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Soul Collector
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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Soul Collector » April 22nd, 2021, 3:43 pm

Ministry loves to break your contract and put you down as "monthly services rendered" to avoid paying gratuity. Muchless for the 3 year contract that actually comes to pass - never got paid to this day and never will.

As far as I'm concerned, the public sector is saturated with nepotism and it's only purpose is to provide favours and jobs to those in govt to hand out.

The govt funds gangs and criminals directly through ministry initiatives and programmes. They're just taking care of their own in the public sector too, and you can be damn sure that if anyone is going to be affected, it'll be the lowest bracket, not the ones with high salaries and countless perks.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Habit7 » April 22nd, 2021, 4:11 pm

88sins wrote:
Habit7 wrote:Wasn't this the same case with Petrotrin? Inefficient, top-heavy, indebted, overstaffed and overpaid. Govt corrected it and returned it to profitability and some still call them wicked for doing that.

I think the govt doing that first with the worst state companies, Petrotrin 1st, WASA 2nd. Some might see it as bold but financially they have no choice.

I hope we ready for the ride.


dude, you cannot be serious

Don't just clutch your pearls, point out where I am wrong.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Les Bain » April 22nd, 2021, 4:13 pm

Another trend is management rushing off staff as soon as they reach 60, then replacing them with a bunch of certified ole creck who determined to return the service to the 1970s. These ancient bastards then decide the current support staff not sufficient to support them, so then a bunch of nepotistic hires happen. These new staff excel in loyalty to those who hire them, and completely incompetent otherwise.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Dohplaydat » April 22nd, 2021, 4:27 pm

Right so we're all very aware of the problem and their inefficiency and high salaries is now a huge burden to the country.

Do we lay off? Reduce salaries? Privatise? Re-structure?

I was part of a restructuring process a few years back, in theory we cut opex by a lot, but the inefficiencies remained and got worse in some cases. Mainly due to the employees who stayed weren't the ones we wanted to keep. Many of the best performers took their separation packages and ran to private companies or foreign, leaving us with slow unionised employees.

So a better restructuring plan can work, also cutting salaries as opposed to laying off is better in general IMO.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby teems1 » April 22nd, 2021, 5:27 pm

Wow. To think you have the same voting power as regular people.
matr1x wrote:An interesting question.


The real question is, what value do private sector companies bring to the economy? Right now they eat more than they contribute.

Most private companies skirt taxes and ask any inland revenue find officer how much pressure it is to collect taxes from private companies.

Salaries aren't just figures that fall from the sky

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby 88sins » April 22nd, 2021, 7:26 pm

Habit7 wrote:
88sins wrote:
Habit7 wrote:Wasn't this the same case with Petrotrin? Inefficient, top-heavy, indebted, overstaffed and overpaid. Govt corrected it and returned it to profitability and some still call them wicked for doing that.

I think the govt doing that first with the worst state companies, Petrotrin 1st, WASA 2nd. Some might see it as bold but financially they have no choice.

I hope we ready for the ride.


dude, you cannot be serious

Don't just clutch your pearls, point out where I am wrong.

In short, you have a problem with math, in that you prefer to don't use any.
Dismantling an entity that is not profitable does not equate to making that entity profitable. Going from minus 1 to absolute zero is not profit

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby goalpost » April 22nd, 2021, 7:39 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:
death365 wrote:What's laughingly called the public service is very segmented comprising of civil service, daily rated employees, contract offices, teaching service.

Only civil and teaching receives pension. Contract gets gratuity after each contract usually 3 yrs and daily paid get a lump sum.

Grauity is in lieu of a pension, a lump sum payment by pension section of treasury.

So further to this u all can go ahead with bashing govt workers now


What's your solution? Government service jobs across the world are notoriously inefficient, though we might be one of the worst.

Also, our government service definitely has over inflated salaries.

T&TEC admin Clarks get 17-22k /mo and most of them sit down and scratch whole day.

In Trinidad, people aspire to get a lazy high paid government job.

Look this example, my friend is a civil engineer for Ministry of works, he makes 23k a month. He goes to work for 9am rides out a 3pm and barely has anything to do.

Another girl I know, same level of experience works at a private company for 13k a month, works 8am to 5pm, most Saturdays as well.

In most countries the salaries would be reversed, but here we have a private sector that takes advantage (rightfully so) of a desparate hunters who's main goal would be to land a cushy government job.

That's our problem right there, that imbalance. Any country that has a system like this is destined to fail..


You'd be surprised the amount of work and knowledge these ttec admin clerks need both financially and technically
Plus that salary range is exaggerated.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby widdyphuck » April 22nd, 2021, 7:42 pm

goalpost wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
death365 wrote:What's laughingly called the public service is very segmented comprising of civil service, daily rated employees, contract offices, teaching service.

Only civil and teaching receives pension. Contract gets gratuity after each contract usually 3 yrs and daily paid get a lump sum.

Grauity is in lieu of a pension, a lump sum payment by pension section of treasury.

So further to this u all can go ahead with bashing govt workers now


What's your solution? Government service jobs across the world are notoriously inefficient, though we might be one of the worst.

Also, our government service definitely has over inflated salaries.

T&TEC admin Clarks get 17-22k /mo and most of them sit down and scratch whole day.

In Trinidad, people aspire to get a lazy high paid government job.

Look this example, my friend is a civil engineer for Ministry of works, he makes 23k a month. He goes to work for 9am rides out a 3pm and barely has anything to do.

Another girl I know, same level of experience works at a private company for 13k a month, works 8am to 5pm, most Saturdays as well.

In most countries the salaries would be reversed, but here we have a private sector that takes advantage (rightfully so) of a desparate hunters who's main goal would be to land a cushy government job.

That's our problem right there, that imbalance. Any country that has a system like this is destined to fail..


You'd be surprised the amount of work and knowledge these ttec admin clerks need both financially and technically
Plus that salary range is exaggerated.
Amount of work and knowledge...that's a friend and family position not available to the average man.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby h1tach1 » April 22nd, 2021, 7:48 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:
death365 wrote:What's laughingly called the public service is very segmented comprising of civil service, daily rated employees, contract offices, teaching service.

Only civil and teaching receives pension. Contract gets gratuity after each contract usually 3 yrs and daily paid get a lump sum.

Grauity is in lieu of a pension, a lump sum payment by pension section of treasury.

So further to this u all can go ahead with bashing govt workers now


What's your solution? Government service jobs across the world are notoriously inefficient, though we might be one of the worst.

Also, our government service definitely has over inflated salaries.

T&TEC admin Clarks get 17-22k /mo and most of them sit down and scratch whole day.

In Trinidad, people aspire to get a lazy high paid government job.

Look this example, my friend is a civil engineer for Ministry of works, he makes 23k a month. He goes to work for 9am rides out a 3pm and barely has anything to do.

Another girl I know, same level of experience works at a private company for 13k a month, works 8am to 5pm, most Saturdays as well.

In most countries the salaries would be reversed, but here we have a private sector that takes advantage (rightfully so) of a desparate hunters who's main goal would be to land a cushy government job.

That's our problem right there, that imbalance. Any country that has a system like this is destined to fail..



This is most likely because they are on the same pay group (senior staff, junior staff, etc.) as the technical staff. When the union negotiates for an increase, it is across the board. So what I have noticed, is that the technical (highly skilled staff) are underpaid, while the non-technical (less skilled staff) are overpaid by industry standards.

To ensure staff are fairly paid, they should be separated into either technical or non-technical and salaries negotiated separately. I suspect most unions will not want to do this as to maintain a small disparity in wages between their members. I do not agree with this, but again, this has been my observations.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Dohplaydat » April 22nd, 2021, 8:35 pm

You're mostly right but in T&TEC engineers have their own levels but I do know engineers who started as clerks.
Last edited by Dohplaydat on April 22nd, 2021, 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby goalpost » April 22nd, 2021, 8:43 pm

Ttec staff (Owtu) are divided into grades, with the clerks being on the lower range and some engineers (the junior engineers) on the higher range. The more senior engineers are not owtu

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Habit7 » April 22nd, 2021, 11:15 pm

88sins wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
88sins wrote:
Habit7 wrote:Wasn't this the same case with Petrotrin? Inefficient, top-heavy, indebted, overstaffed and overpaid. Govt corrected it and returned it to profitability and some still call them wicked for doing that.

I think the govt doing that first with the worst state companies, Petrotrin 1st, WASA 2nd. Some might see it as bold but financially they have no choice.

I hope we ready for the ride.


dude, you cannot be serious

Don't just clutch your pearls, point out where I am wrong.

In short, you have a problem with math, in that you prefer to don't use any.
Dismantling an entity that is not profitable does not equate to making that entity profitable. Going from minus 1 to absolute zero is not profit

Do you think I am just sharing my opinion? HPCL made an audited profit of $1.4B in 2019. They made a profit too in 2020 but won't state it because it is not finished audited yet. Whether you want to admit it or not, they reduced their headcount, rationalised their pay structure, adopted private sector best practices and they are reaping the rewards, This is a model for other state companies.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby matr1x » April 23rd, 2021, 9:07 am

teems1 wrote:Wow. To think you have the same voting power as regular people.
matr1x wrote:An interesting question.


The real question is, what value do private sector companies bring to the economy? Right now they eat more than they contribute.

Most private companies skirt taxes and ask any inland revenue find officer how much pressure it is to collect taxes from private companies.

Salaries aren't just figures that fall from the sky



Look at the major eaters of forex. There is your answer

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Kickstart » April 23rd, 2021, 9:11 am

Habit7 wrote:
88sins wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
88sins wrote:
Habit7 wrote:Wasn't this the same case with Petrotrin? Inefficient, top-heavy, indebted, overstaffed and overpaid. Govt corrected it and returned it to profitability and some still call them wicked for doing that.

I think the govt doing that first with the worst state companies, Petrotrin 1st, WASA 2nd. Some might see it as bold but financially they have no choice.

I hope we ready for the ride.


dude, you cannot be serious

Don't just clutch your pearls, point out where I am wrong.

In short, you have a problem with math, in that you prefer to don't use any.
Dismantling an entity that is not profitable does not equate to making that entity profitable. Going from minus 1 to absolute zero is not profit

Do you think I am just sharing my opinion? HPCL made an audited profit of $1.4B in 2019. They made a profit too in 2020 but won't state it because it is not finished audited yet. Whether you want to admit it or not, they reduced their headcount, rationalised their pay structure, adopted private sector best practices and they are reaping the rewards, This is a model for other state companies.
And where does this leave the workforce that they once had?

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Dizzy28 » April 23rd, 2021, 10:10 am

matr1x wrote:
teems1 wrote:Wow. To think you have the same voting power as regular people.
matr1x wrote:An interesting question.


The real question is, what value do private sector companies bring to the economy? Right now they eat more than they contribute.

Most private companies skirt taxes and ask any inland revenue find officer how much pressure it is to collect taxes from private companies.

Salaries aren't just figures that fall from the sky



Look at the major eaters of forex. There is your answer


When the major consumers of forex use it they actually buying products for joe public to use. Pricemart, Massy and Unicomer's business are to sell consumer goods to the public. Massy and Ansa not importing all the cars for themselves.

The major eater of forex are Trinis with their lifestyles.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Soundstream_626 » April 23rd, 2021, 12:18 pm

Not sure of agencies like wasa and t&tec etc but just a little reference.
A clerk 1 salary is apprx 5500/mo before deductions, clerk 2, around 6800, clerk 3 around 7300.

There are numerous posts that have been made redundant because of computerisation. Where probably ten people were needed in a section, now because of computerisation, you may need lets say 7 and they never addressed this. The hate for the normal government employee is strong but your focus should be on the management policies implemented by those at the head.

Better questions to ask would be, if a government department has its own legal team, why then do they pay contracted senior counsels $86000.00 per case for legal advice. (written on one of the invoices I saw was $2000.00 for photocopies).

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Dohplaydat » April 23rd, 2021, 12:34 pm

Soundstream_626 wrote:Not sure of agencies like wasa and t&tec etc but just a little reference.
A clerk 1 salary is apprx 5500/mo before deductions, clerk 2, around 6800, clerk 3 around 7300.

There are numerous posts that have been made redundant because of computerisation. Where probably ten people were needed in a section, now because of computerisation, you may need lets say 7 and they never addressed this. The hate for the normal government employee is strong but your focus should be on the management policies implemented by those at the head.

Better questions to ask would be, if a government department has its own legal team, why then do they pay contracted senior counsels $86000.00 per case for legal advice. (written on one of the invoices I saw was $2000.00 for photocopies).


I don't know much about WASA, but places with unionized staff at T&TEC and TSTT make very decent salaries.

TSTT workers for the most part have to be productive now given the mass layoffs over the last 5-6 years. T&TEC workers are too comfortable and probably have some of the highest salaries in all state enterprises (minus Petrotrin days).

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby De Dragon » April 23rd, 2021, 12:37 pm

Habit7 wrote:
88sins wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
88sins wrote:
Habit7 wrote:Wasn't this the same case with Petrotrin? Inefficient, top-heavy, indebted, overstaffed and overpaid. Govt corrected it and returned it to profitability and some still call them wicked for doing that.

I think the govt doing that first with the worst state companies, Petrotrin 1st, WASA 2nd. Some might see it as bold but financially they have no choice.

I hope we ready for the ride.


dude, you cannot be serious

Don't just clutch your pearls, point out where I am wrong.

In short, you have a problem with math, in that you prefer to don't use any.
Dismantling an entity that is not profitable does not equate to making that entity profitable. Going from minus 1 to absolute zero is not profit

Do you think I am just sharing my opinion? HPCL made an audited profit of $1.4B in 2019. They made a profit too in 2020 but won't state it because it is not finished audited yet. Whether you want to admit it or not, they reduced their headcount, rationalised their pay structure, adopted private sector best practices and they are reaping the rewards, This is a model for other state companies.

Yes, now we're just $200M short of the USD spent on importing fuel. :roll:
You're still too dotish to realize that, even now.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Habit7 » April 23rd, 2021, 12:53 pm

De Dragon wrote:Yes, now we're just $200M short of the USD spent on importing fuel. :roll:
You're still too dotish to realize that, even now.

Yip I am the dotish one :roll:
https://newsday.co.tt/2020/07/09/paria- ... n-revenue/

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Kickstart » April 23rd, 2021, 1:20 pm

Habit7 wrote:
De Dragon wrote:Yes, now we're just $200M short of the USD spent on importing fuel. :roll:
You're still too dotish to realize that, even now.

Yip I am the dotish one :roll:
https://newsday.co.tt/2020/07/09/paria- ... n-revenue/


If this is as they said then I believe the public wont see this money , it will all be swept away as they rest

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Habit7 » April 23rd, 2021, 1:51 pm

Kickstart wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
De Dragon wrote:Yes, now we're just $200M short of the USD spent on importing fuel. :roll:
You're still too dotish to realize that, even now.

Yip I am the dotish one :roll:
https://newsday.co.tt/2020/07/09/paria- ... n-revenue/


If this is as they said then I believe the public wont see this money , it will all be swept away as they rest

Ok Sherlock

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby De Dragon » April 23rd, 2021, 2:08 pm

Habit7 wrote:
De Dragon wrote:Yes, now we're just $200M short of the USD spent on importing fuel. :roll:
You're still too dotish to realize that, even now.

Yip I am the dotish one :roll:
https://newsday.co.tt/2020/07/09/paria- ... n-revenue/

Quoted for absolute truthfulness and self realization. :lol:

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby De Dragon » April 23rd, 2021, 2:16 pm

Also like the 2.1% "growth" known lackey and Speaker's husband who always manages to land cushy Board jobs like HDC/PT Newman George is very short on specifics
“As the company manages to lower demand for fuel due to the covid19 restrictions, the board and management have been placing greater emphasis on business efficiency and lowering the cost of operations to ensure sustainable profitability,” George said.
Gobblygook, because you're spending $250M USD in fuel imports, yet making a profit? Granted the refinery is down, but how is reselling a finished product in a tight market that profitable? Also there is the tricky, persistent question of the waiver of the SPT to create the illusion of profitability, but hey, to Tunts7 LFD RFD PNM through their stooges and lackeys say so, so it must be true :roll:

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Habit7 » April 23rd, 2021, 2:17 pm

De Dragon wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
De Dragon wrote:Yes, now we're just $200M short of the USD spent on importing fuel. :roll:
You're still too dotish to realize that, even now.

Yip I am the dotish one :roll:
https://newsday.co.tt/2020/07/09/paria- ... n-revenue/

Quoted for absolute truthfulness and self realization. :lol:

Yes because the post above was wrong.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Kickstart » April 23rd, 2021, 2:32 pm

Habit7 wrote:
Kickstart wrote:
Habit7 wrote:
De Dragon wrote:Yes, now we're just $200M short of the USD spent on importing fuel. :roll:
You're still too dotish to realize that, even now.

Yip I am the dotish one :roll:
https://newsday.co.tt/2020/07/09/paria- ... n-revenue/


If this is as they said then I believe the public wont see this money , it will all be swept away as they rest

Ok Sherlock
Best you reply as " OK " or " Noted "

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby viedcht » April 23rd, 2021, 3:10 pm

A clerk I is Range 14... For comparison a Range 60 is around 13k-14k
daron wrote:anyone knows the average salary a normal clerk 1 makes from a ministry?

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby 88sins » April 23rd, 2021, 3:37 pm

Habit7 wrote:Do you think I am just sharing my opinion? HPCL made an audited profit of $1.4B in 2019. They made a profit too in 2020 but won't state it because it is not finished audited yet. Whether you want to admit it or not, they reduced their headcount, rationalised their pay structure, adopted private sector best practices and they are reaping the rewards, This is a model for other state companies.

HPCL & Petrotrin are not the same company. So by you saying Petrotrin made a profit when it no longer exists and trying to use HPCL audited fs as justification of your claim to me sounds like you grasping for non-existent straws trying to convince somebody that you actually have a clue what you posting about.

but whatever, me doh business, think & believe what you want all you like to your little heart's content.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby Habit7 » April 23rd, 2021, 3:59 pm

88sins wrote:
Habit7 wrote:Do you think I am just sharing my opinion? HPCL made an audited profit of $1.4B in 2019. They made a profit too in 2020 but won't state it because it is not finished audited yet. Whether you want to admit it or not, they reduced their headcount, rationalised their pay structure, adopted private sector best practices and they are reaping the rewards, This is a model for other state companies.

HPCL & Petrotrin are not the same company. So by you saying Petrotrin made a profit when it no longer exists and trying to use HPCL audited fs as justification of your claim to me sounds like you grasping for non-existent straws trying to convince somebody that you actually have a clue what you posting about.

but whatever, me doh business, think & believe what you want all you like to your little heart's content.

HPCL made a profit
Paria made a profit
Guaracara is idling and whatever costs can comfortably be held by TPHL

So I agree HPCL is not Petrotrin, but TPHL is the closest thing to Petrotrin and it is profitable. I still don't understand what the original beat up was about.

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby matr1x » April 23rd, 2021, 5:26 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:
matr1x wrote:
teems1 wrote:Wow. To think you have the same voting power as regular people.
matr1x wrote:An interesting question.


The real question is, what value do private sector companies bring to the economy? Right now they eat more than they contribute.

Most private companies skirt taxes and ask any inland revenue find officer how much pressure it is to collect taxes from private companies.

Salaries aren't just figures that fall from the sky



Look at the major eaters of forex. There is your answer


When the major consumers of forex use it they actually buying products for joe public to use. Pricemart, Massy and Unicomer's business are to sell consumer goods to the public. Massy and Ansa not importing all the cars for themselves.

The major eater of forex are Trinis with their lifestyles.



This shows you are an idiot. So, what? Drive donkey cart?

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Re: Public sector salaries

Postby ProtonPowder » April 23rd, 2021, 5:33 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:
matr1x wrote:
teems1 wrote:Wow. To think you have the same voting power as regular people.
matr1x wrote:An interesting question.


The real question is, what value do private sector companies bring to the economy? Right now they eat more than they contribute.

Most private companies skirt taxes and ask any inland revenue find officer how much pressure it is to collect taxes from private companies.

Salaries aren't just figures that fall from the sky



Look at the major eaters of forex. There is your answer


When the major consumers of forex use it they actually buying products for joe public to use. Pricemart, Massy and Unicomer's business are to sell consumer goods to the public. Massy and Ansa not importing all the cars for themselves.

The major eater of forex are Trinis with their lifestyles.

Standards of living are supposed to improve as a country becomes more developed. Trinidad does not manufacture the goods that are typically consumed when living standards are increased.

If you want to be the ideal citizen according to Clarence "imported doubles" "ketchup forex" Rambharat, go live in a country with no hope for development.

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