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Future of Caribbean Airlines

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agent007
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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby agent007 » May 7th, 2020, 4:03 pm

The Chinese is taking over, while they at it, might as well rebrand CAL as Air China.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby speedmelter » May 7th, 2020, 6:12 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:
speedmelter wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
MaxPower wrote:
speedmelter wrote:There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.


Pretty much sums it all.


You know it often surprises me how much you all can learn from a simple economics class.

There are so many benefits of the air bridge both economic and social. We need a cheap low cost 'bridge' to Tobago. And if anything, an additional flight should be added for ad-hoc travel.

And as for making it profitable, many have tried, it just isn't possible given the ticket price.


The route is way too short to make money from a maintenance and overhead costing standpoint. Tobago should be accessible by boat only and have an emergency chopper for air transport. I don’t understand why there is need to air ferry persons several times for the day across there and back at the taxpayer expense.


Also subsidised and the time it takes is a deterrent for quick travel. But let me guess you're one of those who prefers Tobago secedes from the nation?


no i do not wish if tobago is separated.

What i am saying is that the justification for so many flights running losses all day is missing and nobody seems to care in authority. in another country that wouldve been sorted out from the conception of the idea itself and at least a break even business model wouldve been created.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Blaze d Chalice » May 9th, 2020, 6:32 am

Seeing CAL website having flights to:

Miami from May 15th "6 seats left"
Barbados from May 19th though and "only 5 seats left"
Jamaica from 1st June.
If you try to shift the date any earlier, it saying error or not available. :?
Any of them countries allowing incoming flights?



And Tobago-Germany (Condor) from June 26th.

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supremacy_007
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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby supremacy_007 » May 9th, 2020, 11:27 am

Blaze d Chalice wrote:Seeing CAL website having flights to:

Miami from May 15th "6 seats left"
Barbados from May 19th though and "only 5 seats left"
Jamaica from 1st June.
If you try to shift the date any earlier, it saying error or not available. :?
Any of them countries allowing incoming flights?



And Tobago-Germany (Condor) from June 26th.


i don't think miami is accepting non essential travellers at this time..

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby pugboy » May 9th, 2020, 12:30 pm

Common sales ploys built into all them airline ticketing software, real fraud indeed

Blaze d Chalice wrote:Seeing CAL website having flights to:

Miami from May 15th "6 seats left"
Barbados from May 19th though and "only 5 seats left"
Jamaica from 1st June.
If you try to shift the date any earlier, it saying error or not available. :?
Any of them countries allowing incoming flights?



And Tobago-Germany (Condor) from June 26th.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dohplaydat » May 9th, 2020, 9:56 pm

pugboy wrote:Common sales ploys built into all them airline ticketing software, real fraud indeed

Blaze d Chalice wrote:Seeing CAL website having flights to:

Miami from May 15th "6 seats left"
Barbados from May 19th though and "only 5 seats left"
Jamaica from 1st June.
If you try to shift the date any earlier, it saying error or not available. :?
Any of them countries allowing incoming flights?



And Tobago-Germany (Condor) from June 26th.


No they're actually correct, but it's not 5 seats left, its usually 5 seats left at this price. They have pricing categories for seas A to K or something.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby V2NR 3.0 » May 10th, 2020, 9:41 am

CAL to dam overpriced and expensive. Im a CAL fan, but they breaking my pockets - JetBlue for it

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby supremacy_007 » May 11th, 2020, 8:38 am

V2NR 3.0 wrote:CAL to dam overpriced and expensive. Im a CAL fan, but they breaking my pockets - JetBlue for it


Yup i been flying jetblue since they started the route, cal is the back up, Jb is more bang for your buck plus their loyalty program is alot better.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » May 11th, 2020, 9:58 am

V2NR 3.0 wrote:CAL to dam overpriced and expensive. Im a CAL fan, but they breaking my pockets - JetBlue for it


It depends on timing and what your'e willing to do.
August gone was the 1st time I used CAL in almost 5 years (not counting regional or TAB) . Did an Orlando trip going with Copa and coming back with CAL through FLL.

That was the most cost effective option even considering JetBlue flys out of FLL. I just had to drive down to FL which I was going to do anyhows to visit family.

CAL had some nice stuff for kids - A backpack shaped like an airplane with colouring books, crayons and thing.
And since alluh men like Jetblue so much my wife, son and myself got the entire last row both sides.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby shaneelal » May 12th, 2020, 3:37 pm

Seems gov't already secured a loan to assist CAL.

Finance Minister Colm Imbert - “As you will realise Caribbean Airlines is earning no money at this point in time, so that we have secured a 65 million US dollar loan (TT$442m) to assist Caribbean Airlines. We may need to give WASA (Water and Sewerage Authority) some supplementary funding, that is being looked at right now."


https://trinidadexpress.com/newsextra/t ... cd1f6.html

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby neilsingh100 » May 12th, 2020, 3:56 pm

shaneelal wrote:Seems gov't already secured a loan to assist CAL.

Finance Minister Colm Imbert - “As you will realise Caribbean Airlines is earning no money at this point in time, so that we have secured a 65 million US dollar loan (TT$442m) to assist Caribbean Airlines. We may need to give WASA (Water and Sewerage Authority) some supplementary funding, that is being looked at right now."


https://trinidadexpress.com/newsextra/t ... cd1f6.html
That is US dollars we will not see again. Imbert son still working there?

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby greggle71 » May 12th, 2020, 8:36 pm

Planes grounded for 2 months now? That’s a lot of flights and leases payments on all those 737s are expected to maintained. Flight staff you have to keep paying. In flight entertainment and catering contracts probably could be adjusted downwards with the grounding. What else?

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby MaxPower » May 12th, 2020, 9:37 pm

shaneelal wrote:Seems gov't already secured a loan to assist CAL.

Finance Minister Colm Imbert - “As you will realise Caribbean Airlines is earning no money at this point in time, so that we have secured a 65 million US dollar loan (TT$442m) to assist Caribbean Airlines. We may need to give WASA (Water and Sewerage Authority) some supplementary funding, that is being looked at right now."


https://trinidadexpress.com/newsextra/t ... cd1f6.html


Yeh boi,

$442m TT to pay salaries especially pilots ranging from 25k to over 100k who home breezing.

But people cant even get a $1500 grant.

Sharing the burden man.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby neilsingh100 » May 12th, 2020, 10:16 pm

MaxPower wrote:
shaneelal wrote:Seems gov't already secured a loan to assist CAL.

Finance Minister Colm Imbert - “As you will realise Caribbean Airlines is earning no money at this point in time, so that we have secured a 65 million US dollar loan (TT$442m) to assist Caribbean Airlines. We may need to give WASA (Water and Sewerage Authority) some supplementary funding, that is being looked at right now."


https://trinidadexpress.com/newsextra/t ... cd1f6.html


Yeh boi,

$442m TT to pay salaries especially pilots ranging from 25k to over 100k who home breezing.

But people cant even get a $1500 grant.

Sharing the burden man.
Management and pilots better be taking a huge pay cut. With airlines going bankrupt and most commercial pilots furloughed it is easy to get 737 pilots willing to work for half the pay.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby daxt0r » May 13th, 2020, 6:06 am

neilsingh100 wrote:
MaxPower wrote:
shaneelal wrote:Seems gov't already secured a loan to assist CAL.

Finance Minister Colm Imbert - “As you will realise Caribbean Airlines is earning no money at this point in time, so that we have secured a 65 million US dollar loan (TT$442m) to assist Caribbean Airlines. We may need to give WASA (Water and Sewerage Authority) some supplementary funding, that is being looked at right now."


https://trinidadexpress.com/newsextra/t ... cd1f6.html


Yeh boi,

$442m TT to pay salaries especially pilots ranging from 25k to over 100k who home breezing.

But people cant even get a $1500 grant.

Sharing the burden man.
Management and pilots better be taking a huge pay cut. With airlines going bankrupt and most commercial pilots furloughed it is easy to get 737 pilots willing to work for half the pay.


in which trinidad? not this unreal place?
dem go lay off all the staff an leave management an short man macomey man son with they big pay at full straight from HSF meanwhile normal ppl cya get a cent

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby shake d livin wake d dead » May 13th, 2020, 6:13 am

CAL is the next CLICO?

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby MaxPower » May 13th, 2020, 6:33 am

Bwia/CAL love when loan start to pass...

Plenty hand dippers.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby supremacy_007 » May 13th, 2020, 7:13 am

Any word if there flights to MIA from the 16th will actually fly?

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Penguin » May 13th, 2020, 12:17 pm

shake d livin wake d dead wrote:CAL is the next CLICO?


No because CAL was actually profiting finally after, CLICO went bus due to poor investment choices. CAL is being hit hard through no fault of their own. They were improving drastically under the new CEO.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby MaxPower » May 13th, 2020, 12:40 pm

Penguin wrote:
shake d livin wake d dead wrote:CAL is the next CLICO?


No because CAL was actually profiting finally after, CLICO went bus due to poor investment choices. CAL is being hit hard through no fault of their own. They were improving drastically under the new CEO.


Unaudited profits?

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Penguin » May 13th, 2020, 12:51 pm

MaxPower wrote:
Penguin wrote:
shake d livin wake d dead wrote:CAL is the next CLICO?


No because CAL was actually profiting finally after, CLICO went bus due to poor investment choices. CAL is being hit hard through no fault of their own. They were improving drastically under the new CEO.


Unaudited profits?


Yea but even if it wasn't audited yet, you have to be blind not see the improvements they were making these last 2 years.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » May 13th, 2020, 1:07 pm

Tell me more about last year's write down from NP
Penguin wrote:
MaxPower wrote:
Penguin wrote:
shake d livin wake d dead wrote:CAL is the next CLICO?


No because CAL was actually profiting finally after, CLICO went bus due to poor investment choices. CAL is being hit hard through no fault of their own. They were improving drastically under the new CEO.


Unaudited profits?


Yea but even if it wasn't audited yet, you have to be blind not see the improvements they were making these last 2 years.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby MaxPower » May 13th, 2020, 1:47 pm

Penguin wrote:
MaxPower wrote:
Penguin wrote:
shake d livin wake d dead wrote:CAL is the next CLICO?


No because CAL was actually profiting finally after, CLICO went bus due to poor investment choices. CAL is being hit hard through no fault of their own. They were improving drastically under the new CEO.


Unaudited profits?


Yea but even if it wasn't audited yet, you have to be blind not see the improvements they were making these last 2 years.


Improvements don’t necessarily mean profits eh mamoo.

But yeh, i personally would like to believe they made some sort of profit. Like that inflight cafe...i understand it makes about $40,000TT a day.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby neilsingh100 » May 13th, 2020, 1:54 pm

Dizzy28 wrote:Tell me more about last year's write down from NP
Penguin wrote:
MaxPower wrote:
Penguin wrote:
shake d livin wake d dead wrote:CAL is the next CLICO?


No because CAL was actually profiting finally after, CLICO went bus due to poor investment choices. CAL is being hit hard through no fault of their own. They were improving drastically under the new CEO.


Unaudited profits?


Yea but even if it wasn't audited yet, you have to be blind not see the improvements they were making these last 2 years.
Wish we had some audited financials to verify these so called profits. I suspect it was write offs and creative accounting that generated those profits but still does not change the fact putting money into CAL is a bad idea. Even Warren Buffet sold off all Berkshire Hathaway's airline shares since airlines are bad investment for the foreseeable future. Even more absurd is government putting more money behind a failed airline than they allocated to small businesses or to pay salary relief grant etc.
Last edited by neilsingh100 on May 13th, 2020, 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » May 13th, 2020, 2:02 pm

neilsingh100 wrote:The lease on the 12 Boeing 737-800 airplanes in CAL's fleet is costing approximately TT$25 million / month so over two years that is TT$600 million not counting other cost like salaries which will most likely push cost to taxpayers into the billions.

What's the source of these figures?

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » May 13th, 2020, 2:38 pm

neilsingh100 wrote:
Dizzy28 wrote:Tell me more about last year's write down from NP
Penguin wrote:
MaxPower wrote:
Penguin wrote:
shake d livin wake d dead wrote:CAL is the next CLICO?


No because CAL was actually profiting finally after, CLICO went bus due to poor investment choices. CAL is being hit hard through no fault of their own. They were improving drastically under the new CEO.


Unaudited profits?


Yea but even if it wasn't audited yet, you have to be blind not see the improvements they were making these last 2 years.
Wish we had some audited financials to verify these so called profits. I suspect it was write offs and creative accounting that generated those profits but still does not change the fact putting money into CAL is a bad idea. Even Warren Buffet sold off all Berkshire Hathaway's airline shares since airlines are bad investment for the foreseeable future. Even more absurd is government putting more behind a failed airline than they allocated to small businesses or to pay salary relief grant etc.


Changes some for the good did happen at CAL under Medera however reality cannot be altered merely reworded.
F&GP Committee of Cabinet authorized a number of write downs between state enterprises last year. NP had to write down CAL, Defence Force etc.

Its easy to say you make a profit when you don't have to pay an expense that averages 24% of total costs within the industry.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dave » May 13th, 2020, 2:40 pm

They wrote each others AP and AR off?

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » May 13th, 2020, 2:55 pm

Dave wrote:They wrote each others AP and AR off?


We only get the outcomes of Cabinet from a Director within a Ministry. Sometimes maybe the Cabinet Notes, never the Cabinet Minutes. I can't say for sure if both but the wording used was writedown not debt forgiveness.

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dave » May 13th, 2020, 3:05 pm

Debt forgiveness is a cash flow thing not a profit effect.
If they wrote off something that was known to be bad but subsequently was cleared then they would realise more profit.
Nobody knows for sure right....

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Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » May 13th, 2020, 3:12 pm

Dave wrote:Debt forgiveness is a cash flow thing not a profit effect.
If they wrote off something that was known to be bad but subsequently was cleared then they would realise more profit.
Nobody knows for sure right....


From what I am seeing the terminology used is write off on the owed company side and issuance of a credit memo to the owing company.

Edit - Not CAL/NP but another Cabinet approved write off from F&GP but I assume the premise would be the same.

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