TriniTuner.com  |  Latest Event:  

Forums

Future of Caribbean Airlines

this is how we do it.......

Moderator: 3ne2nr Mods

Dohplaydat
Riding on 17's
Posts: 1538
Joined: December 17th, 2019, 8:31 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dohplaydat » May 5th, 2020, 1:40 pm

adnj wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote: Governments haven't bailed out any airline just yet, reason being, bail out now and in a year they still fail.

Airlines are now being forced to lean up, cut routes and lay off.


In case you were unaware of what happened nearly a month ago:

US government agrees on $25bn bailout for airlines as pandemic halts travel

Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-industry


Dude US airlines operate differently, you think trump letting any big business fail on his watch

adnj
punchin NOS
Posts: 2971
Joined: February 24th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby adnj » May 5th, 2020, 2:23 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:
adnj wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote: Governments haven't bailed out any airline just yet, reason being, bail out now and in a year they still fail.

Airlines are now being forced to lean up, cut routes and lay off.


In case you were unaware of what happened nearly a month ago:

US government agrees on $25bn bailout for airlines as pandemic halts travel

Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-industry


Dude US airlines operate differently, you think trump letting any big business fail on his watch
"Dude": Europe is prepping a €26B bailout package. I suppose that you missed that also.

User avatar
Dizzy28
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 11906
Joined: February 8th, 2010, 8:54 am
Location: People's Republic of Bananas

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » May 5th, 2020, 2:40 pm

adnj wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
adnj wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote: Governments haven't bailed out any airline just yet, reason being, bail out now and in a year they still fail.

Airlines are now being forced to lean up, cut routes and lay off.


In case you were unaware of what happened nearly a month ago:

US government agrees on $25bn bailout for airlines as pandemic halts travel

Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-industry


Dude US airlines operate differently, you think trump letting any big business fail on his watch
"Dude": Europe is prepping a €26B bailout package. I suppose that you missed that also.



How dare any of you question Daran!!!

Image

adnj
punchin NOS
Posts: 2971
Joined: February 24th, 2014, 2:55 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby adnj » May 5th, 2020, 3:38 pm

adnj wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
adnj wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote: Governments haven't bailed out any airline just yet, reason being, bail out now and in a year they still fail.

Airlines are now being forced to lean up, cut routes and lay off.


In case you were unaware of what happened nearly a month ago:

US government agrees on $25bn bailout for airlines as pandemic halts travel

Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-industry


Dude US airlines operate differently, you think trump letting any big business fail on his watch
"Dude": Europe is prepping a €26B bailout package. I suppose that you missed that also.


Just a little more detailed info because "US airlines operate differently."

----------------

Air France, which has obtained €7bn in loans and loan guarantees from the French government, and Lufthansa, currently negotiating a €9bn rescue package with Berlin, top the charts in the airline bailout tracker compiled by Carbon Market Watch, Greenpeace, and Transport & Environment.

European governments have formally agreed €11.5bn in financial aid for airlines , including a £600m loan from the UK Treasury and Bank of England for EasyJet. A further €14.6bn is under discussion, including £500m Richard Branson is seeking from the British government to aid Virgin Atlantic.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nvironment

Dohplaydat
Riding on 17's
Posts: 1538
Joined: December 17th, 2019, 8:31 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dohplaydat » May 5th, 2020, 4:22 pm

adnj wrote:
adnj wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
adnj wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote: Governments haven't bailed out any airline just yet, reason being, bail out now and in a year they still fail.

Airlines are now being forced to lean up, cut routes and lay off.


In case you were unaware of what happened nearly a month ago:

US government agrees on $25bn bailout for airlines as pandemic halts travel

Passenger airline companies are receiving direct aid as part of the $2.2tn Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-industry


Dude US airlines operate differently, you think trump letting any big business fail on his watch
"Dude": Europe is prepping a €26B bailout package. I suppose that you missed that also.


Just a little more detailed info because "US airlines operate differently."

----------------

Air France, which has obtained €7bn in loans and loan guarantees from the French government, and Lufthansa, currently negotiating a €9bn rescue package with Berlin, top the charts in the airline bailout tracker compiled by Carbon Market Watch, Greenpeace, and Transport & Environment.

European governments have formally agreed €11.5bn in financial aid for airlines , including a £600m loan from the UK Treasury and Bank of England for EasyJet. A further €14.6bn is under discussion, including £500m Richard Branson is seeking from the British government to aid Virgin Atlantic.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nvironment


Spoke too soon when I said they haven't gotten their bailouts approved yet, I have seen that some are.

However, many airlines are on the verge of bankruptcy and many have to agree to layoffs and structural changes in order to even get bailout money.

There are lots of backlash and opposition to bailouts going on in many countries picking and choosing a few that received isn't being honest nor consistent to what's happening world wide.

Fact is, these many bailouts might not be enough to keep affloat with current low demand.

pugboy
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 14859
Joined: September 6th, 2003, 6:18 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby pugboy » May 5th, 2020, 4:34 pm

that must be a consideration
why put billions to prop up a business which is nonexistent or gonna be severely reduced for uncertain time.

Redman
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8575
Joined: August 19th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Redman » May 5th, 2020, 4:40 pm

What would it look like if we let CAL fail.?

neilsingh100
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 728
Joined: November 20th, 2007, 9:09 am

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby neilsingh100 » May 5th, 2020, 4:42 pm

I forgot to mention that most of the money CAL will require is in US dollars meaning we would be depleting our foreign reserves to keep it as a going concern. I believe CAL also has a lot of foreign debt on its balance sheet. I hope government has the conviction to deal with CAL the same way it dealt with Petrotrin.

Dohplaydat
Riding on 17's
Posts: 1538
Joined: December 17th, 2019, 8:31 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dohplaydat » May 5th, 2020, 5:04 pm

neilsingh100 wrote:I forgot to mention that most of the money CAL will require is in US dollars meaning we would be depleting our foreign reserves to keep it as a going concern. I believe CAL also has a lot of foreign debt on its balance sheet. I hope government has the conviction to deal with CAL the same way it dealt with Petrotrin.


Hmm didn't consider this, it might be true, but is it really? I suspect most of CAL's costs are opex which isn't paid in US unless they're paying foreign staff salaries. I could be wrong.

Redman wrote:What would it look like if we let CAL fail.?


With the drop in demand, it might be ecomical for only one or two airlines offer offer international flights. Let's say it's AA and Jet Blu.

But given the drastic fall in demand and that economy of scale may not longer apply, they will have to reduce flights and increase prices.

I hope this administration bails out CAL, acquires Liat, and maybe even seeks to expand routes. A little investment now can pay off big giving us more regional power and influence.

neilsingh100
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 728
Joined: November 20th, 2007, 9:09 am

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby neilsingh100 » May 5th, 2020, 5:07 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:
neilsingh100 wrote:I forgot to mention that most of the money CAL will require is in US dollars meaning we would be depleting our foreign reserves to keep it as a going concern. I believe CAL also has a lot of foreign debt on its balance sheet. I hope government has the conviction to deal with CAL the same way it dealt with Petrotrin.


Hmm didn't consider this, it might be true, but is it really? I suspect most of CAL's costs are opex which isn't paid in US unless they're paying foreign staff salaries. I could be wrong.
Leases for airplanes, fuel, terminal/gate fees are paid in US dollars

User avatar
MaxPower
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6265
Joined: October 31st, 2010, 2:37 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby MaxPower » May 5th, 2020, 7:24 pm

For a start,

Get rid of the over 60s.

Redman
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8575
Joined: August 19th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Redman » May 5th, 2020, 8:01 pm

neilsingh100 wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
neilsingh100 wrote:I forgot to mention that most of the money CAL will require is in US dollars meaning we would be depleting our foreign reserves to keep it as a going concern. I believe CAL also has a lot of foreign debt on its balance sheet. I hope government has the conviction to deal with CAL the same way it dealt with Petrotrin.


Hmm didn't consider this, it might be true, but is it really? I suspect most of CAL's costs are opex which isn't paid in US unless they're paying foreign staff salaries. I could be wrong.
Leases for airplanes, fuel, terminal/gate fees are paid in US dollars


Of course some expenses are hard currency.

So is some of the revenue.

A foreign carrier would pressure our forex situation as well.....they eh taking TT.

Dohplaydat
Riding on 17's
Posts: 1538
Joined: December 17th, 2019, 8:31 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dohplaydat » May 5th, 2020, 9:15 pm

Redman wrote:
neilsingh100 wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
neilsingh100 wrote:I forgot to mention that most of the money CAL will require is in US dollars meaning we would be depleting our foreign reserves to keep it as a going concern. I believe CAL also has a lot of foreign debt on its balance sheet. I hope government has the conviction to deal with CAL the same way it dealt with Petrotrin.


Hmm didn't consider this, it might be true, but is it really? I suspect most of CAL's costs are opex which isn't paid in US unless they're paying foreign staff salaries. I could be wrong.
Leases for airplanes, fuel, terminal/gate fees are paid in US dollars


Of course some expenses are hard currency.

So is some of the revenue.

A foreign carrier would pressure our forex situation as well.....they eh taking TT.


Great point, I rather pay a local airline for a ticket than a foreign company.

User avatar
paid_influencer
Riding on 18's
Posts: 1702
Joined: November 18th, 2017, 4:15 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby paid_influencer » May 5th, 2020, 9:43 pm

Dohplaydat wrote:Great point, I rather pay a local airline for a ticket than a foreign company.


the bail out will cost much more than a ticket. :drinking:

running an airline is an expensive as hell thing. Maybe Trinidad needs to know the limits of its pocket and do as we did with Petrotrin. Getting past that mental hurdle to close Petrotrin was one of the major achievements of the current administration.

I hope Caribbean Airlines is not at that point, but we are in a brave new world where economic depression (not recession) is the reality. Major changes will have to be made.

also, stay far away from 'helping' LIAT. The small islanders funding that venture always biting up about "high" ticket prices. There is no room for Trinidadians to make a profit and even if we do - them goh say we robbing them, God goh smite we, etc.

speedmelter
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2632
Joined: October 1st, 2011, 7:15 pm
Location: counting stars..

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby speedmelter » May 5th, 2020, 10:58 pm

There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.

Redman
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 8575
Joined: August 19th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Redman » May 6th, 2020, 4:57 pm

paid_influencer wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:Great point, I rather pay a local airline for a ticket than a foreign company.


the bail out will cost much more than a ticket. :drinking:

running an airline is an expensive as hell thing. Maybe Trinidad needs to know the limits of its pocket and do as we did with Petrotrin. Getting past that mental hurdle to close Petrotrin was one of the major achievements of the current administration.

I hope Caribbean Airlines is not at that point, but we are in a brave new world where economic depression (not recession) is the reality. Major changes will have to be made.

also, stay far away from 'helping' LIAT. The small islanders funding that venture always biting up about "high" ticket prices. There is no room for Trinidadians to make a profit and even if we do - them goh say we robbing them, God goh smite we, etc.


Stay away from any partnership ...if they treat it like they treat UWI....they will not keep their word.

User avatar
MaxPower
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6265
Joined: October 31st, 2010, 2:37 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby MaxPower » May 6th, 2020, 5:27 pm

speedmelter wrote:There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.


Pretty much sums it all.

User avatar
ek4ever
Shifting into 6th
Posts: 1997
Joined: March 11th, 2008, 10:51 am
Location: Spot of Pain

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby ek4ever » May 6th, 2020, 5:51 pm

Maybe they could get the OWTU to run it

speedmelter
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2632
Joined: October 1st, 2011, 7:15 pm
Location: counting stars..

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby speedmelter » May 7th, 2020, 2:19 am

It is quite likely that CAL may acquire LIAT at this point. It could be a good opportunity but they will inherit some debts. There is a CAL chairman I think on the committee for the roadmap forward nonsense so it may be something they government may jump at.

speedmelter
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2632
Joined: October 1st, 2011, 7:15 pm
Location: counting stars..

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby speedmelter » May 7th, 2020, 2:20 am

ek4ever wrote:Maybe they could get the OWTU to run it


BWIA was the original petrotrin you don’t know that? They made petrotrin look above board lol

User avatar
MaxPower
Trying to catch PATCH AND VEGA
Posts: 6265
Joined: October 31st, 2010, 2:37 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby MaxPower » May 7th, 2020, 3:46 am

speedmelter wrote:It is quite likely that CAL may acquire LIAT at this point. It could be a good opportunity but they will inherit some debts. There is a CAL chairman I think on the committee for the roadmap forward nonsense so it may be something they government may jump at.


Yeh, 2 of them actually.

Shameer and Vishnu.

daxt0r
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 592
Joined: November 5th, 2009, 2:44 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby daxt0r » May 7th, 2020, 8:27 am

CAL just there to give high paying redundant jobs to ministers chirren and outside love interests, i say stop subsidizing them and let the market dictate what happens.

pugboy
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 14859
Joined: September 6th, 2003, 6:18 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby pugboy » May 7th, 2020, 8:41 am

allyuh suggesting cal acquire liat ?

neilsingh100
3NE2NR is my LIFE
Posts: 728
Joined: November 20th, 2007, 9:09 am

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby neilsingh100 » May 7th, 2020, 8:55 am

speedmelter wrote:It is quite likely that CAL may acquire LIAT at this point. It could be a good opportunity but they will inherit some debts. There is a CAL chairman I think on the committee for the roadmap forward nonsense so it may be something they government may jump at.
CAL acquiring LIAT makes no sense the same way they should have not acquired Air Jamaica. I don't think the public understands the amount of money CAL lost over the last decade and what it will cost tax payers going forward. Conservative estimates are in the billions and requires US dollars. I predict if we keep CAL going and we end up at the door steps of the IMF as most economists are predicting will happen by 2022 government will be forced to divest loss making entities similar to what Jamaica was forced to do with Air Jamaica so any money we put in now will be lost.

Dohplaydat
Riding on 17's
Posts: 1538
Joined: December 17th, 2019, 8:31 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dohplaydat » May 7th, 2020, 8:59 am

MaxPower wrote:
speedmelter wrote:There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.


Pretty much sums it all.


You know it often surprises me how much you all can learn from a simple economics class.

There are so many benefits of the air bridge both economic and social. We need a cheap low cost 'bridge' to Tobago. And if anything, an additional flight should be added for ad-hoc travel.

And as for making it profitable, many have tried, it just isn't possible given the ticket price.

User avatar
Dizzy28
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 11906
Joined: February 8th, 2010, 8:54 am
Location: People's Republic of Bananas

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » May 7th, 2020, 8:59 am

Last year Trinidad was approached in a cash for shares deal in Liat and Colm said a resounding no.

Hopefully they stay the course. We can't manage and turn a profit on an airline with North American routes we will try and turn a profit with an airline with only regional routes?
Liat has lots of baggage as well. Apart from their loss making and debt issues its Unions and many government as shareholders

https://www.caribbeanlifenews.com/liats-debt-crisis/
speedmelter wrote:It is quite likely that CAL may acquire LIAT at this point. It could be a good opportunity but they will inherit some debts. There is a CAL chairman I think on the committee for the roadmap forward nonsense so it may be something they government may jump at.

speedmelter
30 pounds of Boost
Posts: 2632
Joined: October 1st, 2011, 7:15 pm
Location: counting stars..

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby speedmelter » May 7th, 2020, 10:43 am

Dohplaydat wrote:
MaxPower wrote:
speedmelter wrote:There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.


Pretty much sums it all.


You know it often surprises me how much you all can learn from a simple economics class.

There are so many benefits of the air bridge both economic and social. We need a cheap low cost 'bridge' to Tobago. And if anything, an additional flight should be added for ad-hoc travel.

And as for making it profitable, many have tried, it just isn't possible given the ticket price.


The route is way too short to make money from a maintenance and overhead costing standpoint. Tobago should be accessible by boat only and have an emergency chopper for air transport. I don’t understand why there is need to air ferry persons several times for the day across there and back at the taxpayer expense.

User avatar
Dizzy28
TriniTuner 24-7
Posts: 11906
Joined: February 8th, 2010, 8:54 am
Location: People's Republic of Bananas

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dizzy28 » May 7th, 2020, 11:13 am

speedmelter wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
MaxPower wrote:
speedmelter wrote:There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.


Pretty much sums it all.


You know it often surprises me how much you all can learn from a simple economics class.

There are so many benefits of the air bridge both economic and social. We need a cheap low cost 'bridge' to Tobago. And if anything, an additional flight should be added for ad-hoc travel.

And as for making it profitable, many have tried, it just isn't possible given the ticket price.


The route is way too short to make money from a maintenance and overhead costing standpoint. Tobago should be accessible by boat only and have an emergency chopper for air transport. I don’t understand why there is need to air ferry persons several times for the day across there and back at the taxpayer expense.


The ferries are also heavily subsidized though.
The JDLV costs $263,580 per day to lease. You think it makes anything to close to that in fares?

Dohplaydat
Riding on 17's
Posts: 1538
Joined: December 17th, 2019, 8:31 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby Dohplaydat » May 7th, 2020, 11:54 am

speedmelter wrote:
Dohplaydat wrote:
MaxPower wrote:
speedmelter wrote:There is something that will guarantee cal to never make money and is that stupid airbridge to Tobago. It’s been a burden on this blasted country for too many years and will never be addressed.


Pretty much sums it all.


You know it often surprises me how much you all can learn from a simple economics class.

There are so many benefits of the air bridge both economic and social. We need a cheap low cost 'bridge' to Tobago. And if anything, an additional flight should be added for ad-hoc travel.

And as for making it profitable, many have tried, it just isn't possible given the ticket price.


The route is way too short to make money from a maintenance and overhead costing standpoint. Tobago should be accessible by boat only and have an emergency chopper for air transport. I don’t understand why there is need to air ferry persons several times for the day across there and back at the taxpayer expense.


Also subsidised and the time it takes is a deterrent for quick travel. But let me guess you're one of those who prefers Tobago secedes from the nation?

daxt0r
Chronic TriniTuner
Posts: 592
Joined: November 5th, 2009, 2:44 pm

Re: Future of Caribbean Airlines

Postby daxt0r » May 7th, 2020, 3:42 pm

i find they could charge a higher fare and run less flights to bago to at least break even on the route.
The ferry though would owning the ferry rather than leasing help or we do have capabilities to maintain such a vessel in house?

Advertisement

Return to “Ole talk and more Ole talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: pugboy, redmanjp, shake d livin wake d dead and 166 guests