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V2NR 3.0
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Local employee rights

Postby V2NR 3.0 » January 8th, 2020, 6:37 am

Need some feedback guys.

A work colleague of mine is currently employed in the energy industry operating in Trinidad. This position has been held for the last 8.5 years to date.

The company started a process back in August 2019 to have my co-worker transferred out of country. What was being offered was less than the current package and hence he declined. Apparently, at the same time, assuming that he would have accepted, an offer of his current role was made to a non-national who accepted. So now there is a situation where one party has accepted and is on his way to fill a role that's currently filled by a national.

The company is now saying that my colleague has no choice in the matter as the expat is on his way. The company is proposing a different role for the local guy in which he is required to report back into the desk he previously held. To date, my colleague has not signed any document indicating he has accepted anything, anywhere.

In a snapshot:

1. He is currently employed in the role.
2. Someone is coming to take his role.
3. He has to report back into the office that he once held.
4. A local National is being displaced by a non national.

Surely there is something wrong with this picture.
Last edited by V2NR 3.0 on January 8th, 2020, 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zoom rader
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Re: Local employee rights

Postby zoom rader » January 8th, 2020, 7:13 am

V2NR 3.0 wrote:Need some feedback guys.

A work colleague of mine is currently employed in the energy industry operating in Trinidad. This position has been held for the last 8.5 years to date.

The company started a process back in August 2019 to have my co-worker transferred out of country. What was being offered was less than the current package and hence he declined. Apparently, at the same time, assuming that he would have accepted, an offer of his current role was made to a non-national who accepted. So now there is a situation where one party has accepted and is on his way to fill a role that's currently filled by a national.

The company is now saying that my colleague has no choice in the matter as the expat is on his way. The company is proposing a different role for the local guy in which he is required to report back into the desk he previously held. To date, my colleague has not signed any document indicating he has accepted anything, anywhere.

In a snapshot:

1. He is currently employed in the role.
2. Someone is coming to take my role.

3. He has to report back into the office that he once held.
4. A local National is being displaced by a non national.

Surely there is something wrong with this picture.


Explain in the bold apart

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hydroep
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Re: Local employee rights

Postby hydroep » January 8th, 2020, 7:50 am

The Union should be able to advise on this...:|

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zoom rader
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Re: Local employee rights

Postby zoom rader » January 8th, 2020, 8:26 am

hydroep wrote:The Union should be able to advise on this...:|


What union?

If this is one of those new companies i doubt they have a union .

It appears his job is still active as he did not sign anything .

Employer is at fault here , but without a union the only hope is the courts.

Then again the courts most likely favors the employer. Bribes pay off in the back ground , local lawyers and court judges are all on the take and will work against him.

This country is very anti worker, employer lawyers will find away around this. Plus if he does take a lawyer , the lawyer will take him a for a ride as he will collect money from him and the employer to throw the case.

I have seen this happen many times ,

signing a job contract is to the protect the employer and not the employee

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby Drea » January 8th, 2020, 8:43 am

Ideally there should be no case here, if he never accepted or signed any agreement for a transfer/promotion then he remains in his current job. But it depends if all things occurred as stated by you. If at anytime during conversation he expressed interest in the foreign role and then only decided to pull back when he saw the salary/benefits was less then he should have vocalized this and negotiated for a better package.
However, without proper documentation one cannot be removed from their role and assigned a lower position to accommodate someone else. Take up the matter with industrial court if it comes to that, for now the company may just be threatening hoping that he quietly complies.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby zoom rader » January 8th, 2020, 8:45 am

^^^ Waste of time with industrial court

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby Skanky » January 8th, 2020, 9:01 am

Your friend like all other employees in Trinidad was confused..... what he thought was an offer was actually an ultimatum.

Even if he stays and fights for his job the company will force him out eventually.

He needs to face up to the reality of either accepting the lesser offer or looking for a new job.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby zoom rader » January 8th, 2020, 9:45 am

Skanky wrote:Your friend like all other employees in Trinidad was confused..... what he thought was an offer was actually an ultimatum.

Even if he stays and fights for his job the company will force him out eventually.

He needs to face up to the reality of either accepting the lesser offer or looking for a new job.
Yup primative industrial laws in banana republic.

Employees have very little rights and they continue to vote for PNM jackarse goverment

Just what is Jenny prime-ass doing to help local employees?

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby screwbash » January 8th, 2020, 9:58 am

he has to take it or most likely he will be fired for some reason or the other and the foreigner will still take his place. unless the foreigner changes his/her mind us locals have no say in anything.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby De Dragon » January 8th, 2020, 12:35 pm

Kill the foreigner.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby kuchurV2 » January 8th, 2020, 12:41 pm

This sounds like a demotion. He was demoted and his current post filed. There is no case, the employer can do that with some level . It can be that he wasnt performing etc. Always more truth to a story.

Sounds like he either take it or find another job

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby Chimera » January 8th, 2020, 1:32 pm

Find out who the foreigner is and email him all the front pages of the newspapers for the last year. Make sure and highlight ones where foreigners get killed. Plus send him the different travel advisories against trinidad.

He will change his mind

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby De Dragon » January 8th, 2020, 2:46 pm

kuchurV2 wrote:This sounds like a demotion. He was demoted and his current post filed. There is no case, the employer can do that with some level . It can be that he wasnt performing etc. Always more truth to a story.

Sounds like he either take it or find another job

Nope. If he was demoted, then there has to be a file with warning letters, suspensions, poor annual reviews etc. I'd try my luck in the IC. What employers count on, is that you know the hassle of getting a lawyer and waiting ten + years in some cases, is not everyone's cup of tea.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby Gem_in_i » January 8th, 2020, 3:24 pm

Can Equal Opportunities Commission help?

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby Drea » January 8th, 2020, 3:26 pm

De Dragon wrote:
kuchurV2 wrote:This sounds like a demotion. He was demoted and his current post filed. There is no case, the employer can do that with some level . It can be that he wasnt performing etc. Always more truth to a story.

Sounds like he either take it or find another job

Nope. If he was demoted, then there has to be a file with warning letters, suspensions, poor annual reviews etc. I'd try my luck in the IC. What employers count on, is that you know the hassle of getting a lawyer and waiting ten + years in some cases, is not everyone's cup of tea.


Exactly, while IC does take a while I've seen bizarre cases that swung in favour of the employee. And employers bank on the hope that most find the process too long and drawn out to pursue. At the end of the day i maintain if there is no documentation confirming the transfer or any agreement, what leg does anyone have to stand on?

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby zorced » January 8th, 2020, 6:17 pm

If that story is a fair representation, time could be of the essence so the fastest source of employee legal advice should be considered. Don't assume or give them any benefit of the doubt. An exit could be imminent so your friend will want to get the best possible exit. As mentioned above how solid his case is and all the facts could make a big difference too.

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V2NR 3.0
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Re: Local employee rights

Postby V2NR 3.0 » January 8th, 2020, 7:53 pm

zoom rader wrote:
V2NR 3.0 wrote:Need some feedback guys.

A work colleague of mine is currently employed in the energy industry operating in Trinidad. This position has been held for the last 8.5 years to date.

The company started a process back in August 2019 to have my co-worker transferred out of country. What was being offered was less than the current package and hence he declined. Apparently, at the same time, assuming that he would have accepted, an offer of his current role was made to a non-national who accepted. So now there is a situation where one party has accepted and is on his way to fill a role that's currently filled by a national.

The company is now saying that my colleague has no choice in the matter as the expat is on his way. The company is proposing a different role for the local guy in which he is required to report back into the desk he previously held. To date, my colleague has not signed any document indicating he has accepted anything, anywhere.

In a snapshot:

1. He is currently employed in the role.
2. Someone is coming to take my role.

3. He has to report back into the office that he once held.
4. A local National is being displaced by a non national.

Surely there is something wrong with this picture.


Explain in the bold apart


Sorry, that was a typo.

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V2NR 3.0
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Re: Local employee rights

Postby V2NR 3.0 » January 8th, 2020, 8:09 pm

All just got an update. The man is so freaking depressed to understand what’s going on. The company has essentially said “take it or leave it” as the decision is done. He has approached the boys in blue who have declined to take up his case. A prominent lawyer has told him to take the position as a reality check given the current state of the economy in Trinidad. What’s interesting though – the Ministry of Labour and the Ministry of Energy were both notified, and they seem to have an active interest in this case saying for far too long these things have gone unchecked. He’s hanging on to this glimmer of hope for dear life.

IR in this country is really weak and the laws governing this are really outdated.

Eye opener.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby The_Honourable » January 8th, 2020, 9:26 pm

He needs a professional attorney. There are many prominent ones who will take up the case. I can PM and suggest one to you but this attorney not cheap.

They assumed that he will take the package, he didn't plus he didn't sign anything. Once he declined, the employer started to gather information to use against him. Now he is being pressured to take it or leave it. If he still doesn't budge, the information they gathered earlier true or not will be used against him to bend over or force him out the company.

If yuh padna didn't do so already, he should document every single thing since this started. If he still has access to his files, performance appraisals, correspondences, etc, start printing and or make copies to keep at home. Remove any personal stuff and important files from the workplace. If they buss his throat, he will have documentation that his attorney can work with. This one far fetched but if he networks good with HR, see if he can get info about the expat and the position (advertised?, how long ago the expat accepted, salary, etc)

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby ProtonPowder » January 9th, 2020, 6:24 am

Definitely as everyone suggests, at least consult with an attorney. A one hour consultation can provide an incredible amount of insight.

It is incredibly likely that all future appraisals will magically start referencing non-performance, followed up by written warnings in an attempt to fire said employee.

As a last resort, update the old resume, just in case.

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V2NR 3.0
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Re: Local employee rights

Postby V2NR 3.0 » January 9th, 2020, 7:45 am

ProtonPowder wrote:Definitely as everyone suggests, at least consult with an attorney. A one hour consultation can provide an incredible amount of insight.

It is incredibly likely that all future appraisals will magically start referencing non-performance, followed up by written warnings in an attempt to fire said employee.

As a last resort, update the old resume, just in case.


Hi Proton, thank you and everyone else for pertinent feedback. I agree with you that all future appraisals would suddenly turn "negative". Is there a national labour policy preventing the removal of a national who has held the position for 8 years and only has A and B appraisals ?

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby VexXx Dogg » January 9th, 2020, 1:53 pm

ProtonPowder wrote:Definitely as everyone suggests, at least consult with an attorney. A one hour consultation can provide an incredible amount of insight.

It is incredibly likely that all future appraisals will magically start referencing non-performance, followed up by written warnings in an attempt to fire said employee.

As a last resort, update the old resume, just in case.


yup

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby De Dragon » January 9th, 2020, 8:51 pm

ProtonPowder wrote:Definitely as everyone suggests, at least consult with an attorney. A one hour consultation can provide an incredible amount of insight.

It is incredibly likely that all future appraisals will magically start referencing non-performance, followed up by written warnings in an attempt to fire said employee.

As a last resort, update the old resume, just in case.

That actually is the best thing that could happen, especially if it contrasts with his current and pass appraisals, as it will show victimization. There was a woman here where I work, who was going to be canned. She got a lawyer for her disciplinary/firing hearing, and was not only able to keep her job, but she now has security as I explained prior. In fact in the years since, she has been promoted twice, and has reached probably the furthest that she can reach given her qualifications.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby V2NR 3.0 » January 19th, 2020, 9:16 am

Update - 16th Jan 2020

The company announced via a global forum on line meeting that the expatriate was falling into the very role he currently holds. Immediately, his phone began ringing from colleagues asking what's really going on.

So there is a situation where there is a current office holder by a local and then the same office is given to an expat and the current officer holder needs to report back into the expat's office. Interesting developments.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby zoom rader » January 19th, 2020, 10:01 am

Try getting the media involved to highlight it bro.

I am sure for a work permit to be issued there has to be no local who can do that job. Then and then only a work permit can be issued

Stand your ground.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby 88sins » January 19th, 2020, 11:06 am

zoom rader wrote:Try getting the media involved to highlight it bro.

I am sure for a work permit to be issued there has to be no local who can do that job. Then and then only a work permit can be issued

Stand your ground.


This ain't Canada, and that's not how it works here.
In Trinidad and Tobago, any employer can hire anyone they want from anywhere and get a work permit for that prospective employee. I've seen it done countless times over the years in private enterprise. People coming from Grenada, and St. Vincent and getting work as joiners, x-ray techs from India, Venezuela and China, people from Jamaica & Cuba coming in as masons and electricians.

Here is a good example.
One prominent private hospital imported radiology and phlebotomy technicians from India on contract while they had a full roster of locals fulfilling those roles, as the first step in getting rid of the local employees. Then they just started shortening the locals roster to the point that they just quit because even though they were still employees they only get paid for the shifts they work and working 3 shifts a month made no sense, and the few that didn't leave they dismissed as redundant with severance pay and gratuity.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby rspann » January 19th, 2020, 12:05 pm

Going back there to work is going to be tough.

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby ProtonPowder » January 19th, 2020, 12:18 pm

somebody in there must have been paid a hefty "recruitment bonus" or "headhunter fee" for bringing in that expat

if it ever reach court you better hope Frank Seepersad get the case

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Re: Local employee rights

Postby 88sins » January 19th, 2020, 8:20 pm

rspann wrote:Going back there to work is going to be tough.

Unpleasant to say the least.

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zoom rader
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Re: Local employee rights

Postby zoom rader » January 20th, 2020, 7:33 am

88sins wrote:
zoom rader wrote:Try getting the media involved to highlight it bro.

I am sure for a work permit to be issued there has to be no local who can do that job. Then and then only a work permit can be issued

Stand your ground.


This ain't Canada, and that's not how it works here.
In Trinidad and Tobago, any employer can hire anyone they want from anywhere and get a work permit for that prospective employee. I've seen it done countless times over the years in private enterprise. People coming from Grenada, and St. Vincent and getting work as joiners, x-ray techs from India, Venezuela and China, people from Jamaica & Cuba coming in as masons and electricians.

Here is a good example.
One prominent private hospital imported radiology and phlebotomy technicians from India on contract while they had a full roster of locals fulfilling those roles, as the first step in getting rid of the local employees. Then they just started shortening the locals roster to the point that they just quit because even though they were still employees they only get paid for the shifts they work and working 3 shifts a month made no sense, and the few that didn't leave they dismissed as redundant with severance pay and gratuity.


Somehow you could be correct , years ago i remembered in order to get a work permit the employer must prove that their are no locals that can do that job.

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