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Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

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Covid vaccine when will you take it?

Immediately as it becomes available
24
30%
I'll wait to see how it goes.
43
54%
Never
6
8%
Covid is a hoax
6
8%
 
Total votes: 79

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby adnj » November 21st, 2020, 11:27 pm

88sins wrote:
hover11 wrote:Employers can for those that are non unionized however if unionized that will be huge challenge I foresee great struggle for the entire public service to take such
adnj wrote:
redmanjp wrote:I doh think the Govt can make it mandatory for anyone to get stick with a needle just like they can't force u to get tested or treated for covid (they CAN quarantine you though under the Quarantine Act) . But for certain things like traveling on a flight or enrolling children in schools they can do that, they already require that for schools and covid being under the Quarantine schedule as a dangerous infectious disease would certainly qualify for that
Employers can currently require vaccinations, educational levels, drug testing, no carrying of weapons, restriction of use of profanity, dress codes, and clean criminal backgrounds as conditions of continuing employment or even presence on grounds.

The restrictions fall under the auspices of at will employment.

You can be restricted from a retailer's premises, airline or other common carrier, hotel, resort, theater, restaurant, or casino, also.

You can opt out of taking a vaccine - just stay at home and it will not matter.

To my understanding, not even in a non unionized workplace can an employer insist that staff get vaccinated or face dismissal.
Contrary to popular belief, it's beyond the scope of an employer's authority to demand that current employees take a vaccine in order to remain employed or that refusal of such can be grounds for lawful dismissal. An employer has authority over what you may or may not be allowed to do on their premises, but has zero authority over how you treat your body and what you put in it.
Look at it like this
You work at a company, and there is a common cold going around. Your employer says "everyone must take a tylenol cold and flu tablet in front of management when they arrive, ño exceptions, whether they have symptoms or not"
Who is your employer to mandate that you MUST do that or get fired, to take medication for a condition that you may not get?
1. A unionized workforce is not at-will employment.

2. In T&T, the employer is bound by law (OSHA) to provide a safe workplace which includes providing proper equipment and mitigating personal safety risks in the work place. Legality, culpability and implementation of new vaccination requirements are currently being reviewed by some companies.

"The Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) Act of Trinidad and Tobago (2004), as amended, charges local enterprises with the duty to protect the safety, health, and welfare of employees and others who may be affected by company operations."

You only need to look back at case law regarding deadly highly contagious diseases such as typhus and small pox for precedent.

The question here is how deadly is Covid 19 or the common cold.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby mragoobir » November 22nd, 2020, 12:24 am

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby The_Honourable » November 22nd, 2020, 12:29 am

I'm not an anti-vaxxer but i'm with sins and others... let the guinea pigs go first.

Over time, side effects would be documented where the vaccine by the respective companies are improved on. I'll give it a year or two, then i'll take it. I'll wash my hands and wear a mask for now.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby 88sins » November 22nd, 2020, 1:02 am

adnj wrote:1. A unionized workforce is not at-will employment.

2. In T&T, the employer is bound by law (OSHA) to provide a safe workplace which includes providing proper equipment and mitigating personal safety risks in the work place. Legality, culpability and implementation of new vaccination requirements are currently being reviewed by some companies.

"The Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) Act of Trinidad and Tobago (2004), as amended, charges local enterprises with the duty to protect the safety, health, and welfare of employees and others who may be affected by company operations."

You only need to look back at case law regarding deadly highly contagious diseases such as typhus and small pox for precedent.

The question here is how deadly is Covid 19 or the common cold.

1. a non unionized workforce isn't at will employment either, at least not here in T&T.
The true concept of at will employment doesn't really apply in T&T, considering that employers can't simply dismiss established permanent workers at will without any other justification other than the employer decided to fire said employee for whatever reason they see fit, like they can in certain US states. They need to follow the proper procedures to do so, and where grounds and/or proper procedure are not available/followed, they must pay severance to the dismissed worker.

2. OSHA mandating employers provide a safe work environment is all well & good, but OSHA does NOT trump the individuals right and freedom to treat their own body as they may see fit.
Further, to say "worker MUST let this dude in a white coat inject him with something he doesn't want cause OSHA say employers must provide a safe work environment" is the one way to say "employer looking for the easiest way to appear OSHA compliant & don't give a 5th of a flying fack about what the employee want or his rights as an individual", and it places the burden of OSHA compliance entirely upon the shoulders of the individual employee who wishes to safeguard themselves as best they see fit and don't have a problem taking other precautions (mask wearing, hand washing & station sanitization, ioslated work areas, etc) to keep other workers safe. It also gives some unscrupulous employers ammunition to dismiss otherwise trustworthy and responsible workers. But that's a whole other issue.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby Dizzy28 » November 22nd, 2020, 1:11 am

Daran want everybody to vaccinate so he could palance and blow conch shell for two days on a stage that not good again??

And he calls everyone else selfish!!!

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby adnj » November 22nd, 2020, 6:04 am

88sins wrote:
adnj wrote:1. A unionized workforce is not at-will employment.

2. In T&T, the employer is bound by law (OSHA) to provide a safe workplace which includes providing proper equipment and mitigating personal safety risks in the work place. Legality, culpability and implementation of new vaccination requirements are currently being reviewed by some companies.

"The Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) Act of Trinidad and Tobago (2004), as amended, charges local enterprises with the duty to protect the safety, health, and welfare of employees and others who may be affected by company operations."

You only need to look back at case law regarding deadly highly contagious diseases such as typhus and small pox for precedent.

The question here is how deadly is Covid 19 or the common cold.

1. a non unionized workforce isn't at will employment either, at least not here in T&T.
The true concept of at will employment doesn't really apply in T&T, considering that employers can't simply dismiss established permanent workers at will without any other justification other than the employer decided to fire said employee for whatever reason they see fit, like they can in certain US states. They need to follow the proper procedures to do so, and where grounds and/or proper procedure are not available/followed, they must pay severance to the dismissed worker.

2. OSHA mandating employers provide a safe work environment is all well & good, but OSHA does NOT trump the individuals right and freedom to treat their own body as they may see fit.
Further, to say "worker MUST let this dude in a white coat inject him with something he doesn't want cause OSHA say employers must provide a safe work environment" is the one way to say "employer looking for the easiest way to appear OSHA compliant & don't give a 5th of a flying fack about what the employee want or his rights as an individual", and it places the burden of OSHA compliance entirely upon the shoulders of the individual employee who wishes to safeguard themselves as best they see fit and don't have a problem taking other precautions (mask wearing, hand washing & station sanitization, ioslated work areas, etc) to keep other workers safe. It also gives some unscrupulous employers ammunition to dismiss otherwise trustworthy and responsible workers. But that's a whole other issue.
Interesting - but not actual.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby 88sins » November 22nd, 2020, 7:04 am

adnj wrote:Interesting - but not actual.

As actual as saying the employee will get get COVID-19 so he must have a foreign substance injected into his body that he doesn't want.

Fact of the matter is, as a sane, rational, law abiding adult, you and you alone are in charge of your body and your life. So only you can decide what goes into it. Tobacco, alcohol, narcotics, food, air, or anything else.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby RedVEVO » November 22nd, 2020, 7:48 am

adnj wrote:
88sins wrote:
hover11 wrote:Employers can for those that are non unionized however if unionized that will be huge challenge I foresee great struggle for the entire public service to take such
adnj wrote:
redmanjp wrote:I doh think the Govt can make it mandatory for anyone to get stick with a needle just like they can't force u to get tested or treated for covid (they CAN quarantine you though under the Quarantine Act) . But for certain things like traveling on a flight or enrolling children in schools they can do that, they already require that for schools and covid being under the Quarantine schedule as a dangerous infectious disease would certainly qualify for that
Employers can currently require vaccinations, educational levels, drug testing, no carrying of weapons, restriction of use of profanity, dress codes, and clean criminal backgrounds as conditions of continuing employment or even presence on grounds.

The restrictions fall under the auspices of at will employment.

You can be restricted from a retailer's premises, airline or other common carrier, hotel, resort, theater, restaurant, or casino, also.

You can opt out of taking a vaccine - just stay at home and it will not matter.

To my understanding, not even in a non unionized workplace can an employer insist that staff get vaccinated or face dismissal.
Contrary to popular belief, it's beyond the scope of an employer's authority to demand that current employees take a vaccine in order to remain employed or that refusal of such can be grounds for lawful dismissal. An employer has authority over what you may or may not be allowed to do on their premises, but has zero authority over how you treat your body and what you put in it.
Look at it like this
You work at a company, and there is a common cold going around. Your employer says "everyone must take a tylenol cold and flu tablet in front of management when they arrive, ño exceptions, whether they have symptoms or not"
Who is your employer to mandate that you MUST do that or get fired, to take medication for a condition that you may not get?
1. A unionized workforce is not at-will employment.

2. In T&T, the employer is bound by law (OSHA) to provide a safe workplace which includes providing proper equipment and mitigating personal safety risks in the work place. Legality, culpability and implementation of new vaccination requirements are currently being reviewed by some companies.

"The Occupational Safety and Health (OSH) Act of Trinidad and Tobago (2004), as amended, charges local enterprises with the duty to protect the safety, health, and welfare of employees and others who may be affected by company operations."

You only need to look back at case law regarding deadly highly contagious diseases such as typhus and small pox for precedent.

The question here is how deadly is Covid 19 or the common cold.


:D

We not in China or Tasmania :roll:

What case Law ? :roll:

Nobody forcing anybody in T&T and OSH for COVID is hilarious :roll:

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 10:15 am

Dizzy28 wrote:Daran want everybody to vaccinate so he could palance and blow conch shell for two days on a stage that not good again??

And he calls everyone else selfish!!!


This exactly. Man so thusty to palance he willing to take a vaccine that alters part of your DNA and where the long term ramifications are unknown. And he wanna guilt men into joining his side. Bout being socially responsible and jailing people who spread covid because they don't have the vaccine. I wonder who he feel compensating men if they get cancer because of this rushed vaccine. Because from all i read these companies will not be liable to any adverse effects u get. So me i not taking no vaccine. Let the pro vaxxers jump up and get it. I will see what going on with them over the next 3 years and then move to suit

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby hover11 » November 22nd, 2020, 10:21 am

I say let the zessers who want to party and have they carnival take their vaccines , let them take the vaccine, I will monitor them, since they so tusty for party they get to die enjoying what they do.For a country full of certified ppl we still have too many uneducated fools among us.
elec2020 wrote:
Dizzy28 wrote:Daran want everybody to vaccinate so he could palance and blow conch shell for two days on a stage that not good again??

And he calls everyone else selfish!!!


This exactly. Man so thusty to palance he willing to take a vaccine that alters part of your DNA and where the long term ramifications are unknown. And he wanna guilt men into joining his side. Bout being socially responsible and jailing people who spread covid because they don't have the vaccine. I wonder who he feel compensating men if they get cancer because of this rushed vaccine. Because from all i read these companies will not be liable to any adverse effects u get. So me i not taking no vaccine. Let the pro vaxxers jump up and get it. I will see what going on with them over the next 3 years and then move to suit

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 10:31 am

^ alot of people out here living sad lives. U telling me u struggling to stay mentally healthy because u can't go out and socialise for a few months. Thats the true motive for most pro vaxxers. The desperation to socialize again. Dohplaydat himself said it. He really wants to go back to normal. I want things to go back to normal too. But i not so desperate for that that i willing to risk my long term health. I had family members who died from cancer and different heart illnesses. Its not a pretty picture. So sorry but i will wait a 3 years. Continue to mask up. Sanitize. And limit my social interactions. Cause 3 years of no life and able to socialize for a couple decades more is better than 3 years socializing and then i end up in the morgue.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby 88sins » November 22nd, 2020, 10:39 am

elec2020 wrote:^ alot of people out here living sad lives. U telling me u struggling to stay mentally healthy because u can't go out and socialise for a few months. Thats the true motive for most pro vaxxers. The desperation to socialize again. Dohplaydat himself said it. He really wants to go back to normal. I want things to go back to normal too. But i not so desperate for that that i willing to risk my long term health. I had family members who died from cancer and different heart illnesses. Its not a pretty picture. So sorry but i will wait a 3 years. Continue to mask up. Sanitize. And limit my social interactions. Cause 3 years of no life and able to socialize for a couple decades more is better than 3 years socializing and then i end up in the morgue.


Dem doh see it so. More than half of them living with a Y.O.L.O. mindset, do all yuh want now, get all you want now.
Patience is a virtue and virtue is grace. Many don't possess any of those characteristics.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 10:51 am

^ its also because they don't love themselves. As in they don't get joy with their own company. So with the few months lockdown and social restrictions is like they living in hell. Look 100s of people was arrested for a party in kelly village earlier this morning. 100s of people. So much nationals out there living sad lives. U telling me u that thusty to socialize again that u willing to pay a heft fine and tarnish your good name. Well whatever yes. As i said before. Time will tell who stands on the rightbside of history

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby Dohplaydat » November 22nd, 2020, 12:13 pm

elec2020 wrote:^ its also because they don't love themselves. As in they don't get joy with their own company. So with the few months lockdown and social restrictions is like they living in hell. Look 100s of people was arrested for a party in kelly village earlier this morning. 100s of people. So much nationals out there living sad lives. U telling me u that thusty to socialize again that u willing to pay a heft fine and tarnish your good name. Well whatever yes. As i said before. Time will tell who stands on the rightbside of history


Y'all introverts are funny.

Not condoning what they did, but to think my only reason I want a vaccine is to party (especiially when I was saying Carnival 2021 should be cancelled) is simply just strawman and as hominem arguements that show your intellect.

To reiterate, I said, parties, bars, restaurants, gyms, cinemas....should only allow patrons who are vaccinated. That means, I won't be seeing ppl like you, but then again, elec2020 have you ever been to a party? Got a wine? Kissed a woman? Somehow I doubt it ....and that's ok, but don't hate on those that do ok bro. And somehow I doubt you have academic publications given ev your inability to to write CXC level responses.

Now back to this vaccine. mRNA vaccines do not change your DNA. They're simply peices of the Covid-19 DNA that allows our body to produce these antibodies.

The mRNA of these vaccines are the genetic material that makes the Spike glycoprotein i.e. the protein on the surface of the coronavirus that is essential for infecting human cells. This design and manufacture of the vaccine is simplified....a game changer in vaccines.

The mRNA vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna are faster to develop as they do not require companies to produce protein or weakened pathogen for the vaccine.

Now how do you prove a vaccine is safe? Phase 2 and 3 trials. Which were done in record time because of the huge number of volunteers available.

Again, I don't see why there is so much skeptism. These vaccines aren't going to change unless Covid-19 changes.

There isn't going to be a slight tweak or improvement for at least a year or 2 and that might simply be tweaks to reduce to cost or .Ake storage cheaper. Besides any tweaks require new rounds of testing which won't get done this quickly.

So again, your skeptism is unwarranted and clearly not based in science. So say what you want, you are adopting an anti-vaxx stance.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 12:22 pm

Dohplaydat this morning: "Not condoning what they did, but to think my only reason I want a vaccine is to party (especiially when I was saying Carnival 2021 should be cancelled) is simply just strawman and as hominem arguements that show your intellect."

Dohplaydat yesterday: "We need society back to normal bro, I f*cking hate the lack of human interaction, economic fallout, no parties and carnival lifestyle."

So basically you a hypocrite. I not even going to waste my time responding to the negatives you said about me bout my qualifications and if i ever wine up and/or kiss a woman. You so petty its not even funny.

Image

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby Dohplaydat » November 22nd, 2020, 12:28 pm

elec2020 wrote:Dohplaydat this morning: "Not condoning what they did, but to think my only reason I want a vaccine is to party (especiially when I was saying Carnival 2021 should be cancelled) is simply just strawman and as hominem arguements that show your intellect."

Dohplaydat yesterday: "We need society back to normal bro, I f*cking hate the lack of human interaction, economic fallout, no parties and carnival lifestyle."

So basically you a hypocrite. I not even going to waste my time responding to the negatives you said about me bout my qualifications and if i ever wine up and/or kiss a woman. You so petty its not even funny.

Image


Lol you really not too bright man....I think you need to revisit your studies of SEA English comprehension

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 12:36 pm

so basically this is what is going on in the mind of Dohplaydat after i provided proof that he is a narrow minded hypocrite

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby Dohplaydat » November 22nd, 2020, 1:08 pm

elec2020 wrote:so basically this is what is going on in the mind of Dohplaydat after i provided proof that he is a narrow minded hypocrite

Image


Comprehension isn't grammar dude...

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 1:11 pm

^ why are u still talking to me? i don't give a rats' ___ about what a hypocrite has to say

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby Penguin » November 22nd, 2020, 1:23 pm

elec2020 wrote:^ why are u still talking to me? i don't give a rats' ___ about what a hypocrite has to say


Elec I have been observing your childish retorts, you contributed absolutely nothing other than ignorance with no credible facts to back up any of your positions.

If you wanted to counter DPD, at least post studies (if there are any) that show vaccines caused long term side effects, or show how mRNA vaccines are too new to conclude they're safe (again you probably won't find any).

Other than attack the man for liking carnival when he clearly mentioned he missed it, and among many other things.

Him like many of us, want things back to normal so that education, socializing can resume and most importantly economic suffering can stop.

But no, you friad a vaccine that went through all safety trials, sigh.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 1:39 pm

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=755959&start=30

From this link you would see the supporting evidence I showed on adverse long-term effects of vaccines. As well as why we need to be careful and not just jump on the pro vaccination bandwagon. That we need to see both sides of the discussion and not just bully people who have their doubts on the vaccine. You can also see that dohplaydat was the first to be disrespectful to me

Dohplaydat: This is a myth and I'm surprised an economist would fall so easily for it.
Dohplaydat: Again for an economist you really don't understand business, which is quite sad bro.
Dohplaydat: Right.....so read that over and please please for the love of all that is holy, use your brain.
Dohplaydat: Covid has really affected this one.....better get vaccinated before I end up like this.
Dohplaydat: elec2020 have you ever been to a party? Got a wine? Kissed a woman? Somehow I doubt it

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=755959&start=60. and viewtopic.php?f=4&t=758236&start=60

So forgive me if i put him in his place and let him learn to have some damn respect for me by showing to all forum members that he is nothing but a hypocrite. A party crazed fanatic that so thusty for a little wine that he willing to encourage others to ignore any long-term risks from the covid 19 vaccine because and i quote "we need society back to normal bro, I f*cking hate the lack of human interaction, economic fallout, no parties and carnival lifestyle." If you find that I over-reacted then idk what to tell you. Its only so long as man u will allow someone to talk smack about you before you shut them up. Which i damn well did. Also, for you. Please investigate thoroughly the events behind such an escalation before u choose sides. Thats quite childish of you.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby Dohplaydat » November 22nd, 2020, 3:31 pm

elec2020 wrote:http://www.trinituner.com/v4/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=755959&start=30

From this link you would see the supporting evidence I showed on adverse long-term effects of vaccines. As well as why we need to be careful and not just jump on the pro vaccination bandwagon. That we need to see both sides of the discussion and not just bully people who have their doubts on the vaccine. You can also see that dohplaydat was the first to be disrespectful to me

Dohplaydat: This is a myth and I'm surprised an economist would fall so easily for it.
Dohplaydat: Again for an economist you really don't understand business, which is quite sad bro.
Dohplaydat: Right.....so read that over and please please for the love of all that is holy, use your brain.
Dohplaydat: Covid has really affected this one.....better get vaccinated before I end up like this.
Dohplaydat: elec2020 have you ever been to a party? Got a wine? Kissed a woman? Somehow I doubt it

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=755959&start=60. and viewtopic.php?f=4&t=758236&start=60

So forgive me if i put him in his place and let him learn to have some damn respect for me by showing to all forum members that he is nothing but a hypocrite. A party crazed fanatic that so thusty for a little wine that he willing to encourage others to ignore any long-term risks from the covid 19 vaccine because and i quote "we need society back to normal bro, I f*cking hate the lack of human interaction, economic fallout, no parties and carnival lifestyle." If you find that I over-reacted then idk what to tell you. Its only so long as man u will allow someone to talk smack about you before you shut them up. Which i damn well did. Also, for you. Please investigate thoroughly the events behind such an escalation before u choose sides. Thats quite childish of you.


Dude like you can't read? The links you put up actually show very little to no long term vaccines, especially in those made in the last 20 years.

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 3:36 pm

^ because the views of a hypocrite hold water. you were shown to be a hypocrite. u have 0 credibility in my book. so for the 100th time. stop talking to me

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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby adnj » November 22nd, 2020, 8:14 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:
elec2020 wrote:http://www.trinituner.com/v4/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=755959&start=30

From this link you would see the supporting evidence I showed on adverse long-term effects of vaccines. As well as why we need to be careful and not just jump on the pro vaccination bandwagon. That we need to see both sides of the discussion and not just bully people who have their doubts on the vaccine. You can also see that dohplaydat was the first to be disrespectful to me

Dohplaydat: This is a myth and I'm surprised an economist would fall so easily for it.
Dohplaydat: Again for an economist you really don't understand business, which is quite sad bro.
Dohplaydat: Right.....so read that over and please please for the love of all that is holy, use your brain.
Dohplaydat: Covid has really affected this one.....better get vaccinated before I end up like this.
Dohplaydat: elec2020 have you ever been to a party? Got a wine? Kissed a woman? Somehow I doubt it

http://www.trinituner.com/v4/forums/vie ... 9&start=60. and http://www.trinituner.com/v4/forums/vie ... 6&start=60

So forgive me if i put him in his place and let him learn to have some damn respect for me by showing to all forum members that he is nothing but a hypocrite. A party crazed fanatic that so thusty for a little wine that he willing to encourage others to ignore any long-term risks from the covid 19 vaccine because and i quote "we need society back to normal bro, I f*cking hate the lack of human interaction, economic fallout, no parties and carnival lifestyle." If you find that I over-reacted then idk what to tell you. Its only so long as man u will allow someone to talk smack about you before you shut them up. Which i damn well did. Also, for you. Please investigate thoroughly the events behind such an escalation before u choose sides. Thats quite childish of you.


Dude like you can't read? The links you put up actually show very little to no long term vaccines, especially in those made in the last 20 years.


With all do respect, I posted the link to that graphic in this thread. It was taken completely out of context.

The associated information is that the drug companies want vaccine recipients to know there was no reduction in the time taken or the number of test subject for any Covid-19 vaccine candidates. Though many drugs take 18 months for review, many cancer treatment drugs take three or months.

The bureaucratic approval process is being done on a faster schedule. Testing and subject observation for side effects have been unaltered.

My earlier post:
http://www.trinituner.com/v4/forums/vie ... #p10109771

elec2020
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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 8:32 pm

Adnj i was never on your case inno. Its dohplaydat i light up with his disrespectful self and twisted agenda (wanting people to take the vaccine so he could go back out and palance). I not condemning anything the pro vaccinators have to say on the vaccine. As i am not a medical scientist nor do i do any work in that area. So who knows who is right or wrong on the risks or lack there off of this vaccine. I just saying that I elec2020 am going to er on the side of caution and wait to take the vaccine when it is proven that there are no long term risks of the vaccine as as it stands it is impossible to know if there really are. And history has shown that those in power willing to shift things to suit their agenda. That is all. I wish u a good day adnj and hope u stay safe during these precarious days

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Dohplaydat
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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby Dohplaydat » November 22nd, 2020, 8:36 pm

elec2020 wrote:Adnj i was never on your case inno. Its dohplaydat i light up with his disrespectful self and twisted agenda (wanting people to take the vaccine so he could go back out and palance). I not condemning anything the pro vaccinators have to say on the vaccine. As i am not a medical scientist nor do i do any work in that area. So who knows who is right or wrong on the risks or lack there off of this vaccine. I just saying that I elec2020 am going to er on the side of caution and wait to take the vaccine when it is proven that there are no long term risks of the vaccine as as it stands it is impossible to know if there really are. And history has shown that those in power willing to shift things to suit their agenda. That is all. I wish u a good day adnj and hope u stay safe during these precarious days


Twisted agenda, lol.

You have no proof that this vaccine is dangerous elec so my issue with you is stop spreading false facts.

and in fact, if you wish to err on the side of caution the smart thing to do is take the vaccine so you won't get covid.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... %20disease.

elec2020
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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 9:12 pm

^ i am not even going to waste my time and read the ramblings of a known hypocrite. Please give it a rest dohplaydat. I no longer care for your hypocritical opinions.

Numb3r4
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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby Numb3r4 » November 22nd, 2020, 9:24 pm

https://wellcome.org/sites/default/file ... k=y0Cq0Vr2

A pre-covid chart showing vaccine development timeline.

The Article:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/ ... ronavirus/

This is a cool infographic and article:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ccine.html

A point to note from that article above is:
"Fauci, the top infectious disease expert on the Trump administration’s coronavirus task force, estimate a vaccine could arrive in at least 12 to 18 months.

The grim truth behind this rosy forecast is that a vaccine probably won’t arrive any time soon. Clinical trials almost never succeed."

From the infographic they put forward 3 scenarios:
1 if we do this traditionally it will take from 2020 to 2033 = 13yrs.
2 if start trials early it will take from 2020 to 2031 = 11yrs.
3 if we skip the clinical stages and no academic research it will take from 2020 to 2029 = 9yrs.

They also included a "Pandemic Speed" version which had the earliest date set at 2025.
This one assume large scale testing early and using emergency provisions.

This article though was from April 30th of this year.

Most agree that less than 10% of all drugs get approval many go the way of failure.

While it does take a long time to develop we may have had a head start based on our experience with SARS.

Most agree that the goal of 18 months is highly optimistic and of a low probability, it usually takes years, earliest prediction is 2021 or 2022 (late not early)

Here is where it gets messy, if we use traditional timescales we just won't make the 18month goal the best option is to move at "Pandemic Speed" to meet the goal however this is where we come to the other problem and I quote,

"What if a promising vaccine actually makes it easier to catch the virus, or makes the disease worse after someone’s infected?

That’s been the case for a few H.I.V. drugs and vaccines for dengue fever, because of a process called vaccine-induced enhancement, in which the body reacts unexpectedly and makes the disease more dangerous."

See the problem and this is what people are concerned about and they have good reason to be that way still though there is hope.

"There are ways to slash time off this process by combining several phases and testing vaccines on more people without as much waiting."

And

“That’s why vaccines take such a long time,” said Dr. Iwasaki. “But we’re making everything very short. Hopefully we can evaluate these risks as they occur, as soon as possible.”

Now the next part after testing is making more of it:

If we start making them early and take the bet on mRNA you could make an early 2021 deadline.

But then we have logistics who get it first and how many are in front of you in the line?

Will we be using the state as a mechanism of distribution or are we putting it on the free market and let supply and demand do its thing?

As we speak about free markets lets take the time to consider this
"At this point you might be asking: Why are all these research teams announcing such optimistic forecasts when so many experts are skeptical about even an 18-month timeline? Perhaps because it’s not just the public listening — it’s investors, too.

“These biotechs are putting out all these press announcements,” said Dr. Hotez. “You just need to recognize they’re writing this for their shareholders, not for the purposes of public health.”

This is the whole thing when things like this get put out there well.....doubt creeps in.

Real world comparison

"Covid-19 lives in the shadow of the most vexing virus we’ve ever faced: H.I.V. After nearly 40 years of work, here is what we have to show for our vaccine efforts: a few Phase 3 clinical trials, one of which actually made the disease worse, and another with a success rate of just 30 percent."

Mind you COVID is vastly different from HIV but the point to bear in mind is that it takes time, all of it.

Another alternative not considered why find a vaccine why not use therapeutic drugs?

Why not pursue better home testing kits that can be self administered, enhanced state testing and contact tracing methods?

It is clear that we cannot look to vaccines alone we need a multi-pronged approach involving the state and the individual, if you don't want the vaccine fine but please practice the designated safety procedures, and invest in a home testing kit when available and be honest enough to self isolate depending on the results.

If you do get the vaccine then know that it might be longer than 18months, hopefully it will be in 2021 but if not you still need to practice the designated safety procedures in the mean time.


Numb3r4 here not the article:
In the mean time we all need to ask ourselves what can we do to prevent the spread of the virus and contracting it ourselves?

elec2020
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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby elec2020 » November 22nd, 2020, 9:31 pm

^brilliant research Numb3r4. Take a bow son. full respect for the time and effort put in to display this information

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Dohplaydat
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Re: Poll: Covid vaccine: When will you take it?

Postby Dohplaydat » November 22nd, 2020, 9:47 pm

elec2020 wrote:^ i am not even going to waste my time and read the ramblings of a known hypocrite. Please give it a rest dohplaydat. I no longer care for your hypocritical opinions.


I don't even think you know what the word hypocrite means

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