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Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

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Do you agree with keeping our borders closed?

Yes! to everyone including citizens, keep covid-19 out!
14
27%
Yes to foreigners, but citizens can return and stay quarantined for 14 days
25
48%
No we can safely open borders to everyone by adopting similar measures the rest of the Caribbean (world) is taking
13
25%
 
Total votes: 52

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Devourment
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Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Devourment » January 14th, 2021, 5:31 pm

Screenshot 2021-01-14 at 4.55.11 pm.png


According to our MoH we have roughly 1000 state quarantine facilities. Now I understand the need to keep those facilities available for local patients, but we clearly have space and have always had space for most of the time to quarantine patients.

Screenshot 2021-01-14 at 4.58.32 pm.png


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travel_re ... 9_pandemic

A cursory glance the Wikipedia page tracking border closures show basically NOT A SINGLE country in the world has closed borders to citizens for this period for time. Ecadudor did for 2 weeks, Austraila did it for brief periods as well.


Border closures are affecting many, including many Trinis still stranded abroad!

I have many friends affected the border closures in many ways such as:

1. My elderly uncle's 2 (90 years old) kids who live in Canada and France cannot return home to see him.
2. A friend who got diagnosed of cancer needs badly to go for treatment in the US, but she cannot afford to stay very long and may not get permission to even return. It's quite a predicament that she's battling constantly.
3. A friend who went on vacation and a short course to the US in January had his visa canceled (after 2 extensions), savings exhausted after begging for months to come home.
4. My friend's 94-year-old grandmother (a trini citizen but only recently moved to NY to stay with her daughter) wants so badly to come back as she's home sick and separated from her other children.
5. My friends mom who goes to Texas to stay 6 months at a time to see about her grandkids cannot return home and is also in danger of losing her US visa as she's overstayed her time by almost 7 months now.

While this is a poll, there is absolutely no need to keep our borders closed to citizens. We have the available facilities to keep them for a month if needed.

Guyana has very similar numbers to us (albeit slightly worse) and their borders have been fully open since Oct 12th, to everyone.

What is this government's fear? Do they realize it's normal for viruses to mutate all the time? Are we keeping borders closed because of the existence of mutations? Then they'll never reopen if that's the case.

Is it that they do not trust their own quarantine facilities? Facilities fully under their control? Are they saying trinis are incompetent?

Are we waiting for a vaccine? Then layout a vaccination plan to reaches the majority asap!

I don't understand it, I am trying hard to but it boggles my mind.

We cannot continue to live in this ignorant and physical silo.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby paid_influencer » January 14th, 2021, 6:07 pm

lemme say this - we is a small island and it is extremely easy for our health care facilities to become overwhelmed in the way Europe was in March and happening again because of the new strain. The PNM, for all their faults, has put the health of those on the island first and rightly so.

I went through your list and see no reason for an exemption. These things tug at the heart strings, but the travel they want can bring the new strain here and collapse our healthcare and kill people. At some point better sense has to prevail.

We have things coming on the horizon - vaccines, therapeutics - that won't remove the virus but at least make it manageable. Maybe we can wait a few more months for most of the doctors and nurses to be vaccinated at least - before going down that path.

What I would like to see immediately is more transparency on who gets border exemptions and the criteria. At least some reporting on a publicly accessible database with name, address, arrival date, and when they applied. Maybe even GPS tracking as one member suggested (and he was following this from the start). Yes, privacy is important, but not when it is a matter of health in the midst of a pandemic.
Last edited by paid_influencer on January 14th, 2021, 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby teems1 » January 14th, 2021, 6:11 pm

You have to look at the likely outcomes.

It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.

It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.

400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.

Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.

I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Dohplaydat » January 14th, 2021, 6:31 pm

teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.

It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.

It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.

400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.

Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.

I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.


I honestly don't think they want too, but your last point is correct, piss poor management is the likely reason, which represents the admission of failure.

Just throwing this out there....what is the criteria for opening borders?

The new strains of Covid will become the most dominant, and there are always dangers of it mutating further.

Can we simply not try to get our quarantine procedure and facilities right?

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby MaxPower » January 14th, 2021, 7:44 pm

Friends,

Whether borders are open or closed,

Locked down or not,

PNM or UNC,

Trini or Vene,


Responsibility is the determining factor.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Devourment » January 14th, 2021, 10:13 pm

paid_influencer wrote:lemme say this - we is a small island and it is extremely easy for our health care facilities to become overwhelmed in the way Europe was in March and happening again because of the new strain. The PNM, for all their faults, has put the health of those on the island first and rightly so.

I went through your list and see no reason for an exemption. These things tug at the heart strings, but the travel they want can bring the new strain here and collapse our healthcare and kill people. At some point better sense has to prevail.

We have things coming on the horizon - vaccines, therapeutics - that won't remove the virus but at least make it manageable. Maybe we can wait a few more months for most of the doctors and nurses to be vaccinated at least - before going down that path.

What I would like to see immediately is more transparency on who gets border exemptions and the criteria. At least some reporting on a publicly accessible database with name, address, arrival date, and when they applied. Maybe even GPS tracking as one member suggested (and he was following this from the start). Yes, privacy is important, but not when it is a matter of health in the midst of a pandemic.


Being a small island has nothing to do it. We are small, many small countries are dealing with covid in a more humane way.

Look at Barbados, they are the very definition of balancing both and despite them being significantly poorer than us they are managing this crisis quite well.

With every mitigation factor, there is fallout, our government has chosen to maximize fallout from lockdowns and restrictions while being afraid of any covid-19 fallout.

That ideology sufficed until we had our own spiral in Aug/Sept.

The cat is now out of the bag. By some luck, we are still maintaining low numbers right now. Why not bring home those stranded and begin to adjust to a new normal. We had the opportunity for the last 2-3 months to do so, but we will wait again for another spike and then say 'hard luck, why allyuh leave in the first place?'

This attitude where covid takes priority over everything else is ludicrous and not based on science. It's based on fear and 'looking' good.

It seems that someone's panties got into a twist when they were no longer 'Oxford's number 1'.

I see absolutely no reason we cannot maintain some semblance of open borders to Trinis while enforcing state quarantines for 14 days on arrival.

Shutting out thousands of citizens in a pandemic for over a year is the epitome of inhumane governance. It's not proper data-drivin crisis management.

It's simple passing the buck and leaving our citizens to be someone else's problem.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Devourment » January 14th, 2021, 10:14 pm

MaxPower wrote:Friends,

Whether borders are open or closed,

Locked down or not,

PNM or UNC,

Trini or Vene,


Responsibility is the determining factor.


You are avoiding the issue Max, the two aren't mutually exclusive here.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Devourment » January 14th, 2021, 10:18 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:
teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.

It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.

It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.

400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.

Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.

I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.


I honestly don't think they want too, but your last point is correct, piss poor management is the likely reason, which represents the admission of failure.

Just throwing this out there....what is the criteria for opening borders?

The new strains of Covid will become the most dominant, and there are always dangers of it mutating further.

Can we simply not try to get our quarantine procedure and facilities right?


Taiwan is a great example of managing covid well. They have 24 Million people and had open but controlled borders since the start of the pandemic. They have 800 cases, how much do we have again with our strict measures? 7000+

Only now in light of the new strain, they have enforced the strictest control which is closed borders to foreigners and non- residents. Citizens and residents are allowed entry.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Devourment » January 14th, 2021, 10:20 pm

teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.

It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.

It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.

400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.

Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.

I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.


And why does a 14 quarantine not solve the issue? What are we waiting for? Covid isn't going to disappear overnight, in a matter of months the new strain will be everywhere.....what is the point of reverting strategies?

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby teems1 » January 14th, 2021, 10:24 pm

Because Trinis are slack and won't self quarantine.

They will be out and about and spread to the population.

We have to mitigate as long as possible. Once the first set of vaccinations have gone through then we could look into it.
Devourment wrote:
teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.

It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.

It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.

400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.

Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.

I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.


And why does a 14 quarantine not solve the issue? What are we waiting for? Covid isn't going to disappear overnight, in a matter of months the new strain will be everywhere.....what is the point of reverting strategies?

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Devourment » January 14th, 2021, 10:32 pm

teems1 wrote:Because Trinis are slack and won't self quarantine.

They will be out and about and spread to the population.

We have to mitigate as long as possible. Once the first set of vaccinations have gone through then we could look into it.
Devourment wrote:
teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.

It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.

It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.

400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.

Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.

I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.


And why does a 14 quarantine not solve the issue? What are we waiting for? Covid isn't going to disappear overnight, in a matter of months the new strain will be everywhere.....what is the point of reverting strategies?


When will we reach a certain level of vaccination that allows for this? Us vaccinating half the population by end of the year is optimistic given PNM's and MoH's ineptitude.

--

Forced state quarantine should be in effect for 14 days if you want to be 99% sure they don't have it upon leaving.

Travel requirements should be simply this:

1. Negative PCR 72 hours before travel
2. Move to state quarantine where you are isolated. Food and drink will be dropped to your room, you are not leaving to mingle with others.
3. During the bus ride to quarantine, all persons should be masked up and the bus filled to 50% capacity.
4. Tested again after 7 days, if any are positive they need to be monitored and moved to another facility for longer stay and medical care.
5. Administer a 2nd PCR test on day 12 and 13, if both are negative at day 14 you are clear.


This is possibly the strictest approach you can adopt at the borders.

It will cost money yes, but hotels are suffering immensely.

Tobago tourism might never bounce back yet they spending 1B on an unnecessary airport.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby MaxPower » January 14th, 2021, 10:41 pm

Devourment wrote:
MaxPower wrote:Friends,

Whether borders are open or closed,

Locked down or not,

PNM or UNC,

Trini or Vene,


Responsibility is the determining factor.


You are avoiding the issue Max, the two aren't mutually exclusive here.


Hello Devourment,

My apologies.

Ok i would say open up the borders and let our citizens in.

CAL has aircraft and crew on standby and one plane can hold about 150.

This can easily be managed.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby timelapse » January 15th, 2021, 7:45 am

I say let our citizens back in.Some are out there suffering,health issues, people depending on them here etc. Border lockdown is a sham anyways, as illegals are coming in by the boatload daily. Let our legal citizens come home.Now I not referring to the dual citizens who have a life abroad.They can afford to stay where they are. My dad waiting to come home since the beginning of Covid,the time frame given was not enough to reach home in time before the borders closed.Flights from the US were already booked up and he is in Mexico.If he left , he would have been stranded in the US as well.We can talk in ideals all we want.Unless you have somebody outside that needs to come home, you do not know the kind of mental distress it causes.My dad contracted Covid out there.Imagine the nightmare if he had died there. Who feels it knows

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Ben_spanna » January 15th, 2021, 8:18 am

Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.

For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby MaxPower » January 15th, 2021, 8:35 am

Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.

For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.


Hello Ben,

You continue to speak from the heart and ask all the right questions with the right suggestions.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby timelapse » January 15th, 2021, 8:49 am

Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.

For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.


Do you think the illegals that coming through the back door every day quarantining? They roaming about.Not everybody is 'the typical trini' that you speak about.If you were outside and had a family that depending on you, what would you do?You anticipated that you had to work abroad for 6 months and ended up staying a a year. Your family depending on you for money.What do you do, tell them to borrow?

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Dizzy28 » January 15th, 2021, 9:04 am

teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.

It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.

It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.

400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.

Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.

I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.


Source for that 400k in TT passport holders living abroad? That basically 25% of what the island population is.

Edit- Never Mind. I see the UN had our migrant stock in 2017 at 374k with 252k in the US and 78k in Canada.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby VexXx Dogg » January 15th, 2021, 9:24 am

I think the current arrangement is preventing an exponential explosion of cases.

Remember, it's not "CLOSED", citizens are coming home, they just have to apply so that it can be managed.
Maybe we can increase the flow, but make sure that the 72 hour test is done before even allowing them on the plane home. Not sure if this is a stipulation across the board.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Penguin » January 15th, 2021, 9:29 am

Dizzy28 wrote:
teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.

It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.

It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.

400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.

Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.

I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.


Source for that 400k in TT passport holders living abroad? That basically 25% of what the island population is.

Edit- Never Mind. I see the UN had our migrant stock in 2017 at 374k with 252k in the US and 78k in Canada.


I have dozens of those 'trinis' in my family. They left during the 80s. Not a single one is begging to come back. To actually think even 5% want to come back immediately is ludicrous.

The trinis trapped abroad right now are the ones who genuinely live both places (like grandparents helping their kids), have work visas, students studying abroad and those who genuinely went for a vacation and are still there (my close friend is one, he went in December to stay 3 months with his Canadian fiancé and is now trapped there still).

Bring our citizens home, to keep so much out while Cudjoe, Rowley's daughter and Faris son can fly in and out as they please is a national disgrace!

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Ben_spanna » January 15th, 2021, 9:29 am

timelapse wrote:
Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.

For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.


Do you think the illegals that coming through the back door every day quarantining? They roaming about.Not everybody is 'the typical trini' that you speak about.If you were outside and had a family that depending on you, what would you do?You anticipated that you had to work abroad for 6 months and ended up staying a a year. Your family depending on you for money.What do you do, tell them to borrow?


You realize that the issue of legally who can enter through the borders for returning residents and the issue of ILLEGAL immigrants are 2 completely separate issues.... people are quick to point out the Venez arriving with this and that, and that their family cant get home , but they fail to realize its 2 separate issues with different agencies having to enforce different places ...

The immigrants that are coming through the back door is a lack of the Enforcement by the Min of Nat Security AND the lack of proper patrols along our nations coasts..... the issue with returning residents rests in the hands of one man to grant an exemption but its legal landing through ONE airport...

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Ben_spanna » January 15th, 2021, 9:30 am

Penguin wrote:
Dizzy28 wrote:
teems1 wrote:You have to look at the likely outcomes.

It's not like if we open our borders, thousands from New Zealand or Vietnam (who have it under control) will be coming home.

It will mostly be people from the US, who will be flying back.

400k holders of TT passports live abroad, with 250k in the US, and 150k in NYC area.

Yesterday the US had 230k new cases. Today they are on track for another 200k.

I'm sure Trinidad wants to open the borders, but their piss poor management of it in has caused the GoRTT to make these hard decisions.


Source for that 400k in TT passport holders living abroad? That basically 25% of what the island population is.

Edit- Never Mind. I see the UN had our migrant stock in 2017 at 374k with 252k in the US and 78k in Canada.


I have dozens of those 'trinis' in my family. They left during the 80s. Not a single one is begging to come back. To actually think even 5% want to come back immediately is ludicrous.

The trinis trapped abroad right now are the ones who genuinely live both places (like grandparents helping their kids), have work visas, students studying abroad and those who genuinely went for a vacation and are still there (my close friend is one, he went in December to stay 3 months with his Canadian fiancé and is now trapped there still).

Bring our citizens home, to keep so much out while Cudjoe, Rowley's daughter and Faris son can fly in and out as they please is a national disgrace!



And dont forget the mans dog.............

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby goalpost » January 15th, 2021, 10:48 am

Bring back our citizens. Open the borders for them accordingly. Foreigners need to stay out for now.

This bullsheit about Trinis being lackadaisical is such a small percentage of the population, yet the Govt using them to determine policies. Every country has a percentage of lackadaisical individuals.

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby timelapse » January 15th, 2021, 10:59 am

Ben_spanna wrote:
timelapse wrote:
Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.

For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.


Do you think the illegals that coming through the back door every day quarantining? They roaming about.Not everybody is 'the typical trini' that you speak about.If you were outside and had a family that depending on you, what would you do?You anticipated that you had to work abroad for 6 months and ended up staying a a year. Your family depending on you for money.What do you do, tell them to borrow?


You realize that the issue of legally who can enter through the borders for returning residents and the issue of ILLEGAL immigrants are 2 completely separate issues.... people are quick to point out the Venez arriving with this and that, and that their family cant get home , but they fail to realize its 2 separate issues with different agencies having to enforce different places ...

The immigrants that are coming through the back door is a lack of the Enforcement by the Min of Nat Security AND the lack of proper patrols along our nations coasts..... the issue with returning residents rests in the hands of one man to grant an exemption but its legal landing through ONE airport...

Are we quarantining illegals?
Therefore there is a potentially larger threat from undocumented entry into the country.So it is related .
The entry of illegals rests in the hands of the same man or did you not realize that. We are enforcing strict laws on law abiding citizens, while the illegal element is having a good laugh and doing what they want. Sounds like how our police service works too ent? Which coincidentally rests in the same man's hands ultimately as well. The Minister of National Security for those who don't know. Call me whatever, but I don't think its fair that our citizens out there stranded, some suffering, while our borders are very open to illegals and some of us encouraging them.Do you have any family outside that can't come home?

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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby teems1 » January 15th, 2021, 11:28 am

timelapse wrote:
Ben_spanna wrote:
timelapse wrote:
Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.

For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.


Do you think the illegals that coming through the back door every day quarantining? They roaming about.Not everybody is 'the typical trini' that you speak about.If you were outside and had a family that depending on you, what would you do?You anticipated that you had to work abroad for 6 months and ended up staying a a year. Your family depending on you for money.What do you do, tell them to borrow?


You realize that the issue of legally who can enter through the borders for returning residents and the issue of ILLEGAL immigrants are 2 completely separate issues.... people are quick to point out the Venez arriving with this and that, and that their family cant get home , but they fail to realize its 2 separate issues with different agencies having to enforce different places ...

The immigrants that are coming through the back door is a lack of the Enforcement by the Min of Nat Security AND the lack of proper patrols along our nations coasts..... the issue with returning residents rests in the hands of one man to grant an exemption but its legal landing through ONE airport...

Are we quarantining illegals?
Therefore there is a potentially larger threat from undocumented entry into the country.So it is related .
The entry of illegals rests in the hands of the same man or did you not realize that. We are enforcing strict laws on law abiding citizens, while the illegal element is having a good laugh and doing what they want. Sounds like how our police service works too ent? Which coincidentally rests in the same man's hands ultimately as well. The Minister of National Security for those who don't know. Call me whatever, but I don't think its fair that our citizens out there stranded, some suffering, while our borders are very open to illegals and some of us encouraging them.Do you have any family outside that can't come home?


How rampant is Covid in Venezuela? Especially among the poorer socioeconomic segment who find themselves in Trinidad since the better off ones go Florida, Houston, Spain etc.

100 boatloads could come across with fewer cases than 1 flight from NYC.

timelapse
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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby timelapse » January 15th, 2021, 11:34 am

teems1 wrote:
timelapse wrote:
Ben_spanna wrote:
timelapse wrote:
Ben_spanna wrote:Do you all Honestly think the typical Trini has the discipline to self quarantine when they HAVE to? Do you really think they stay home and not intermingle?
Im all for citizens who LIVE here and got trapped to come home- but must State quarantine for 3 weeks at their expense.

For all those " citizens" who have been living abroad for the past 5-10 years and more and simply want to Run home because the pandemic is so bad there- stay the hell there, wherever you are has been better for you for so long, then call there home and stay right there, we dont want you to come back.


Do you think the illegals that coming through the back door every day quarantining? They roaming about.Not everybody is 'the typical trini' that you speak about.If you were outside and had a family that depending on you, what would you do?You anticipated that you had to work abroad for 6 months and ended up staying a a year. Your family depending on you for money.What do you do, tell them to borrow?


You realize that the issue of legally who can enter through the borders for returning residents and the issue of ILLEGAL immigrants are 2 completely separate issues.... people are quick to point out the Venez arriving with this and that, and that their family cant get home , but they fail to realize its 2 separate issues with different agencies having to enforce different places ...

The immigrants that are coming through the back door is a lack of the Enforcement by the Min of Nat Security AND the lack of proper patrols along our nations coasts..... the issue with returning residents rests in the hands of one man to grant an exemption but its legal landing through ONE airport...

Are we quarantining illegals?
Therefore there is a potentially larger threat from undocumented entry into the country.So it is related .
The entry of illegals rests in the hands of the same man or did you not realize that. We are enforcing strict laws on law abiding citizens, while the illegal element is having a good laugh and doing what they want. Sounds like how our police service works too ent? Which coincidentally rests in the same man's hands ultimately as well. The Minister of National Security for those who don't know. Call me whatever, but I don't think its fair that our citizens out there stranded, some suffering, while our borders are very open to illegals and some of us encouraging them.Do you have any family outside that can't come home?


How rampant is Covid in Venezuela? Especially among the poorer socioeconomic segment who find themselves in Trinidad since the better off ones go Florida, Houston, Spain etc.

100 boatloads could come across with fewer cases than 1 flight from NYC.

Venezuela's government censors its media.That being said,
officially as of today,
Venezuela
Coronavirus Cases:
118,415
Deaths:
1,090
Recovered:
111,999
Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... venezuela/
Also , the one flight from NYC contains less people that going to be hoeing around the place and shaking their ras in Tyrico. Watch those videos very closely, actually you dont even need to watch that closely

redmanjp
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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby redmanjp » January 15th, 2021, 1:37 pm

we can't just fling the borders wide open, not even for the 400k passport holders. (do the other islands have that many of it's citizens outside?) residents whose address was trinidad/tobago as of march 2020 alone. but they should increase state supervised quarantine to all hotels- kill 2 bird with 1 stone- bring back more nationals, while bringing in much needed revenue to the hotels- aren't the hotels empty right now except for the ones being used for quarantine?

also another option would be for some to agree to be fitted with gps trackers at home as a condition to come back, in addition to the pcr test. whatever we do we need to be very careful, especially with those new variants quickly spreading worldwide. there shouldn't be any home quarantine without some type of 24/7 monitoring & immediate arrest and placement in state quarantine of any person who breaches it

elec2020
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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby elec2020 » January 15th, 2021, 1:48 pm

my view may be contentious but the people who still out there only have themselves to blame. from as early as january places in china were locking down borders. then in february other countries were doing so. and despite that trend you decide to travel? you decided it was ok to take that risk ain't? so why u begging to come back. you took the gamble. now for cases where the travel was for health reasons i sympathize with them as well as foreign students/workers. but i still believe that when u start seeing countries left, right and center locking down the place you shoulda look to get your tail back here asap. but nah i forget, God is a trini.

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Dizzy28
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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby Dizzy28 » January 15th, 2021, 1:52 pm

elec2020 wrote:my view may be contentious but the people who still out there only have themselves to blame. from as early as january places in china were locking down borders. then in february other countries were doing so. and despite that trend you decide to travel? you decided it was ok to take that risk ain't? so why u begging to come back. you took the gamble. now for cases where the travel was for health reasons i sympathize with them as well as foreign students/workers. but i still believe that when u start seeing countries left, right and center locking down the place you shoulda look to get your tail back here asap. but nah i forget, God is a trini.


Yea its not as if the GORTT portrayed a totally different picture. Running a Carnival where we welcomed thousands of foreigners etc in late February.
But John Public supposed to have foresight beyond that of the Government and have not traveled in Jan and Feb.

Only Ppl who left here in March I would have no sympathy for.

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MaxPower
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Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby MaxPower » January 15th, 2021, 2:00 pm

timelapse wrote:I say let our citizens back in.Some are out there suffering,health issues, people depending on them here etc. Border lockdown is a sham anyways, as illegals are coming in by the boatload daily. Let our legal citizens come home.Now I not referring to the dual citizens who have a life abroad.They can afford to stay where they are. My dad waiting to come home since the beginning of Covid,the time frame given was not enough to reach home in time before the borders closed.Flights from the US were already booked up and he is in Mexico.If he left , he would have been stranded in the US as well.We can talk in ideals all we want.Unless you have somebody outside that needs to come home, you do not know the kind of mental distress it causes.My dad contracted Covid out there.Imagine the nightmare if he had died there. Who feels it knows


Hello timelapse,

Hope the new year is treating you well and that you continue to be in good health and faith.

I think you are misguided in saying that illegals are entering by the “boatload” daily. We have been hearing this rumor for quite some time by the “hundreds” and that would mean we have a few hundred thousand Venezuelans here which is not the case. Illegal entry exists but it is not as rampant as you and your countrymen assume. Trust in our border patrols.

I agree that we should let our citizens in, but we must be extremely strict with the process. The Govt is fully aware that Trinis are irresponsible and inconsiderate as they have uncontrollable reports of blatant and outright breeches of quarantines, which is the MAIN reason for community spread, thus the hesitation to open the borders.

The solution my good man rests in the hands of you Trinis. We must show our Govt that we are willing to work together and start reducing the cases and deaths. Trinis cannot continue to do as the please, how and when they please, blame each and everyone and expect things to work in their favor.

Get responsible and get serious T&T.


You may not agree with anything i say and i understand that. However, I will say a prayer for your Dad as i kneel down with with arms open to the big man above begging him to return him home safely.

elec2020
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Re: Covid-19 and T&T's continued border closure - Do you agree?

Postby elec2020 » January 15th, 2021, 2:25 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:
elec2020 wrote:my view may be contentious but the people who still out there only have themselves to blame. from as early as january places in china were locking down borders. then in february other countries were doing so. and despite that trend you decide to travel? you decided it was ok to take that risk ain't? so why u begging to come back. you took the gamble. now for cases where the travel was for health reasons i sympathize with them as well as foreign students/workers. but i still believe that when u start seeing countries left, right and center locking down the place you shoulda look to get your tail back here asap. but nah i forget, God is a trini.


Yea its not as if the GORTT portrayed a totally different picture. Running a Carnival where we welcomed thousands of foreigners etc in late February.
But John Public supposed to have foresight beyond that of the Government and have not traveled in Jan and Feb.

Only Ppl who left here in March I would have no sympathy for.


governments are always unwise. you as a citizen have to use your intelligence and make sense out from nonsense. the carnival should not have been kept but anyway, the travelling for carnival meant that if it wasn't in trinidad before then it most certainly was here now. so now more than ever lockdowns will come soon after. people still travelled. for me its because trinis all have that same stupid way of thinking. that we immune from whatever everyone else going through. covid only applies to the rest of the world. not tnt

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