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we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

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we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby sMASH » February 10th, 2021, 8:54 am

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/02/10/rambha ... han-a-gun/

newsday wrote:Rambharat: Pepper spray deadlier than a gun
Sean Douglas 4 Hrs Ago


WHILE saying the National Security Council (NSC) will consider a report done on the use of pepper spray, Agriculture Minister Clarence Rambharat warned that this protective measure can be deadlier than a firearm.

He spoke on Tuesday in the Senate in reply to a motion on the adjournment by Independent Senator Paul Richards calling for the legalisation of non-lethal weapons to arm women, following the recent murders of Andrea Bharatt and Ashanti Riley.

Saying TT has seen decades of heinous actions against women and girls, Richards said the country is past tipping point and is now at “tripping point” where citizens want to seek their own justice.

He begged the government that women be given pepper spray to have a fighting chance against assailants, and to give women hope.

“If it saves one life, it is worth it,” Richards said.

On concerns about criminals using pepper spray on victims, he said criminals already have guns and knives. Richards said 743 women were murdered in TT from 2000 to 2019, while thousands have suffered rape.

“There are predators and rapists roaming the streets, and women have a right to defend themselves but they just don’t have the tools to do so at this time,” Richards said.

Replying on behalf of National Security Minister Stuart Young, Rambharat said that past governments gave commitments for non-lethal weapons for the police, namely Tasers and pepper spray, both of which they only recently received.

He recalled growing up in the countryside where everyone kept some sort of weapon.

“You were always warned to be on the receiving end of the weapon you carried. Pepper spray could be more lethal than a firearm in the wrong hands,” Rambharat said.

While saying TT already has significant control over the availability of firearms, Rambharat said many issues arise if making pepper spray available.

He said the Office of Law Enforcement Policy (OLEP) in the Ministry of National Security had done a study and compiled a report.

The NSC, he said, is due to deliberate the report and then make recommendations to Cabinet.

Rambharat said some individuals reported the ill-effects of the Moruga Scorpion Pepper as being “like a heart attack.”

Saying the strength of pepper spray is typically three times higher than that, he claimed, “It is more lethal than a firearm.”


well thats it there. if its deadlier than a fire arm, it might be in the classification of assault weapons, so only farris chirren could get to permission to use it

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby aaron17 » February 10th, 2021, 8:57 am

Ok so let's legalise guns then..since its less lethal.. steups
But anything can be a lethal weapon..once you know what to do with it...

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby pugboy » February 10th, 2021, 9:02 am

deadlier means you can die?
how does pepper spray kill?

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby Dizzy28 » February 10th, 2021, 9:02 am

If pepper spray deadlier than a gun then I going and put in an order for a CZ

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby aaron17 » February 10th, 2021, 9:05 am

"While saying TT already has significant control over the availability of firearms"

Somebody explain this because I thought guns are coming illegally as normal.

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we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby MaxPower » February 10th, 2021, 9:44 am

If pepper spray could be worse, then to get legal firearms (FUL) should be easier?

How is the process going for applicants?

Allyuh getting through or they still delaying delaying for a lil small change?

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby 88sins » February 10th, 2021, 10:52 am

aaron17 wrote:Ok so let's legalise guns then..since its less lethal.. steups
But anything can be a lethal weapon..once you know what to do with it...

Dizzy28 wrote:If pepper spray deadlier than a gun then I going and put in an order for a CZ
aaron17 wrote:"While saying TT already has significant control over the availability of firearms"

Somebody explain this because I thought guns are coming illegally as normal.

I glad allyuh seeing exactly how the firearms act was the act of an ass, that was written by asses, with the sole intention to severely restrict the means via which you may defend yourselves, your family and your property.
If you don't believe that's true, go ask the Firearms Appeal Board that supposed to review delayed and denied F.U.L. applications the CoP deems unimportant or undeserving of an FUL. oh, wait, I just remembered, you can't, because even tho it still exists there's nobody there to hear your complaints. methinks this wasn't an accident or an error.

Is years now I saying, having the CoP as the sole individual with oversight wrt who should or shouldn't be allowed to keep and carry a firearm by way of the firearms act is one of if not the most jackass piece of legislation this country has ever implemented, and they want it like that, and have zero intent to alter it in any way other than to increase the penalties for possession of what's deemed by law to be an illegal firearm.

What's needed is not a firearms appeal board. What's needed is a firearms licencing and management agency, to serve the purpose of receiving applications, issuance/revokation of licenses, log firearms serial numbers and ballistics data, to store and eventually destroy seized illegal firearms, among other things, and more importantly a change in the law that would allow any homeowner or business operator to have and keep a shotgun on their premises and ONLY on their premises, that is providing specific detailed established and widely known qualifying criteria are met by the applicant.


but nah, it better to have one man decide what you can have based on qualifying criteria he alone decides and can change on a whim, qualifying requirements that nobody knows about, so whether you successfully jump through all his hoops or not he can still tell you to fvck off after you've been waiting for 2 decades, without even the basic courtesy of giving you an explanation of why your application was denied (an explanation that he is actually dutybound by law to give you when he denies your application btw)


the people like it like that, so let it be so. No firearms, no pepper spray, not even a pointy matchstick for nobody. take rape, robbery & murder, because as far as they concerned they already decided the life and existence of each and every citizen in this country that isn't in their little circles is without worth, thus doesn't need protecting.

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby Rovin » February 10th, 2021, 10:55 am

anything can be a weapon like common items : $20 screwdriver , $5.00 knife , $50 3canal , $10 icepick , $50 chinese chopper , piece of 2x2 wood etc

authorities have a point in that bandits can also use same pepper spray to temp blind\stun ppl to rob them but now we at a point that women have nothing to help ward off a predator

a quick google says pepper spray is allowed in all 50 states in d usa ....

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby bluefete » February 10th, 2021, 10:57 am

First doubles now pepper spray. Clarence is the best of the PNM. Sorry to say but he is one a.s

It shows that we have a big set of dummies in Parliament and in the Senate ON BOTH SIDES!

In the UK, there is a Red Spray law that allows women to carry a spray (dye) that stays on the perpetrator for about 7 days. This is a legal alternative to pepper spray.

NOTE: Pepper spray is ILLEGAL in the UK.

Image

https://www.vestguard.co.uk/eveaid-pers ... spray.html

https://www.ukpreppersguide.co.uk/uk-le ... for-women/
Last edited by bluefete on February 10th, 2021, 11:04 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby 88sins » February 10th, 2021, 10:58 am

pugboy wrote:deadlier means you can die?
how does pepper spray kill?

Anaphylaxis is one way. If it gets into the airways is another.
people can die from anything, depends on it's potency, how it's applied, how much is applied, and the underlying health factors that the users and receivers may or may not be aware of.

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby death365 » February 10th, 2021, 11:13 am

quite true




Rovin wrote:anything can be a weapon like common items : $20 screwdriver , $5.00 knife , $50 3canal , $10 icepick , $50 chinese chopper , piece of 2x2 wood etc

authorities have a point in that bandits can also use same pepper spray to temp blind\stun ppl to rob them but now we at a point that women have nothing to help ward off a predator

a quick google says pepper spray is allowed in all 50 states in d usa ....

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby Dohplaydat » February 10th, 2021, 11:29 am

bluefete wrote:First doubles now pepper spray. Clarence is the best of the PNM. Sorry to say but he is one a.s

It shows that we have a big set of dummies in Parliament and in the Senate ON BOTH SIDES!

In the UK, there is a Red Spray law that allows women to carry a spray (dye) that stays on the perpetrator for about 7 days. This is a legal alternative to pepper spray.

NOTE: Pepper spray is ILLEGAL in the UK.

Image

https://www.vestguard.co.uk/eveaid-pers ... spray.html

https://www.ukpreppersguide.co.uk/uk-le ... for-women/


UK is a different culture boy, just imagine a kingdom of 60M people has roughly the same number of murders per year as us.

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby MaxPower » February 10th, 2021, 11:32 am

88sins wrote:I glad allyuh seeing exactly how the firearms act was the act of an ass, that was written by asses, with the sole intention to severely restrict the means via which you may defend yourselves, your family and your property.
If you don't believe that's true, go ask the Firearms Appeal Board that supposed to review delayed and denied F.U.L. applications the CoP deems unimportant or undeserving of an FUL. oh, wait, I just remembered, you can't, because even tho it still exists there's nobody there to hear your complaints. methinks this wasn't an accident or an error.

Is years now I saying, having the CoP as the sole individual with oversight wrt who should or shouldn't be allowed to keep and carry a firearm by way of the firearms act is one of if not the most jackass piece of legislation this country has ever implemented, and they want it like that, and have zero intent to alter it in any way other than to increase the penalties for possession of what's deemed by law to be an illegal firearm.

What's needed is not a firearms appeal board. What's needed is a firearms licencing and management agency, to serve the purpose of receiving applications, issuance/revokation of licenses, log firearms serial numbers and ballistics data, to store and eventually destroy seized illegal firearms, among other things, and more importantly a change in the law that would allow any homeowner or business operator to have and keep a shotgun on their premises and ONLY on their premises, that is providing specific detailed established and widely known qualifying criteria are met by the applicant.


but nah, it better to have one man decide what you can have based on qualifying criteria he alone decides and can change on a whim, qualifying requirements that nobody knows about, so whether you successfully jump through all his hoops or not he can still tell you to fvck off after you've been waiting for 2 decades, without even the basic courtesy of giving you an explanation of why your application was denied (an explanation that he is actually dutybound by law to give you when he denies your application btw)


the people like it like that, so let it be so. No firearms, no pepper spray, not even a pointy matchstick for nobody. take rape, robbery & murder, because as far as they concerned they already decided the life and existence of each and every citizen in this country that isn't in their little circles is without worth, thus doesn't need protecting.


88,

So all this encouragement from the CoP for citizens to apply for their FUL’s is BS?

I thought he said 400 FUL’s issued last year?

I thought people saying in 2 years or so you sure to get through?

I thought people say things moving faster?

I know men who apply and feeling like shilling because they got a “File #” the police “came home” to check their property/safe etc....some even got their 2 months Provisional and it stops there or before.

The TTPS simply does not want citizens to have their FULs and its rel bad mind ting when it comes to handling applications etc.

At the same time, Trinis are really too irresponsible, but we have some citizens who really need the protection but are simply average Joes.

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby Rovin » February 10th, 2021, 11:33 am

bluefete wrote:First doubles now pepper spray. Clarence is the best of the PNM. Sorry to say but he is one a.s

It shows that we have a big set of dummies in Parliament and in the Senate ON BOTH SIDES!

In the UK, there is a Red Spray law that allows women to carry a spray (dye) that stays on the perpetrator for about 7 days. This is a legal alternative to pepper spray.

NOTE: Pepper spray is ILLEGAL in the UK.

Image

https://www.vestguard.co.uk/eveaid-pers ... spray.html

https://www.ukpreppersguide.co.uk/uk-le ... for-women/



interesting , i only had searched it for America since we follow everything they do

googlo say in d UK they consider it as an offensive weapon

i see some mentioning MACE which is entirely a different thing ...

Mace and pepper spray are two DIFFERENT self defense products: Traditional chemical mace (CN) is classified as an irritant and is similar to tear gas. Pepper spray is classified as an inflammatory agent and will immediately incapacitate an assailant.

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby DMan7 » February 10th, 2021, 12:05 pm

What if the assailants all start wearing sunglasses? How effective can the pepper spray truly be?

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby j.o.e » February 10th, 2021, 12:14 pm

DMan7 wrote:What if the assailants all start wearing sunglasses? How effective can the pepper spray truly be?


These are the effects of pepper spray
Swelling of Mucous Membranes of Eyes, Nose & Throat
Nasal & Sinus Discharge
Coughing
Shortness of Breath
Drying of the Eyes
Involuntary Eye Closure
Painful Burning of the Skin
Hyperventilation

Goggles will help but not 100%
Also who cares. It’s a tool for protection guns are still useful even if body armor exists

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby alfa » February 10th, 2021, 1:56 pm

MaxPower wrote:
88sins wrote:I glad allyuh seeing exactly how the firearms act was the act of an ass, that was written by asses, with the sole intention to severely restrict the means via which you may defend yourselves, your family and your property.
If you don't believe that's true, go ask the Firearms Appeal Board that supposed to review delayed and denied F.U.L. applications the CoP deems unimportant or undeserving of an FUL. oh, wait, I just remembered, you can't, because even tho it still exists there's nobody there to hear your complaints. methinks this wasn't an accident or an error.

Is years now I saying, having the CoP as the sole individual with oversight wrt who should or shouldn't be allowed to keep and carry a firearm by way of the firearms act is one of if not the most jackass piece of legislation this country has ever implemented, and they want it like that, and have zero intent to alter it in any way other than to increase the penalties for possession of what's deemed by law to be an illegal firearm.

What's needed is not a firearms appeal board. What's needed is a firearms licencing and management agency, to serve the purpose of receiving applications, issuance/revokation of licenses, log firearms serial numbers and ballistics data, to store and eventually destroy seized illegal firearms, among other things, and more importantly a change in the law that would allow any homeowner or business operator to have and keep a shotgun on their premises and ONLY on their premises, that is providing specific detailed established and widely known qualifying criteria are met by the applicant.


but nah, it better to have one man decide what you can have based on qualifying criteria he alone decides and can change on a whim, qualifying requirements that nobody knows about, so whether you successfully jump through all his hoops or not he can still tell you to fvck off after you've been waiting for 2 decades, without even the basic courtesy of giving you an explanation of why your application was denied (an explanation that he is actually dutybound by law to give you when he denies your application btw)


the people like it like that, so let it be so. No firearms, no pepper spray, not even a pointy matchstick for nobody. take rape, robbery & murder, because as far as they concerned they already decided the life and existence of each and every citizen in this country that isn't in their little circles is without worth, thus doesn't need protecting.


88,

So all this encouragement from the CoP for citizens to apply for their FUL’s is BS?

I thought he said 400 FUL’s issued last year?

I thought people saying in 2 years or so you sure to get through?

I thought people say things moving faster?

I know men who apply and feeling like shilling because they got a “File #” the police “came home” to check their property/safe etc....some even got their 2 months Provisional and it stops there or before.

The TTPS simply does not want citizens to have their FULs and its rel bad mind ting when it comes to handling applications etc.

At the same time, Trinis are really too irresponsible, but we have some citizens who really need the protection but are simply average Joes.

The process has been speeded up for business owners but unfortunately for average Joes as you say it doesn't make much of a difference. Once you apply the police actually perform their part by doing the requisite background checks but when your file goes back to admin it's where it stops

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby 88sins » February 10th, 2021, 2:59 pm

Rovin wrote:anything can be a weapon like common items : $20 screwdriver , $5.00 knife , $50 3canal , $10 icepick , $50 chinese chopper , piece of 2x2 wood etc

authorities have a point in that bandits can also use same pepper spray to temp blind\stun ppl to rob them but now we at a point that women have nothing to help ward off a predator

a quick google says pepper spray is allowed in all 50 states in d usa ....

Quite true, but we must differentiate between offensive & defensive weapons. A plastic bag, a cup of water, hell even a drinking straw can be used as a weapon. all depends on the person doing the wielding and if they know how to use it as a weapon and their reasons for doing so.

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby 88sins » February 10th, 2021, 3:03 pm

alfa wrote:The process has been speeded up for business owners but unfortunately for average Joes as you say it doesn't make much of a difference. Once you apply the police actually perform their part by doing the requisite background checks but when your file goes back to admin it's where it stops

not even for business owners.
but then again, it depends on how you define "speeded up"

going forward the word is sped btw :lol:

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby pugboy » February 10th, 2021, 3:06 pm

hahaha

the file # is like the promised land indeed. that is when you can decide if to pay or not depending on who you are and what % you lie in.

MaxPower wrote:I know men who apply and feeling like shilling because they got a “File #” the police “came home” to check their property/safe etc....some even got their 2 months Provisional and it stops there or before.

The TTPS simply does not want citizens to have their FULs and its rel bad mind ting when it comes to handling applications etc.

At the same time, Trinis are really too irresponsible, but we have some citizens who really need the protection but are simply average Joes.

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby MaxPower » February 10th, 2021, 3:08 pm

88sins wrote:
alfa wrote:The process has been speeded up for business owners but unfortunately for average Joes as you say it doesn't make much of a difference. Once you apply the police actually perform their part by doing the requisite background checks but when your file goes back to admin it's where it stops

not even for business owners.
but then again, it depends on how you define "speeded up"

going forward the word is sped btw :lol:


Ok got it, so same ole nothing has changed.

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby De Dragon » February 10th, 2021, 3:16 pm

Sore loser, and convenient Canadian loser Rambharat should give us a demonstration so we could be sure

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby pugboy » February 10th, 2021, 3:20 pm

the processing fee price changed

it is currently $30k, a small increase

MaxPower wrote:
88sins wrote:
alfa wrote:The process has been speeded up for business owners but unfortunately for average Joes as you say it doesn't make much of a difference. Once you apply the police actually perform their part by doing the requisite background checks but when your file goes back to admin it's where it stops

not even for business owners.
but then again, it depends on how you define "speeded up"

going forward the word is sped btw :lol:


Ok got it, so same ole nothing has changed.

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we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby MaxPower » February 10th, 2021, 3:28 pm

pugboy wrote:the processing fee price changed

it is currently $30k, a small increase

MaxPower wrote:
88sins wrote:
alfa wrote:The process has been speeded up for business owners but unfortunately for average Joes as you say it doesn't make much of a difference. Once you apply the police actually perform their part by doing the requisite background checks but when your file goes back to admin it's where it stops

not even for business owners.
but then again, it depends on how you define "speeded up"

going forward the word is sped btw


Ok got it, so same ole nothing has changed.


Lol

30k is not guaranteed eh

The “processing fee” just bypasses the pile with the other thousands of applicants to go in another pile.

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby Ripe Chenette » February 10th, 2021, 5:22 pm

Jess now you go get jail for fighting off an attacker

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby matr1x » February 10th, 2021, 5:43 pm

Clarence dumb as fk

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby De Dragon » February 10th, 2021, 6:10 pm

matr1x wrote:Clarence dumb as fk

That's why he fits right in with the rest of the LFDRFD PNM Cabinet. They're all dotish to a man

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby zoom rader » February 10th, 2021, 6:38 pm

De Dragon wrote:
matr1x wrote:Clarence dumb as fk

That's why he fits right in with the rest of the LFDRFD PNM Cabinet. They're all dotish to a man
Don't worry Habit7 & Redman will defend the jack arse

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby hustla_ambition101 » February 11th, 2021, 12:42 am

pugboy wrote:the processing fee price changed

it is currently $30k, a small increase

MaxPower wrote:
88sins wrote:
alfa wrote:The process has been speeded up for business owners but unfortunately for average Joes as you say it doesn't make much of a difference. Once you apply the police actually perform their part by doing the requisite background checks but when your file goes back to admin it's where it stops

not even for business owners.
but then again, it depends on how you define "speeded up"

going forward the word is sped btw


Ok got it, so same ole nothing has changed.
Actually it reaching up to 60k.....

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Re: we may not be allowed pepper spray due to dangerous nature

Postby pugboy » February 11th, 2021, 7:31 am

check the chinee dealer in south, much less than $60k

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