email out to customers - got mine on the December 6th 2019

Say, thank God you get a month extra...

has anyone gotten the upgrade 250mbps for $300 as yet i was told in january the packages were not ready

[gastly369]

Gamers package get better ping?

[redmanjp]

What's this gamer pkg? can you still sign up for it?
I have their 250 b/b pkg and i'm paying some more than you have there.

I got it back when Digicel came to my area and I was about to switch and Flow decided to give me a special package if I signed up via GATT forum. This was some years ago some years well

I decided to stick with Flow in the end, Digicel while way better latency, I am kinda enjoying the 150mbps now cause I have an SSD which is limited on storage space so its coming in handy to download games on Steam then delete to get space when I want a different one rather than buy a bigger SSD for more money. I guess it worked out in the end

I am unsure why Digicel offers 50mb for $300, doesn't seem to make any sense.

Digicel at $300 also includes TV though. There's 26 stations most of which are either local or a waste but you are getting HD stations for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CBC. Its actually not bad for a starter or those who dont care for one setta stations they never watch.

TATT didn't ban those stations?

[redmanjp]

There's too much competition in the market to be held to ransom by any ISP. If you're dissatisfied just switch...story done.

Assuming that more than one is available in your area. Would you believe that in Cleaver Heights Arima where they put electricity underground there aren't any ISPs? There aren't even any phone lines either. And worse when I try to apply for the residential wireless LTE from Bmobile they tell me salt. No signal!
For the last EIGHT years we have been using a 2 mbps Blink on the go USB dongle which gets 2 out of 6 bars and manages to get us online. Sharing it via an old laptop with internet connection sharing to my wifi network.

[Dizzy28]

What's this gamer pkg? can you still sign up for it?
I have their 250 b/b pkg and i'm paying some more than you have there.

I got it back when Digicel came to my area and I was about to switch and Flow decided to give me a special package if I signed up via GATT forum. This was some years ago some years well

I decided to stick with Flow in the end, Digicel while way better latency, I am kinda enjoying the 150mbps now cause I have an SSD which is limited on storage space so its coming in handy to download games on Steam then delete to get space when I want a different one rather than buy a bigger SSD for more money. I guess it worked out in the end

I am unsure why Digicel offers 50mb for $300, doesn't seem to make any sense.

Digicel at $300 also includes TV though. There's 26 stations most of which are either local or a waste but you are getting HD stations for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CBC. Its actually not bad for a starter or those who dont care for one setta stations they never watch.

TATT didn't ban those stations?

They issued a statment back in Oct that the american network stations have to go but I still have them on Flow and they are still being advertised by Digicel. So meem know nah.

[shaneelal]

^

[hydroep]

There's too much competition in the market to be held to ransom by any ISP. If you're dissatisfied just switch...story done.

Assuming that more than one is available in your area. Would you believe that in Cleaver Heights Arima where they put electricity underground there aren't any ISPs? There aren't even any phone lines either. And worse when I try to apply for the residential wireless LTE from Bmobile they tell me salt. No signal!
For the last EIGHT years we have been using a 2 mbps Blink on the go USB dongle which gets 2 out of 6 bars and manages to get us online. Sharing it via an old laptop with internet connection sharing to my wifi network.

BWDA...in this day and age? No Digicel wireless either? Dat rough.

Not sure if you've tried it but there are some videos about making an antenna to boost the signal of those USB dongles. Better yet if it has an external antenna jack you can get pre-fabricated antennas off Ebay, just make sure and get one matched to the specific frequency being used.

[dartzreunion]

I got into contact with flow and carigamers and i'm told the package being offered will be 200 Mbps not 250...will update you guys.

[cornfused]

TATT is fighting a losing battle here, many years ago VIOP spelled the end of many copper fixed-line telecom companies. Now with the rate of development of apps many cable channels have their own apps to download on any device. When TATT acceded to the complaint by Direct TV that Flow was stealing US cable channels making it unfair market for them. Do we still have US cable channels on Flow or Digicel? Si Senor

Re Flow, paying for 100mbps, laptops get 25mbps max, phones 40 Mbps, tablets 80mbps

This was after a complaint that we are paying for 100mbps and the 3year-old software updated laptop only gets 15mbps

The CSR reset and reset with no change. A technician came later that said day. Knowledgeable. Two tests were performed a direct line test, the Mbps on the laptop were 13mbps. He then tested the coax with a device to show DHCP Proxies and Latency thresholds. There was a break in the line. This was rectified and the 25mbps on the laptop were achieved.

[redmanjp]

There's too much competition in the market to be held to ransom by any ISP. If you're dissatisfied just switch...story done.

Assuming that more than one is available in your area. Would you believe that in Cleaver Heights Arima where they put electricity underground there aren't any ISPs? There aren't even any phone lines either. And worse when I try to apply for the residential wireless LTE from Bmobile they tell me salt. No signal!
For the last EIGHT years we have been using a 2 mbps Blink on the go USB dongle which gets 2 out of 6 bars and manages to get us online. Sharing it via an old laptop with internet connection sharing to my wifi network.

BWDA...in this day and age? No Digicel wireless either? Dat rough.

Not sure if you've tried it but there are some videos about making an antenna to boost the signal of those USB dongles. Better yet if it has an external antenna jack you can get pre-fabricated antennas off Ebay, just make sure and get one matched to the specific frequency being used.

The thing is the plan itself is only 2mb so improving the signal wont make it any faster. I've enquired about external antennas for tje broadband LTE router but they say even that may not work. Unless I can show that someone close by is getting signal. So far no one is, according to a neighborhood whatsapp group.

[brickman]

TATT is fighting a losing battle here, many years ago VIOP spelled the end of many copper fixed-line telecom companies. Now with the rate of development of apps many cable channels have their own apps to download on any device. When TATT acceded to the complaint by Direct TV that Flow was stealing US cable channels making it unfair market for them. Do we still have US cable channels on Flow or Digicel? Si Senor

Re Flow, paying for 100mbps, laptops get 25mbps max, phones 40 Mbps, tablets 80mbps

This was after a complaint that we are paying for 100mbps and the 3year-old software updated laptop only gets 15mbps

The CSR reset and reset with no change. A technician came later that said day. Knowledgeable. Two tests were performed a direct line test, the Mbps on the laptop were 13mbps. He then tested the coax with a device to show DHCP Proxies and Latency thresholds. There was a break in the line. This was rectified and the 25mbps on the laptop were achieved.

Need to upgrade to 5ghz wifi devices to get that 100 & get a router with gigabit lan ports.Had to buy a better one when i got the 100mbs upgrade.

[maj. tom]

Isn't gaming more about low latency? Why would PC and console gamers in 2020 require such high download bandwidth packages anyway? You can play any game on the market right now with at least 10Mbps down but recommend 25 Mbps and 10Mbps upload. Once the latency is low and the upload speed is high enough. So what is all this bs marketing of higher bandwidth packages (but same ping) from Flow and that these gamers seems to be licking up?

[gastly369]

Well.. Same question I asked..

Isn't gaming more about low latency? Why would PC and console gamers in 2020 require such high download bandwidth packages anyway? You can play any game on the market right now with at least 10Mbps down but recommend 25 Mbps and 10Mbps upload. Once the latency is low and the upload speed is high enough. So what is all this bs marketing of higher bandwidth packages (but same ping) from Flow and that these gamers seems to be licking up?

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

Isn't gaming more about low latency? Why would PC and console gamers in 2020 require such high download bandwidth packages anyway? You can play any game on the market right now with at least 10Mbps down but recommend 25 Mbps and 10Mbps upload. Once the latency is low and the upload speed is high enough. So what is all this bs marketing of higher bandwidth packages (but same ping) from Flow and that these gamers seems to be licking up?

Games only require a 256k connection to function properly, you don't even need a megabit and if you monitor the network activity you would see this to be true so yes you are correct latency is the single most important factor with online games.

Right now in the FGC (Fighting Gaming Community) Online on reddit etc there is a huge debate and push to try and force developers to use Roll Back Netcode as 90% of Japanese fighting games still use delay based netcode. What roll back netcode like GGPO does is try to predict your inputs and then adjust the rollback frame value variable based on the Ping, it then resyncs when inputs cannot be synchronized within whatever value of the maximum rollback frame that is allowed.

It is difficult to explain and even more difficult to understand but the simple explanation of it is it makes your online experience feel closer to something like single player in offline training mode, it seeks to trick us into experiencing a game against an opponent across thousands of miles as tho they are close, so when we press a button on a fightstick or controller or keyboard etc the input will appear on screen almost same time. If the game fcks up cause of lag etc the game can literally ROLL BACK the Damage taken to opponent as if you were reversing time. It could skip and teleport while playing online when the connection isn't stable.

Now comes the perfect netcode but also the most hated Netcode in the Western World, DELAY BASED NETCODE, it has none of the issues of roll back, it syncs the game exactly the same for both players the problem with this is if the connection is far, the frame delay goes up, long distance = higher latency. If the connection is too far when you press an input on your controller you literally have to wait half a second or sometimes even 1 second for the move to appear on screen. Hence the term Input Delay AKA Delay Netcode.

Now comes Flow, their international ISP peering agreements is complete and utter total dog sh!t, in certain places like Canada you can literally get 54ms latency from Trinidad if you are on Digicel where as Flow you will suffer with 140ms or more. There is a misconception that this issue is because Digicel uses Fiber to the Home but that only accounts for saving 10 millisecond since Flow only uses copper for last mile and they use fiber for everything else. The reason Flow sucks @ss for online P2P Gaming is because of their horrible international routing and isp peering agreements etc. You won't notice any issues when doing server based gaming like Counter Strike GO or League of Legends or countless other games.

Fighting games suffer the most from latency because of the nature of how the games work, you literally have to count frame data when playing fighting games online at a somewhat competitive level because of how complex and hard fighting games are to play. It looks simple but at a high level it is incredibly difficult to time your moves and inputs in games like Tekken and Street Fighter 4 that has 1 Frame Links and when latency is high this makes sh!t really bad. Mortal Kombat and Injustice are NOT real fighting games mind you, you can get away with poorer connection in those games as they don't need strict timing to play

This is where Starlink comes in, Elon Musk can kill Fiber for people who want top tier latency across long distance. Just imagine right now a Flow user cannot play P2P games with someone using Digicel because there is 0 peering agreement between flow and digicel so the latency from Piarco to Arouca is WORSE than Trinidad to Europe. What an absolute JOKE these ISP are in this country and is is common of all 3rd world ISP across every 3rd world country mind you. Which is why I can't wait for Starlink, what I love about Starlink is you can follow Elon Musk on twitter and the best part is he is a PC Gamer and he talks about latency and hops and peering agreements, imagine a GAMER developing an ISP worldwide that works at the speed of light.

[kamakazi]

Game downloads aren't exactly what you would call small; and as more companies move to digital distribution and more frequent updates you are now required to download multiple gigabytes across the internet.

For example:
GTA 5 is approx 50gb plus to download
When fallout 76 was released their was a 42gb day one update for consoles (so even though you bought the game on a disc, before you could play you had to get this update across the internet)

Isn't gaming more about low latency? Why would PC and console gamers in 2020 require such high download bandwidth packages anyway? You can play any game on the market right now with at least 10Mbps down but recommend 25 Mbps and 10Mbps upload. Once the latency is low and the upload speed is high enough. So what is all this bs marketing of higher bandwidth packages (but same ping) from Flow and that these gamers seems to be licking up?

[maj. tom]

ok, but you don't download the game every time you want to play it. A regular 50 Mbps connection for a one time download of a 42GB game is reasonable. That would take just 2 hours. Leave Steam to download and update overnight.

25Mbps is recommended for Netflix 4k streaming. The real latency to the game servers are close to 100ms from Flow and that has not changed in any "Gamer's Package."

[kamakazi]

ok, but you don't download the game every time you want to play it. A regular 50 Mbps connection for a one time download of a 42GB game is reasonable. That would take just 2 hours. Leave Steam to download and update overnight.

25Mbps is recommended for Netflix 4k streaming. The real latency to the game servers are close to 100ms from Flow and that has not changed in any "Gamer's Package."

Obviously... But you asked about why gamers would require high download bandwidth packages.

So you get a brand new game, you want to play it, you put it on to be greeted by a 2hr wait. BTW that 2hrs might be in ideal conditions, add a family that wants to watch Netflix or YouTube at the best quality available.

If you have to re download an entire game library.

When you have to download every game while browsing through a library to find one you want to play. Those hours add up quite quickly.

Now some games do allow you to play before the download is completed (clearly they know their Target audience). IIRC fortnite was 12gb but I think they allowed you to play after 4 was downloaded or something similar.

Put another way...Let's say Netflix/YouTube required you to download the equivalent of a Blu-ray disc before you can start watching the movie/short video (and you have a large library to go through; you only have to download it once).


I am in no way arguing against having the lowest latencies possible.. But bandwidth is also beneficial

[adnj]

Re Flow, paying for 100mbps, laptops get 25mbps max, phones 40 Mbps, tablets 80mbps

This was after a complaint that we are paying for 100mbps and the 3year-old software updated laptop only gets 15mbps

Need to upgrade to 5ghz wifi devices to get that 100 & get a router with gigabit lan ports.Had to buy a better one when i got the 100mbs upgrade.

802.11n supports 450 Mbits/sec on 2.4 Ghz bands. Fast Ethernet provides 100 Mbits/sec on 100 meters of cable. Properly installed you don't need an upgrade for a 100 Mbits/sec internet connection.

Though you would typically need to upgrade if you have wireless connection issues or if you are moving around large files on a local network.

There are also known issues with some device drivers not supporting the theoretical maximums.