All Things US Politics Related: Trump indicted.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ hypocrisy isn’t a reason not to hold someone accountable for their actions.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Justice Department says an Oath Keepers leader waited for Trump's direction before Capitol attack

The Justice Department filing continued: "Her concern about taking action without his backing was evident in a November 9, 2020, text in which she stated, 'I am concerned this is an elaborate trap. Unless the POTUS himself activates us, it's not legit. The POTUS has the right to activate units too. If Trump asks me to come, I will. Otherwise, I can't trust it.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/11/politics ... index.html

Trump also told the Proud Boys to "Stand back and stand by" in September when Chris Wallace and Joe Biden pressed him to denounce the right-wing militia groups

[Habit7]

Justice Department says an Oath Keepers leader waited for Trump's direction before Capitol attack

The Justice Department filing continued: "Her concern about taking action without his backing was evident in a November 9, 2020, text in which she stated, 'I am concerned this is an elaborate trap. Unless the POTUS himself activates us, it's not legit. The POTUS has the right to activate units too. If Trump asks me to come, I will. Otherwise, I can't trust it.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/11/politics ... index.html

Trump also told the Proud Boys to "Stand back and stand by" in September when Chris Wallace and Joe Biden pressed him to denounce the right-wing militia groups

She said "[i]f Trump activates the Insurrection Act, I’d hate to miss it.” The Insurrection Act wasn't activated. Trump called for a "peaceful and patriotic" march to the Capitol.

It is genetic fallacy to point to an unrelated comment even before the election to claim that it influenced the reaction to the election result. Furthermore, it further hypocrisy to say that he didn't denounce Proud Boys when left-wing anarchists burn down cities with the support of Dems.


The reality is that the Dems don't have the votes and he will be acquitted, then will see what next the Dems and the media will do to stoke the wave of anti-Trump before they eventually face the reality of a Biden presidency.

[adnj]

Justice Department says an Oath Keepers leader waited for Trump's direction before Capitol attack

The Justice Department filing continued: "Her concern about taking action without his backing was evident in a November 9, 2020, text in which she stated, 'I am concerned this is an elaborate trap. Unless the POTUS himself activates us, it's not legit. The POTUS has the right to activate units too. If Trump asks me to come, I will. Otherwise, I can't trust it.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/11/politics ... index.html

Trump also told the Proud Boys to "Stand back and stand by" in September when Chris Wallace and Joe Biden pressed him to denounce the right-wing militia groups

She said "[i]f Trump activates the Insurrection Act, I’d hate to miss it.” The Insurrection Act wasn't activated. Trump called for a "peaceful and patriotic" march to the Capitol.

It is genetic fallacy to point to an unrelated comment even before the election to claim that it influenced the reaction to the election result. Furthermore, it further hypocrisy to say that he didn't denounce Proud Boys when left-wing anarchists burn down cities with the support of Dems.


The reality is that the Dems don't have the votes and he will be acquitted, then will see what next the Dems and the media will do to stoke the wave of anti-Trump before they eventually face the reality of a Biden presidency.

But no one genuinely expects that Trump will be convicted. The whole point of the trial is to appease the progressive Democrats that want to punish Trump, show the world that the United States will take decisive action against internal authoritarian actors, siphon off moderate Republican voters, and make Republican donors think twice before writing a check.

Trump did that for the Democrats - by himself.

And you also misused the term genetic fallacy.

[Habit7]

But no one genuinely expects that Trump will be convicted. The whole point of the trial is to appease the progressive Democrats that want to punish Trump, show the world that the United States will take decisive action against internal authoritarian actors, siphon off moderate Republican voters, and make Republican donors think twice before writing a check.

Trump did that for the Democrats - by himself.

And you also misused the term genetic fallacy.

You right. Dems and their surrogates in the media can spin for 3yrs that Trump presidency is illegitimate because Russia colluded with his campaign. Millions spent on investigations for it to be proven false. But if Trump alleges the same about Dems it demands "decisive action against internal authoritarian actors."

They better be careful what they sanction now doesn't come back to bite them.


And you are right, I did misuse the term.

[redmanjp]

Defense attorneys:

Trump is entitled to 1st Amendment protection as an elected official according to the Supreme Court

Every speech may have the potential to incite violence.

The word 'fight' has been used over and over by many politicians.

[adnj]

As Trump's businesses struggle, the most profitable asset in his real estate empire is at risk

Vornado's Steven Roth is mulling withholding cash flow from two buildings Vornado co-owns with Trump, which could make Trump sell his stake at a discount.

While Donald Trump undergoes a second impeachment trial in Washington, he is also confronting a potent threat to the crown jewel of his real estate holdings, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The threat, involving a highly profitable real estate partnership that generates significant cash for the Trump Organization, is ratcheting up pressure on the former president as his real estate and hospitality operations struggle under hefty debt and vastly reduced revenues, largely a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

The partnership owns two first-class commercial buildings — one on Sixth Avenue in New York City and the other in downtown San Francisco — and it is the single most profitable asset in the Trump empire. The Trump Organization owns a 30 percent stake in the buildings, while its partner, Vornado Realty Trust, a huge public real estate concern in New York City, owns 70 percent.

But now Steven Roth, Vornado's powerful founder and chairman, is considering whether to withhold the partnership's cash flows from Trump, said a person familiar with the matter. Such a move would slash the Trump Organization's cash receipts, and it could force Trump to sell his stake back to Vornado at a discount, leaving him with a smaller gain and eliminating a crucial source of cash.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tr ... e-n1257456

[shogun]

You right. Dems and their surrogates in the media can spin for 3yrs that Trump presidency is illegitimate because Russia colluded with his campaign. Millions spent on investigations for it to be proven false. But if Trump alleges the same about Dems it demands "decisive action against internal authoritarian actors."

They better be careful what they sanction now doesn't come back to bite them.


And you are right, I did misuse the term.

Actually the Mueller investigation cost about $US32 million, but recouped about $US46-48 million when Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chairman, was sentenced for conspiracy and obstruction of justice in September. As part of his plea deal, Manafort agreed to forfeit assets that amount to between $42 million and $46 million, including about $22 million in property. No outrage and concern about the tab for the seven years of investigations and millions never recouped into Benghazi, Clinton Foundation, emails, Seth Rich, Uranium One? What ever happened to those investigations?

Also, Hillary conceded the very next day. Has Trump conceded yet? All this right-wing aggrievement. Forever the victims.

You forgot to remind us again, that you're not a Trump apologist, BTW.


From December, before US Capitol riot. More "Law and Order" Republicans.



Impartial totally not Trumpist "Jurors"

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ isn't it illegal for jurors to meet privately with lawyers during a trial?
Or that doesn't apply to Senate or impeachment trials?

[zoom rader]

^ isn't it illegal for jurors to meet privately with lawyers during a trial?
Or that doesn't apply to Senate or impeachment trials?

You care more about what goes on in 5hit holes countries like USA than our banana Republic.

Amazing how you never comment on our own ill politics from the red government

Carry on

[adnj]

^ isn't it illegal for jurors to meet privately with lawyers during a trial?
Or that doesn't apply to Senate or impeachment trials?

It may carry the glow of a judicial process but by its very nature, impeachment in the United States is simply a political process that is used for government officials. The fact that the same so called jury sets a different set of rules for every Senate trial sets it apart. The rules are what they want at that time.

[Habit7]

Actually the Mueller investigation cost about $US32 million, but recouped about $US46-48 million when Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chairman, was sentenced for conspiracy and obstruction of justice in September. As part of his plea deal, Manafort agreed to forfeit assets that amount to between $42 million and $46 million, including about $22 million in property. No outrage and concern about the tab for the seven years of investigations and millions never recouped into Benghazi, Clinton Foundation, emails, Seth Rich, Uranium One? What ever happened to those investigations?

Also, Hillary conceded the very next day. Has Trump conceded yet? All this right-wing aggrievement. Forever the victims.

You forgot to remind us again, that you're not a Trump apologist, BTW.


From December, before US Capitol riot. More "Law and Order" Republicans.

Paul Manafort was under investigation before Mueller by the FBI, he was going down anyway.

You are conflating issues. The Mueller Probe was pushed by DNC and media to delegitimise the Trump election win from 2016. However, when Trump was equally delegitimising his loss in 2020, those same Russion Hoax ppl were clutching their pearls at the fact that someone could question the democratic process. The hypocrisy.
Either side investing the scandals you listed there is just par for the course, no hypocritically opposing what you did 4yrs ago.

Trump has conceded https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/07/trump-f ... an-20.html But funny you should mention Hillary because before the election she told Biden the mistake she made was to concede and that he should never concede if he loses https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... r-n1238156

So what if I am a flag-waving, MAGA hat wearing Trump apologist or a two-spirit, vegan Leftist? Argue the facts, not me.

Seems like Trump legal team was reading this thread

[redmanjp]

Senate vote now

[redmanjp]

More guilty than not guilty so far!

[redmanjp]

Guilty 57
Not guilty 43

Trump acquitted.

[MaxPower]

Commander Trump has been acquitted.

[Dohplaydat]

Commander Trump has been acquitted.

Was never going to happen, libtards got fooled by the media yet again.

Trump 2024 is back on.

[The_Honourable]

Agreed with Habit7... good political theatre and as is Trump, the media was all in for the ratings bump and hyping the left as usual.

This will affect dems in the mid-terms as it continues the trend that dems (establishment) always fail to convict trump.

The 7 republicans who voted with the dems are going to get primaried during mid-terms for sure.

[adnj]

Senate acquits Trump of inciting deadly Capitol attack

Senate Republicans leaders who voted to acquit Trump rebuked the former president, acknowledging that the House had proven its case and that Trump had violated his oath of office.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said in a striking post-acquittal speech that Trump was “morally and practically responsible” for the Jan. 6 insurrection but he is “constitutionally not eligible for conviction” because he is no longer in office.

The 57-43 vote marked the first time since 1868 that a majority of the Senate voted to convict a president on an impeachment charge. And the seven Republicans who broke ranks are the most to support the conviction of a president from their own party in American history.

“The facts are clear,” said Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.), a retiring senator whose vote to convict nonetheless came as a surprise. "The evidence is compelling that President Trump is guilty of inciting an insurrection against a coequal branch of government and that the charge rises to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/1 ... y-5-468985

[shogun]

Paul Manafort was under investigation before Mueller by the FBI, he was going down anyway.

Do you have the slightest clue how many people in that foreign-business ties/politics grey area are under investigation by the US intel apparatus at any given time? Especially when those ties are with countries deemed hostile? No, that does not mean he was "going down anyways." lol. In fact most never see any legal repercussions. Most investigations just aren't into people as visible as Manafort was in 2016. That just goes with the territory. That first FBI investigation was ended in 2014-15 and a new one began in 2017.

You are conflating issues. The Mueller Probe was pushed by DNC and media to delegitimise the Trump election win from 2016. However, when Trump was equally delegitimising his loss in 2020, those same Russion Hoax ppl were clutching their pearls at the fact that someone could question the democratic process. The hypocrisy.
Either side investing the scandals you listed there is just par for the course, no hypocritically opposing what you did 4yrs ago.

lol Conflating issues? No, you're just confused. The Mueller probe and the FBI investigation (which the Mueller investigation overtook) were separate overlapping investigations. And the probe was initiated by Rod Rosenstein in part because of the Comey firing and Trump's admission that Comey's firing was because of the "whole Russia thing." DNC's "pushing" had nothing to do with it. You would think if the DNC's influence was that extensive, why couldn't it extend to the FBI not making the investigation into Hillary, just days before the election public? Again, nothing but aggrievance. You have yet to understand that even though Mueller found no evidence of collusion (but failed to clear him of obstruction) that Trump's associates lying to investigators is what fueled the investigation widening and going forward.... AS WELL AS questions that arose about loans Manafort received after leaving the Trump campaign and his belatedly registering as a foreign agent. Which is why Trump's campaign raised intel flags when Manafort of all people was brought on to head the campaign. Lying to investigators is a crime. The DNC had nothing to do with that... even though I realize that pushing that narrative helps Trump's supporters sleep a little easier. Trump "delegitimising his loss" on the other hand, was borne out of verifiable lies debunked by the intel apparatus, election officials and even Republican governors and state officials. Trump got counts recounts, court appeals ALL failing to bring either evidence, or validation. So it would seem the only ones "clutching" anything are the Trump faithful holding on to emotional distress over Trump's loss and in inability to accept the result. They are not the same. It's also funny that in another post you talked about the "Dems and their surrogates in the media" when those same "surrogates" ran with the Hillary "Benghazi/email/ Uranium One" stories ad nauseum, eclipsing anything but shallow coverage of the Trump circus for ratings?

Trump has conceded https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/07/trump-f ... an-20.html But funny you should mention Hillary because before the election she told Biden the mistake she made was to concede and that he should never concede if he loses https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... r-n1238156

What relevance is there in what she said after the fact? She conceded. That's it. You're really reaching there buddy.

So what if I am a flag-waving, MAGA hat wearing Trump apologist or a two-spirit, vegan Leftist? Argue the facts, not me.

Exactly. Thank you for making my point. It doesn't matter. So there there's no need to hedge almost every one of your posts with repeating and reminding us? yourself? that "you're not a Trump supporter" does it? I mean, even according to you? So like you said, "Argue the facts, not me" Because I wasn't arguing "you" I was simply trying to stop you from arguing with yourself.

[De Dragon]

Habit7 like he love to lose arguments boy.............

[matr1x]

Trump dragged his ballz across AOC face

[MaxPower]

Commander Trump dragged his ballz across AOC face

Get it right Slim

[Habit7]

Let's not get twisted. You said:

Actually the Mueller investigation cost about $US32 million, but recouped about $US46-48 million when Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chairman

This is the truth:
On social media, complaints about Mueller’s spending are sometimes met with a retort that the investigation paid

for itself given related asset forfeitures.
We wondered if that were true and found there isn’t a direct link.
The financial penalties leveled against Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign chairman, stand out among nearly three-dozen indictments stemming from the probe. (Manafort’s convictions, for bank and tax fraud and other charges, were not connected to Manafort’s work on Trump’s campaign.)
As part of a plea agreement, Manafort forfeited to the government his real estate property in New York, funds in three bank accounts, and his life insurance policy. Court documents do not specify the estimated value of each asset. (Some news outlets reported that the combined value of the real estate properties could be an estimated $22 million.) https://www.politifact.com/article/2019 ... tion-cost/

The issue is that he was already being investigated for things he did before working on the Trump campaign and they used that as plea deal for cooperation with the Mueller Investigation. The point is that there was no evidence of Russian collusion with the Trump campaign despite the media and democrats touting it as overwhelming. If you have a murder investigation and you don't find a suspect but find that one of the witnesses has thousands in unpaid parking tickets, that is not a success. We maintained that charade for 3 years but Trump question voter irregularities for 2months is somehow intolerable? That is hypocrisy.

What relevance is there in what she said after the fact? She conceded. That's it. You're really reaching there buddy.

You brought up Hillary as the standard. She advised her colleague not to concede. It just so happened that her colleague won. Suddenly, it is wrong not to concede? If Hillary is wrong "after the fact" then why bring up what she did before the fact?
Also, it was widely reported that Trump conceded, you seem to be a very aware person. I am surprised that you would question if he did.

So there there's no need to hedge almost every one of your posts with repeating and reminding us? yourself? that "you're not a Trump supporter" does it?

Embellish and lies much? Almost every one of my posts? Once last week I said, "You don't have to be a fan of Trump, I am not."
But earlier in another thread I said I supported Trump (in 2020) viewtopic.php?p=10117439#p10117439 but in 2016 I was not a Trump supporter, I told you this viewtopic.php?p=9089679#p9089679

Nevertheless, he has been acquitted, again. The Dems need to find some other unifying issue because this is getting tiring and the Left-leaning media should prepare to a dip in ratings

Habit7 like he love to lose arguments boy.............

Please, you are looking like a pitiful boomcie fly. Unable to best me in other threads you are following me into this thread to be a hype man on an issue you obviously cannot delve into.

Contribute to the discussion on US Politics, only posting about me is only showing your deficiency.

[adnj]

US lawmakers call for 9/11-style commission to investigate Capitol riot

Democrats and Republicans both voice support for panel to ‘make sure it never happens again’

Democratic and Republican lawmakers have issued fresh calls for a bipartisan 9/11-style commission to investigate why government officials and law enforcement failed to stop the attack on the US Capitol in January, following Donald Trump’s acquittal in his impeachment on charges that he incited the insurrection.

The commission would be modeled after a panel created in the aftermath of the 9/11 terror attacks, which reviewed what caused the atrocity and laid out recommendations on how to foresee and prevent any future incursions.

“We need a 9/11 commission to find out what happened and make sure it never happens again, and I want to make sure that the Capitol footprint can be better defended next time,” said Lindsey Graham, a Republican senator of South Carolina and close Trump ally who voted to acquit the former president on Saturday. “His behavior after the election was over the top,” Graham said of the former president on Fox News Sunday.

...

Even Republicans who found Trump “not guilty” with their vote have tried to distance themselves from the former president. Most notably, the senate’s Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, said: “The people who stormed this building believed they were acting on the wishes and instructions of their president.”

McConnell, who insisted that he voted against impeachment because Trump was no longer in office, after refusing to hold the trial while Trump was still in office, statements on Saturday seemed to punt the responsibility of holding Trump responsible to civil courts: “We have a criminal justice system in this country. We have civil litigation. And former presidents are not immune from being held accountable by either one.”

Prior to the impeachment vote, Pelosi wrote a letter to her Democratic colleagues saying it is “clear that we will need to establish a 9/11-type commission to examine and report upon the facts, causes and security relating to the terrorist mob attack on January 6”. She renewed her support for the commission after Trump’s acquittal.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... tyle-trump

[MaxPower]

“Lawmakers” really know how to make money yes.

[Habit7]

Political theatre. As if the FBI investigation is not ongoing, they need to give the media sound bites for Trump. Meanwhile, no meaningful legislation to address the concerns of BLM and reason why more federal buildings were damaged and ppl lost their lives than in the Capitol Siege.

[adnj]

Political theatre. As if the FBI investigation is not ongoing, they need to give the media sound bites for Trump. Meanwhile, no meaningful legislation to address the concerns of BLM and reason why more federal buildings were damaged and ppl lost their lives than in the Capitol Siege.

Wandering all over the US political map, gaffes and misspellings aside, I really have to wonder why you are so out of touch with a topic that you have been beating on for four years.

There is so much information on this very topic that has been published by the White House since 2017. You may want to actually do some meaningful research before you make another post like this one.

[Habit7]

Political theatre. As if the FBI investigation is not ongoing, they need to give the media sound bites for Trump. Meanwhile, no meaningful legislation to address the concerns of BLM and reason why more federal buildings were damaged and ppl lost their lives than in the Capitol Siege.

Wandering all over the US political map, gaffes and misspellings aside, I really have to wonder why you are so out of touch with a topic that you have been beating on for four years.

There is so much information on this very topic that has been published by the White House since 2017. You may want to actually do some meaningful research before you make another post like this one.

I invite you to do the same. I am asking what has the Biden administration done since coming into power since Jan 2021 with Democratic control of the Senate and House. Telling me what is on WH website 2017 is both you not reading properly and thinking intended actions are the same as completed actions.

Biden Faces Competing Pressures on Police Reform
By Chris Simkins
February 04, 2021 06:50 AM

WASHINGTON - U.S. President Joe Biden, in his first weeks in office, is facing growing calls from civil rights groups to turn campaign pledges for police and criminal justice reform into action.

“We want Biden to deliver on the racial justice agenda,” Melanie Campbell, president and CEO of the National Coalition on Black Civic Participation, told VOA.

Groups representing law enforcement, meanwhile, say they want a seat at the table and urge consultation before any sweeping mandates are issued from Washington.

As a six-term U.S. senator, Biden had strong backing from police organizations. Now, as president, he is expected to sign an executive order that sets up a national commission on the use of excessive force by law enforcement officers. More broadly, Biden has pledged to confront and address racial inequality in America.
https://www.voanews.com/usa/biden-faces ... ice-reform

[adnj]

Meanwhile, no meaningful legislation to address the concerns of BLM

You still, STILL do not get the point of what YOU are writing.

The US Presidential Inaugural Ceremony was 25 days ago. It is unlikely that ANY legislation will pass prior to cabinet appointments. Then, perhaps a year after that, if at all.

-----

Before a bill becomes a law it must pass both houses of Congress and signed into law by the President. It may begin its journey at any time, but it must be passed during the same congressional session of its proposal, a period of one year. If it does not complete the process, it is dropped, and can only be revived through reintroduction and going through the whole process again. Not surprisingly, less that 10% of proposed bills actually become laws.

https://www.ushistory.org/gov/6e.asp