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zulu atomic
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need help with a shower heater

Postby zulu atomic » November 23rd, 2014, 11:51 am

gd tuners i have a fame super ducha shower heater and it has a white,black and green wires,but the instructions does not say which one is the live wire or nuetural wire i know the green/yellow is ground,its made in brazil but i having trouble finding the colour code,any knows which colour is for live?

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby Xplode » November 23rd, 2014, 11:54 am

Green is ground

Blue / black to blue

White wire to brown
Last edited by Xplode on November 23rd, 2014, 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby konartis » November 23rd, 2014, 11:59 am

white is red, black is black

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zulu atomic
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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby zulu atomic » November 23rd, 2014, 12:01 pm

then the black has to go to the blue because this model has white and black wires and then the green

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby Mad Hatter » November 23rd, 2014, 12:01 pm

https://www.google.tt/url?sa=t&source=w ... 080amLQ-CQ

That's the manual.

It refers to white (phase) and blue (neutral) though.
In my experience with South American wiring, white is usually the live conductor and the darker colour is the neutral.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby zulu atomic » November 23rd, 2014, 12:05 pm

thanks that info was a big help

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby screwbash » April 23rd, 2020, 5:57 am

any have this fame water heater shower head ever had a situation of the ting making a whistling noise as the water running and the water stop getting hot ? is it simple as an element to change ?

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby Dave » April 23rd, 2020, 7:03 am

Element failure just means no hot water. Never heard a whistle because of that. Whistle could mean broken pressure diaphram and water is going where it shouldn't.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby FrankChag » April 23rd, 2020, 7:39 am

reminds me of one of my fav YouTubers (on suicide showerheads..)

also, https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ide+shower

a few extra $$ for a small water heater could go a long way.


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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby maj. tom » April 23rd, 2020, 8:00 am

It's simple to change the whole shower head. That's how they were designed. Just make sure you turn off the switch/breaker before you start tinkering. The whistling sound maybe the holes somewhere are blocked with limescale.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby Keyser Soze » April 23rd, 2020, 8:16 am

do a youtube search for suicide showers.....
as said above, few extra $$ for a small water heater could go a long way...

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby adnj » April 23rd, 2020, 8:20 am

FrankChag wrote:reminds me of one of my fav YouTubers (on suicide showerheads..)

also, https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ide+shower

a few extra $$ for a small water heater could go a long way.



Or you could just take the time to learn what has to be done. Or you could pay someone that already knows how to do it right.

... The shower head should be high enough where it cannot be easily touched by any user.

... The ground wire must be used. And the ground to the panel must work properly.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby FrankChag » April 23rd, 2020, 10:33 am

^^ true true
my inlaws have this, and it irks me when I have to shower there... seeing wires in the shower.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby hindian » April 23rd, 2020, 11:32 am

I using that normal for the last 10 years or so now and I yet to even a resemblance of a shock from any of them. THEY MUST BE GROUNDED PROPERLY and on a 30amp breaker using 4 square wire. Moms have the same thing as well as my in laws. When it go bad, I just throw it in the rubbish and install a new one

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby MicroSMD Lab » April 23rd, 2020, 11:49 am

These water heaters are really good budget water heaters IMHO. I’ve used them as far back as 30 years ago. The elements are very easy to change. If it is leaking water in places other than where it supposed to, consider a new one. It can be repaired but not worth the trouble IMHO. If you have it connected to a steel coupling it can be a hassle to screw in the new one once rust sets in, it would be best to screw in a steel nipple to refresh the threads first.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby Gladiator » April 23rd, 2020, 3:22 pm

Just for the sake of the original discussion... BLACK is Live and White is Neutral..... saw somebody tell the guy that black was neutral.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby adnj » April 23rd, 2020, 4:27 pm

The wire colors are a bit different depending on the water heater, also.

The Super Ducha is switching the white wire so that should be connected to live. The blue wire from heater is then the neutral connection. The reverse would work but you would normally switch the live wire when using AC.

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Last edited by adnj on April 23rd, 2020, 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby maj. tom » April 23rd, 2020, 4:47 pm

I find this topic of wire color all very confusing. Unless it's for a very specialized system or equipment (like say the LHC), how come they don't use an international IEC standard for wire colors? Are the colors different based on the 50/60Hz systems? I understand the issue for color blind people... so why don't they just have it as one standard color worldwide that they can easily distinguish? Like how traffic lights are standard in the world.

Look this website saying all kind of madness for UK, US, CAN, EU... And each wire has an alternating color they can use.
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbo ... lor-codes/
It says white is neutral in USA/CAN, and above i'm reading that people saying white is for red. What!!!

The standard we're using in TT is based on the US code? And it seems to me that the colors changing every few decades. Somebody explain.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby MicroSMD Lab » April 24th, 2020, 9:56 am

Gladiator wrote:Just for the sake of the original discussion... BLACK is Live and White is Neutral..... saw somebody tell the guy that black was neutral.

AFAIK white is almost always neutral. The switch on the fame switches the temperature. The blue lead is also switched via the diaphragm. Since the temperature may be adjusted while the unit is already in use I would prefer to use the neutral on the white wire.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby adnj » April 24th, 2020, 12:57 pm

MicroSMD Lab wrote:
Gladiator wrote:Just for the sake of the original discussion... BLACK is Live and White is Neutral..... saw somebody tell the guy that black was neutral.

AFAIK white is almost always neutral. The switch on the fame switches the temperature. The blue lead is also switched via the diaphragm. Since the temperature may be adjusted while the unit is already in use I would prefer to use the neutral on the white wire.
Different countries observe different standards. Different uses have different colors. I don't see the standards converging any time soon.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby MicroSMD Lab » April 24th, 2020, 11:24 pm

^^ while that may be true, we don’t import electrical devices from all over the world. UK uses a different cycle AC from us and is mainly 220V so neutral may not be as necessary in their electrical devices. Anyway, what does the installation instructions say?

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby Gladiator » April 25th, 2020, 1:47 am

Just to note that there is a configuration that comprises a single wire 220v which has one live line and a neutral line...

MicroSMD Lab wrote:^^ while that may be true, we don’t import electrical devices from all over the world. UK uses a different cycle AC from us and is mainly 220V so neutral may not be as necessary in their electrical devices. Anyway, what does the installation instructions say?

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby adnj » April 25th, 2020, 5:01 am

MicroSMD Lab wrote:^^ while that may be true, we don’t import electrical devices from all over the world.


Trinidad imports electrical components from all over the world. Some companies such as Eaton and Cooper Standard have manufacturing on five continents.

On the topic of electrical standards, not even China, Taiwan and Hong Kong share the same electrical transmission standards, much less color coding.

MicroSMD Lab wrote:UK uses a different cycle AC from us and is mainly 220V so neutral may not be as necessary in their electrical devices.


By definition, single-phase alternating current electrical transmission requires a neutral wire. Three-phase does not require a neutral conductor but it is often used. Three-phase is how AC is generated. Single-phase is how some of the grid distributes power to some users. AC generation ranges from 110 to 240 volts nominal at 50 or 60 Hz. Any of these can provide electricity using 2- or 3-wire single-phase or 3- or 4-wire 3-phase.

MicroSMD Lab wrote:Anyway, what does the installation instructions say?


With respect to the installation instructions, Fame is typically nebulous with their written instructions. The rule of thumb for AC is to switch the supply. Fame shower heaters switch coil resistance with a blue wire contact but switch both line and neutral with the diaphragm contacts.

But with a user name like Micro SMD you probably remember this from second year EE classes.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby MicroSMD Lab » April 25th, 2020, 7:27 am

Gladiator wrote:Just to note that there is a configuration that comprises a single wire 220v which has one live line and a neutral line...

MicroSMD Lab wrote:^^ while that may be true, we don’t import electrical devices from all over the world. UK uses a different cycle AC from us and is mainly 220V so neutral may not be as necessary in their electrical devices. Anyway, what does the installation instructions say?

True, I have seen this with a couple of devices but 220v seems to be 2 x 110v for the most part, I'm just trying to lend a helping hand hopefully without misleading or confusing readers who may not be "electrically inclined".
adnj wrote:Trinidad imports electrical components from all over the world. Some companies such as Eaton and Cooper Standard have manufacturing on five continents.

Did you notice that I said "devices" and not "components"?

adnj wrote:On the topic of electrical standards, not even China, Taiwan and Hong Kong share the same electrical transmission standards, much less color coding.

Does China "typically" export the same products as the ones they produce for domestic use?

adnj wrote:Fame shower heaters switch coil resistance with a blue wire contact but switch both line and neutral with the diaphragm contacts.

The picture you posted previously shows the coil resistance being switched via the white wire not the blue. I agree that the live wire should be switched but in this case both live and neutral are switched via the diaphragm. However, the white wire switches the coil resistance, which, will very likely be switched while the unit is energized (external switch on) right? Now while switching, if we use the white wire as live, momentarily we would have a loose live wire very close to a possibly wet hand, the ground goes to the water chamber, not above the diaphragm so guess where the live wire will be going to complete the circuit and which company will be getting a bad reputation!
I am an engineer, but not electrical. I guess Prof. Julien and Mr. Lutchman went way beyond 2nd year EE with us.... :wink:

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby alfa » April 25th, 2020, 8:18 am

MicroSMD Lab wrote:
Gladiator wrote:Just to note that there is a configuration that comprises a single wire 220v which has one live line and a neutral line...

MicroSMD Lab wrote:^^ while that may be true, we don’t import electrical devices from all over the world. UK uses a different cycle AC from us and is mainly 220V so neutral may not be as necessary in their electrical devices. Anyway, what does the installation instructions say?

True, I have seen this with a couple of devices but 220v seems to be 2 x 110v for the most part, I'm just trying to lend a helping hand hopefully without misleading or confusing readers who may not be "electrically inclined".
adnj wrote:Trinidad imports electrical components from all over the world. Some companies such as Eaton and Cooper Standard have manufacturing on five continents.

Did you notice that I said "devices" and not "components"?

adnj wrote:On the topic of electrical standards, not even China, Taiwan and Hong Kong share the same electrical transmission standards, much less color coding.

Does China "typically" export the same products as the ones they produce for domestic use?

adnj wrote:Fame shower heaters switch coil resistance with a blue wire contact but switch both line and neutral with the diaphragm contacts.

The picture you posted previously shows the coil resistance being switched via the white wire not the blue. I agree that the live wire should be switched but in this case both live and neutral are switched via the diaphragm. However, the white wire switches the coil resistance, which, will very likely be switched while the unit is energized (external switch on) right? Now while switching, if we use the white wire as live, momentarily we would have a loose live wire very close to a possibly wet hand, the ground goes to the water chamber, not above the diaphragm so guess where the live wire will be going to complete the circuit and which company will be getting a bad reputation!
I am an engineer, but not electrical. I guess Prof. Julien and Mr. Lutchman went way beyond 2nd year EE with us.... :wink:

This is true but since the white wire switches the coil resistance if we use the blue wire as the live once the diaphragm makes contract then even if the coil resistance is disconnected via the switch then one leg of the coil will always remain energized which will be another hazard in itself. I prefer the live to go to the switch contacts as how all appliances are wired

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby adnj » April 25th, 2020, 8:35 am

alfa wrote:
MicroSMD Lab wrote:
Gladiator wrote:Just to note that there is a configuration that comprises a single wire 220v which has one live line and a neutral line...

MicroSMD Lab wrote:^^ while that may be true, we don’t import electrical devices from all over the world. UK uses a different cycle AC from us and is mainly 220V so neutral may not be as necessary in their electrical devices. Anyway, what does the installation instructions say?

True, I have seen this with a couple of devices but 220v seems to be 2 x 110v for the most part, I'm just trying to lend a helping hand hopefully without misleading or confusing readers who may not be "electrically inclined".
adnj wrote:Trinidad imports electrical components from all over the world. Some companies such as Eaton and Cooper Standard have manufacturing on five continents.

Did you notice that I said "devices" and not "components"?

adnj wrote:On the topic of electrical standards, not even China, Taiwan and Hong Kong share the same electrical transmission standards, much less color coding.

Does China "typically" export the same products as the ones they produce for domestic use?

adnj wrote:Fame shower heaters switch coil resistance with a blue wire contact but switch both line and neutral with the diaphragm contacts.

The picture you posted previously shows the coil resistance being switched via the white wire not the blue. I agree that the live wire should be switched but in this case both live and neutral are switched via the diaphragm. However, the white wire switches the coil resistance, which, will very likely be switched while the unit is energized (external switch on) right? Now while switching, if we use the white wire as live, momentarily we would have a loose live wire very close to a possibly wet hand, the ground goes to the water chamber, not above the diaphragm so guess where the live wire will be going to complete the circuit and which company will be getting a bad reputation!
I am an engineer, but not electrical. I guess Prof. Julien and Mr. Lutchman went way beyond 2nd year EE with us.... :wink:

This is true but since the white wire switches the coil resistance if we use the blue wire as the live once the diaphragm makes contract then even if the coil resistance is disconnected via the switch then one leg of the coil will always remain energized which will be another hazard in itself. I prefer the live to go to the switch contacts as how all appliances are wired


Sorry for any nomenclature differences (device vs. component). My background showing itself; i.e., the heating device is a component of the plumbing system.

The blue wire in the photo can be switched to a no-contact position also. So the heater uses a 2x-make-or-break switch because, once again, line and neutral are connected disconnected.

With the water turned on, the way to disconnect the coil is to wire blue as the line.

So I have to agree with Alfa.

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby adnj » April 30th, 2020, 8:57 am

Here's something that I found interesting:

When looking at a 3x1.5mm^2 Rhino cable (locally manufactured?) yesterday, I noticed that the colors are brown, blue and green/yellow.

Image

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby Gladiator » April 30th, 2020, 9:44 am

adnj wrote:Here's something that I found interesting:

When looking at a 3x1.5mm^2 Rhino cable (locally manufactured?) yesterday, I noticed that the colors are brown, blue and green/yellow.

Image


That's pretty much local standard cable....

Brown - Live
Blue - Neutral
Green/Yellow - Ground

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby adnj » April 30th, 2020, 1:18 pm

There were just 20 posts about whether the blue was neutral or not. :)

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Re: need help with a shower heater

Postby Gladiator » May 1st, 2020, 9:25 pm

adnj wrote:There were just 20 posts about whether the blue was neutral or not. :)



Yeah I know... my advice is to follow the local TTBS colour code. Appliances not meeting the code should be reported to them for non-compliance. It could be dangerous to people that don't know better.

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