OWTU TO SERVE STRIKE NOTICE ON PETROTRIN

[Joshie23]

What happens if the truth is that Petrotrin really CANNOT afford this?

They probably can't. And it sucks because imagine this..you and your wife, are successful and by extension, wealthy surgeons and you were investing in a trust fund for your kids to also act as a rainy day fund. You and your wife end up in a bad accident such that you can no longer operate and thus, you all are dismissed. But that's okay because you had your rainy day fund accumulating when money was flowing like peas. Time to start your own business. It turns out your stockbroker is a good for nothing crook that ended up using your money for whatever he saw fit and now there is nothing to pay you with, but him along with his firm are telling you 'Hard luck, you all were making good money as surgeons, so you all are set. Forget about this here money. It's gone and we can't pay you even though it was put aside when things and times were good.'

That's why I'm saying I'm not in favour of a strike. I just had a problem with people's outta timing views. While we can't always agree, you, Nos and some others have valid points but some of the others..wow..

[De Dragon]

Agreed with MG......let everyone see how much they are all paid from top to bottom

Can't compare industrial workers with pencil pushers in an office.

Do you really want to approach Immigration for a passport with that attitude?
Or how about the BIR?
Just asking .........

And yes Pencil pushers are just as important especially when they are the Civil Service.

Yes, I routinely mention this when I deal with these Government offices. I never said that their function wasn't important. Do you have any idea why oil/gas/methanol/ammonia workers get paid more than a typical office worker?

[Triniak47]

Great to see that the citizens of Trinidad are concerned about Petrotrin and its future.
They have indicated their understanding of why Petrotrin cannot pay more to their workers.
They now need to express loudly to those in authority that management of this national asset has to improved to make it profitable and it needs to have been done yesterday.
Admit that not only the current price of oil has this national company in the mess it is in.

[DVSTT]

Has petrotrin ever made a profit?

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Has petrotrin ever made a profit?

Obviously not.

[Joshie23]

Has petrotrin ever made a profit?

Obviously not.

You usually post good stuff..but you obviously haven't left some of your not so sharp posts in 2016. The Company hasn't declared a profit in the last few years, but profits have been declared, moreso when oil prices were hovering around $100-130 a barrel, remember those days?? Here's something else to burn allyuh chest..in addition to retroactive payments given out upon successful negotiations, there's something called Variable Pay, whereby after taxes are paid by the Company if a profit is made, $100 million is taken off to reinvest and then 15% of anything else is taken and distributed evenly amongst the employees. But of course, since the Company is in the red and has been for a while, there hasn't been any variable pay for a while.

The thing is, a higher salary mean paying more taxes. Paying more taxes means contributing a bigger portion to revenue earned and as a result a bigger contribution to the nations resources, i.e. GATE, Public Schools, Hospitals, etc, and what's funny is, the majority of people who are beating up are probably this who sit 'comfortably' under the $72,000 personal allowance bracket, thus contributing NO income taxes to the economy, while some 'well paid' Petrotrin employee or BP employee or IPSL employees taxes pay for their child to write up in textbooks in school, or to take 7 years to do a 3 year degree with GATE and still have to pay 25% or 50% of their own degree..funny how that works huh..

[Joshie23]

Double post.

[Joshie23]

Great to see that the citizens of Trinidad are concerned about Petrotrin and its future.
They have indicated their understanding of why Petrotrin cannot pay more to their workers.
They now need to express loudly to those in authority that management of this national asset has to improved to make it profitable and it needs to have been done yesterday.
Admit that not only the current price of oil has this national company in the mess it is in.

Very sensible post bro. From subpar engineers to a plethora of square pegs in round holes, to a massive HR department..the list goes on. There are a lot of problems plaguing Petrotrin that can be reversed quite easily but political roots have a huge part to play. Some who couldn't make a significant (positive) contribution in 30something years of service with the company, can come back after retirement as consultants or worse, the President (remember the Hassanali situation a few months ago..I guess our 9 day memory took hold of that too) to take home MASSIVE salaries and make a bad situation, worse. People like to talk about lazy employees are well paid but the impact 5 lazy low level employees have is minimal in comparison to 5 vindictive, corrupt managers, so please remember the issues are largely political.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Has petrotrin ever made a profit?

Obviously not.

You usually post good stuff..but you obviously haven't left some of your not so sharp posts in 2016. The Company hasn't declared a profit in the last few years, but profits have been declared, moreso when oil prices were hovering around $100-130 a barrel, remember those days?? Here's something else to burn allyuh chest..in addition to retroactive payments given out upon successful negotiations, there's something called Variable Pay, whereby after taxes are paid by the Company if a profit is made, $100 million is taken off to reinvest and then 15% of anything else is taken and distributed evenly amongst the employees. But of course, since the Company is in the red and has been for a while, there hasn't been any variable pay for a while.

The thing is, a higher salary mean paying more taxes. Paying more taxes means contributing a bigger portion to revenue earned and as a result a bigger contribution to the nations resources, i.e. GATE, Public Schools, Hospitals, etc, and what's funny is, the majority of people who are beating up are probably this who sit 'comfortably' under the $72,000 personal allowance bracket, thus contributing NO income taxes to the economy, while some 'well paid' Petrotrin employee or BP employee or IPSL employees taxes pay for their child to write up in textbooks in school, or to take 7 years to do a 3 year degree with GATE and still have to pay 25% or 50% of their own degree..funny how that works huh..

1. Stupid questions deserve stupid answers.

2. Thank you for the initial compliment

3. I knew that someone would take the time to respond to the initial stupid question. That someone would not be me.

[Joshie23]

.....

[Sunic]

Lol. Allyuh petro boys hitting them hard in d thread. Yuh could always tell those sour grapes.

[Joshie23]

Has petrotrin ever made a profit?

Obviously not.

You usually post good stuff..but you obviously haven't left some of your not so sharp posts in 2016. The Company hasn't declared a profit in the last few years, but profits have been declared, moreso when oil prices were hovering around $100-130 a barrel, remember those days?? Here's something else to burn allyuh chest..in addition to retroactive payments given out upon successful negotiations, there's something called Variable Pay, whereby after taxes are paid by the Company if a profit is made, $100 million is taken off to reinvest and then 15% of anything else is taken and distributed evenly amongst the employees. But of course, since the Company is in the red and has been for a while, there hasn't been any variable pay for a while.

The thing is, a higher salary mean paying more taxes. Paying more taxes means contributing a bigger portion to revenue earned and as a result a bigger contribution to the nations resources, i.e. GATE, Public Schools, Hospitals, etc, and what's funny is, the majority of people who are beating up are probably this who sit 'comfortably' under the $72,000 personal allowance bracket, thus contributing NO income taxes to the economy, while some 'well paid' Petrotrin employee or BP employee or IPSL employees taxes pay for their child to write up in textbooks in school, or to take 7 years to do a 3 year degree with GATE and still have to pay 25% or 50% of their own degree..funny how that works huh..

1. Stupid questions deserve stupid answers.

2. Thank you for the initial compliment

3. I knew that someone would take the time to respond to the initial stupid question. That someone would not be me.

1/3. I had a feeling so yk, but with the avalanche of toots flowing through the thread, I couldn't resist.

2. You're most welcome. Happy New Years.

4. Some peoples chest still burning..so allyuh take a read.

[Redman]

Its easy to call sour grapes...when you cannot validate your position

This is akin to drilling a hole in the boat cuz youre thirsty....to hell with the consequences of your immediate actions on others.

So...what do the Petrotrin workers here suggest as a way forward?
How do we clean up Petrotrins performance?
How do we get more productivity from all 5000 employees?
How do we get accountability from Management while getting labor to deliver what is necessary?

I would settle with the union for deferred payments/soft mortgages, etc -bonds issued and let them trade like the CIF or just individually in the secondary market.--Soak up liquidity in the market and add tradeable instruments.
BUUUT..this would only be for the periods agreed to already.
ALL unsettled and future negotiations will be settled on a performance linked system with KPIs and internationally accepted metrics.
Raising LOCAL production has a disproportionately positive benefit to Petrotrins bottom line-and can IS an easy way to increase compensation while improving the bottom line of the Co.

I would give the union a block or 3 to run---and lets see what happens..demonstrate their ability...as stated above
Maybe defer the royalty as a way to pay the back pay due?
As a thought -at current WTI about 20-25 USD per BBL is taxes/Royalty on wells over 3 years.
154M TTD is the number bandied about. with 2000 BOPD the deferred royalty would accumulate to 154M TTD in 2-3 years(check my math..it early)
And thats at current oil prices.
OWTU can establish a management system to oversee the admin of this.Give payout priority to the older heads maybe?

I would farm out the un allocated/underperforming fields in order to get domestic onshore production up-BUT with a clear cut transparent auction using a local incubator system to finance NEW to industry companies that demonstrate sufficient capabilities...the system will retain a % ownership of the ventures in a NEL like structure.
This a way to link the local financial sector to the PRODUCING sector in this economy-USD generation

Ideally we would have multiple small companies that hire locals and bring broader operational capacity into the local market.


I think above would
-get local prod up,reduce the need to import 100k BOPD and export the USD needed to buy it.
-Empower the employees to treat the co as their own
-Not draw down the co financial resources immediately.
-Deepen the financial sector s participation in the back bone of our economy
-Expand the local industry with the concurrent employment and multiplier effects.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

Once Roget gt with an increase in pay..Duke gona jump on the band wagon one time..strikes like wow

[Kronik]

[quote="Joshie23"

I'm not a fan of the strike and I understand the economic situation is bad so again..I can agree with 0-0-0 for '14-'17 but when T&TEC employees getting their retroactive to the tune of $84,000 as Part 1 of 3, for example and some teachers getting in excess of $90,000, [/quote]

Now the money T&TEC workers getting that you quote there, that was salary increase AND job evaluation re-grade for the period 12-17 in 3 parts, and you didn't minus COLA recovery, approx 30k, PAYE approx 20k, retro contributions retirement, savings etc, approx 10k. The take home for T&TEC workers was not as glamorous as you saying, because the state of the company was taken into consideration in the negotiation, and it was better to have a job later on than get big money and bleed the company dry

[Joshie23]

I'm not a fan of the strike and I understand the economic situation is bad so again..I can agree with 0-0-0 for '14-'17 but when T&TEC employees getting their retroactive to the tune of $84,000 as Part 1 of 3, for example and some teachers getting in excess of $90,000,

Now the money T&TEC workers getting that you quote there, that was salary increase AND job evaluation re-grade for the period 12-17 in 3 parts, and you didn't minus COLA recovery, approx 30k, PAYE approx 20k, retro contributions retirement, savings etc, approx 10k. The take home for T&TEC workers was not as glamorous as you saying, because the state of the company was taken into consideration in the negotiation, and it was better to have a job later on than get big money and bleed the company dry

Well look at that..it would seem that someone talking about how much money an employee from a company receives after many a long day or a 'coverall drenched with sweat day' or an 'thank God that occupational accident wasn't life-threatening' day as though they didn't earn or even deserve it because of whatever circumstances surrounding it, makes some of us a little uncomfortable..again, funny how that works huh???

[nervewrecker]

And they say complaining without providing a solution is called whining.
and whining is for beyotches.

Be that as it may....you get paid for the risk....and the facts remain that the variables have changed and now are such that the COUNTRY had to make adjustments...when your oil went from 100 to 30 ...no mid 50s.

World wide the industry cut about 350,000 jobs....Petrotrin cut how many???


This has nothing to do with your ENTITLEMENT to the agreed increases ....its about perspective and timing.

Your position is:
even though
Oil workers are already among highest paid.
Oil is 50% below when agreements were made.
And production is lower than when agreements were made.

You are willing to make the population suffer so as to get yuh money.

You compare yourselves to public servants but public servants dont get time and a half,double time and triple time....PS workers dont get excellent medical from AGLH, and they dont get food vouchers to buy anything at Gils, just for a double...

So Forbes says TnT oil workers get well paid on an international standard...yet your COSTS are local based...comparatively your cost of living is lower but your compensation is internationally competitive.
Thats what makes expats so happy here-international compensation ..local expenses.

Ive asked several of YOUR cohorts in Refinery ,E&P and oil stocks and Admin .....and all say that the union is stifling the company...the first thing they would do is get rid of the union...

Again it isnt about WHETHER you earned,deserve or worked for x(point in fact I think you have)...what the union seems to have missed is that they are asking for an increase to be delivered when there is real economic stress...and are HAPPY to make others in the gen population suffer in order to get it.

In forcing the issue as they are now...it is pushing the public perception towards privatization
The more money Petrotrin loses in order to pay your increases ....the more of our tax dollars are spent bailing Petrotrin out.

There are better ways to do this.

But Tell me ..

what responsibility do the workers accept for the poor production numbers?

Whats the unions position on worker productivity ???

Petrotrin did cut jobs. A lot of temporary and casual men get cut. They dont get work as often.

On another note, union lead mital to its demise.
Union encourage icol workers to strike. Same 90 day strike where beating of drum, drinking of rum and making of cook took place. Nearing the end they had a gloomy xmas and petrotrin put out an invitation to tender on the express to replace iocl. Hearing talk same union saying fire them.

Union encouraging petrotrin workets to strike for more money now. While i agree its a slap in the face to them as the monies raked in by them us used to lay salaries of others as well as increases while they get zero across the board if they get an increase either the comlany might crash or workers might get sent home. Right now nowhere hiring so they betyer had know how they pkaying thier cards.
Meanwhile the government in a position to tell them f**k off and lease out the whole oil field to its financiers:
A & V, lease operators and well services. Since before the election rowley told A &V doh hurt allyuh head. After election all that brand new equipment they silently heaped up while the last administration was in power busy drilling away.

[Dizzy28]

Basically this thread is Petrotrin workers vs the rest

[nervewrecker]

Another good indication that the government in a position to say f**k off is that they dont have much permanent men. In fact the pension plan running low because temporary men don't contribute to it. So they might just scrap eveeything and use what they have to pay retirees while sending temps on their merry way.

Wasa and t&tec have been running deficits too? No?
They are overtime champs and a t&tec crew is more than double that of a petrotrin crew.
Had to do an isolation for t&tec recently. They said 2pm. Crew come 2pm, watch the area and gone to buy food. Cane back later and said they waiting on another truck. Truck shut down, have to wait for a next truck. One hour work that was carded for 2pm commenced approx 7pm.

Same with wasa men, work dont start till after 4pm.

[joker]

And they say complaining without providing a solution is called whining.
and whining is for beyotches.

Be that as it may....you get paid for the risk....and the facts remain that the variables have changed and now are such that the COUNTRY had to make adjustments...when your oil went from 100 to 30 ...no mid 50s.

World wide the industry cut about 350,000 jobs....Petrotrin cut how many???


This has nothing to do with your ENTITLEMENT to the agreed increases ....its about perspective and timing.

Your position is:
even though
Oil workers are already among highest paid.
Oil is 50% below when agreements were made.
And production is lower than when agreements were made.

You are willing to make the population suffer so as to get yuh money.

You compare yourselves to public servants but public servants dont get time and a half,double time and triple time....PS workers dont get excellent medical from AGLH, and they dont get food vouchers to buy anything at Gils, just for a double...

So Forbes says TnT oil workers get well paid on an international standard...yet your COSTS are local based...comparatively your cost of living is lower but your compensation is internationally competitive.
Thats what makes expats so happy here-international compensation ..local expenses.

Ive asked several of YOUR cohorts in Refinery ,E&P and oil stocks and Admin .....and all say that the union is stifling the company...the first thing they would do is get rid of the union...

Again it isnt about WHETHER you earned,deserve or worked for x(point in fact I think you have)...what the union seems to have missed is that they are asking for an increase to be delivered when there is real economic stress...and are HAPPY to make others in the gen population suffer in order to get it.

In forcing the issue as they are now...it is pushing the public perception towards privatization
The more money Petrotrin loses in order to pay your increases ....the more of our tax dollars are spent bailing Petrotrin out.

There are better ways to do this.

But Tell me ..

what responsibility do the workers accept for the poor production numbers?

Whats the unions position on worker productivity ???

Petrotrin did cut jobs. A lot of temporary and casual men get cut. They dont get work as often.

On another note, union lead mital to its demise.
Union encourage icol workers to strike. Same 90 day strike where beating of drum, drinking of rum and making of cook took place. Nearing the end they had a gloomy xmas and petrotrin put out an invitation to tender on the express to replace iocl. Hearing talk same union saying fire them.

Union encouraging petrotrin workets to strike for more money now. While i agree its a slap in the face to them as the monies raked in by them us used to lay salaries of others as well as increases while they get zero across the board if they get an increase either the comlany might crash or workers might get sent home. Right now nowhere hiring so they betyer had know how they pkaying thier cards.
Meanwhile the government in a position to tell them f**k off and lease out the whole oil field to its financiers:
A & V, lease operators and well services. Since before the election rowley told A &V doh hurt allyuh head. After election all that brand new equipment they silently heaped up while the last administration was in power busy drilling away.

When you have no facts about another company sit back an put your fingers on your lips.
the union never led mittal to its demise ....the Expat game was to move away from the traditional products and go into the manufacture of construction products ....also the board decided to have 100+ expats with salaries exceeding US 70k with the M.D. getting a salary of US 93k+ perks .
They then started overpricing the steel causing them to lose Markets ...then started to supply their sister companies with steel only making US100 on a ton then they decided to cut back on production ....so now their production in half and top heavy management company lawyer AlRawi wrote the govt for a further subsidy on gas and electricity ...a subsidy they had for 30 yrs..... the total operational costs on a bad year was US644m and revenue generating to the tune of US800m to over US 1.5b.

After "fixing the books" they always declaring minimal profit or losses.

Saying the union led to the demise of mittal is an uneducated statement .

[tri_fa8]

Some ah demand getting paid more than Ministers and still want more. Just goes to say give ah man ah mountain of gold and he will want a second. The rich get richer and the poor will only continue to get poor.

[psychokid]

Has petrotrin ever made a profit?

Obviously not.

Mr. Bassie yuh starting to talk rel sheit. You were once a Petrotrin employee and know the dangers of working in that refinery. You also know the salaries so you know that they are not paid as BP, BG etc.
Additionally what that idiot said about that each employee receives an $100 meal voucher is not true. You know this and everyone knows it is not fair while everyone gets an increase Petrotrin has had none since 2011. I am not saying striking especially at this time is thr right thing but these idiots need to understand the truth before they talk they set ah rubbish.

[dude2014]

I agree that workers are entitled to get raises, but threatening a nation?
Continue to play dottish and the Govt may sell Petrotrin.
Who is going to stop the Govt?

A lot of entities has been privatised or even closed down with new ones coming onboard.
RHA's, Powergen, ISCOTT to ISPAT, Caroni Ltd to Zero, etc.
Has our lives been improved?
Whether Govt is going to do the right thing or not is anyone's guess.

My question to Roget is what are his proposals to move forward other than strike.
If they are indispensible, then why are we even here or talking about diversification?

By the way, can we even ask Errol Mc leod what is the real position?
He had more sense than Regeta ......

[De Dragon]

I agree that workers are entitled to get raises, but threatening a nation?
Continue to play dottish and the Govt may sell Petrotrin.
Who is going to stop the Govt?

A lot of entities has been privatised or even closed down with new ones coming onboard.
RHA's, Powergen, ISCOTT to ISPAT, Caroni Ltd to Zero, etc.
Has our lives been improved?
Whether Govt is going to do the right thing or not is anyone's guess.

My question to Roget is what are his proposals to move forward other than strike.
If they are indispensible, then why are we even here or talking about diversification?

By the way, can we even ask Errol Mc leod what is the real position?
He had more sense than Regeta ......

The last thing that Roget and the union would want is privatization, because it would be detrimental to their "skin c0ck" encouraging mentality. Some people in Petrotrin might actually have to start (gasp!) working

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Has petrotrin ever made a profit?

Obviously not.

Mr. Bassie yuh starting to talk rel sheit. You were once a Petrotrin employee and know the dangers of working in that refinery. You also know the salaries so you know that they are not paid as BP, BG etc.
Additionally what that idiot said about that each employee receives an $100 meal voucher is not true. You know this and everyone knows it is not fair while everyone gets an increase Petrotrin has had none since 2011. I am not saying striking especially at this time is thr right thing but these idiots need to understand the truth before they talk they set ah rubbish.

I already addressed this in a post before so don't get your panties in a bunch.

[Redman]

It's amazing that people expect raises just because it's 5 years since their last raise..cuz other people get?

Having used non food items bought with Food vouchers issued by Petrotrin...we know workers abuse that facility.
By amazing I mean asssinine.
350,000 people lost jobs in the industry...world wide ...I had a conversation with a friend that works in the MENA....he just happy to have a job.

GOM .....same....a relative took pay cuts,increased job spec and is just happy to have his job.

But Trini workers striking.
Trinidad oil industry immune to everything ?
Again this is not about entitlement...but about timing and perspective.

But the talk is R get he money so this is noise....

[De Dragon]

It's amazing that people expect raises just because it's 5 years since their last raise..cuz other people get?

Having used non food items bought with Food vouchers issued by Petrotrin...we know workers abuse that facility.
By amazing I mean asssinine.
350,000 people lost jobs in the industry...world wide ...I had a conversation with a friend that works in the MENA....he just happy to have a job.

GOM .....same....a relative took pay cuts,increased job spec and is just happy to have his job.

But Trini workers striking.
Trinidad oil industry immune to everything ?
Again this is not about entitlement...but about timing and perspective.

But the talk is R get he money so this is noise....

Roget and his bunch of agitators need to not only face reality, but ensure that their members face it as well regarding what is going on with oil/gas. To strike for 18% increases in salary is callous, and shows that they will not hesitate to put their needs before the country. Now is where Rowley should come with his "you may well get your increase, but find yourself out of a job" talk.

[Redman]

The joke is that there is now an abundance of foreign oil workers that would be happy to fill in ....so let the unions push the public perception further towards privatization......

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.....As a state enterprise there should be publication of salaries paid for job specs....let the public see what these workers get in absolute terms...details for benefits etc

[fullthrotle]

"Put country first" is the instant reaction of certain people in the society at the very mention of industrial action by workers. These calls usually emanate from persons with a vested interest--the business sector, business executives, and sometimes from ordinary citizens who do not take the time to analyse the situation but react spasmodically.

Such people ignore the practice of business people milking citizens when circumstances are favourable but refusing to make adjustments when they are not.

Because the society is not conditioned to hold people accountable (what better example could be cited than the multitudinous reports of corruption at high levels of all political parties) the society simply accepts the duplicity of the business community and continues to behave as normal.

Workers, however, are not entitled to demand fair compensation for services rendered. They are expected to "band their belly" and make do with the crumbs passed down to them by the wealthy. They are required to consider the welfare of all citizens while the rich continue to live like royalty on the backs of the very people many of whom defend them.

The OWTU must continue to do what it has to in order to improve the lives of its members, even in the face of the criticisms heaped on them.

It is quite unfortunate that considerable exposure is given to correspondents who are critical of the actions of trade unions but comments in support are frequently ignored. This seems to suggest that only persons who are anti-union are deserving of a hearing. Not good for democracy!

Karan Mahabirsingh

Carapichaima

[bushwakka]

Increase the salary but fire everyone from Petrotrin and interview to re hire (myself included). There Would'nt be so much animosity towards Petrotrin about this wage increase if there wasn't the perception that the workers are undeserving... So let them earn it