GATE - Government Assistance for Tuition Expenses

[paid_influencer]

Instead of cutting GATE funding, why not remove funding for the fly by nights?

Seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

you have to define what is the 'baby.' Different stakeholders have different priorities. The only fair way to sort it out is to make people put their own funds on the line.

I'm going to be interested in seeing if tuition prices for defunded programs start dropping. Either the prices drop, the enrollment drops, or everything stays the same (meaning the program is very valuable on its own merit). Long-term, I see this as a good thing for both potential students and taxpayers.

[speedmelter]

So scholarships get cut by 75% and the exact content of the additional scholarship package will now be given as bursary grants. And these grants will be given to students based on a committee’s assessment. Well great is the PNM. They going to obviously give their mediocre performing youths the bulk of it and it’s no longer an incentive to study hard for a scholarship because hard work and top performance ain’t longer a factor. Wonderful!

[Redress10]

Our whole education system needs to be revamp. Too much taxpayers money is spent on what is basically private education.

This started with the colonial system of only rewarding a few with scholarships to allow further education. Thereby the best and brightest go to England and study and come back to TT and imparted their knowledge. Hence we had the ïsland scholars" who formed the basis of our first leaders and literally copied what they believed was the english system wholesale. Today we are witness the results of that failed experiment. A country that has no idea what it is.

Defund tertiary education and let the state fund those who in accepting this facility make themselves available to be of service to the state. In the US, this is done via the military. You want a university degree, then join the army and put your body on the line for your country. In return you will get a degree. We could do something similar. I don't think there exists a facility in the UK where you can have your degree funded by the state without having to pay it back.

Another way is to keep gate and turn it into a loan that needs to be repaid within the next 5 years. A lot of ppl on "gate" when carnival come around wearing 10k costumes each and every year. That could never be right.

[paid_influencer]

Another way is to keep gate and turn it into a loan that needs to be repaid within the next 5 years.

Please don't do this. The US has a system where everyone goes to college on government-backed student loans. The student loans drive demand and causes tuition increases every year at a rate well above inflation. Graduates across-the-board come out with a big debt burden. Many graduates also end up unemployed in a crap economy.

The most sustainable thing we can do is remove the government from the equation. Prices will have to come back in line with what the students themselves can afford.

[Kenjo]

Our whole education system needs to be revamp. Too much taxpayers money is spent on what is basically private education.

This started with the colonial system of only rewarding a few with scholarships to allow further education. Thereby the best and brightest go to England and study and come back to TT and imparted their knowledge. Hence we had the ïsland scholars" who formed the basis of our first leaders and literally copied what they believed was the english system wholesale. Today we are witness the results of that failed experiment. A country that has no idea what it is.

Defund tertiary education and let the state fund those who in accepting this facility make themselves available to be of service to the state. In the US, this is done via the military. You want a university degree, then join the army and put your body on the line for your country. In return you will get a degree. We could do something similar. I don't think there exists a facility in the UK where you can have your degree funded by the state without having to pay it back.

Another way is to keep gate and turn it into a loan that needs to be repaid within the next 5 years. A lot of ppl on "gate" when carnival come around wearing 10k costumes each and every year. That could never be right.

It had low interest loans before gate

[sMASH]

anti educationists. moar pools!!!

[zoom rader]

So scholarships get cut by 75% and the exact content of the additional scholarship package will now be given as bursary grants. And these grants will be given to students based on a committee’s assessment. Well great is the PNM. They going to obviously give their mediocre performing youths the bulk of it and it’s no longer an incentive to study hard for a scholarship because hard work and top performance ain’t longer a factor. Wonderful!

You spot on the committee’s assessment will favor under performing red Goverment supporters offsprings.

[Hwells]

Our whole education system needs to be revamp. Too much taxpayers money is spent on what is basically private education.

This started with the colonial system of only rewarding a few with scholarships to allow further education. Thereby the best and brightest go to England and study and come back to TT and imparted their knowledge. Hence we had the ïsland scholars" who formed the basis of our first leaders and literally copied what they believed was the english system wholesale. Today we are witness the results of that failed experiment. A country that has no idea what it is.

Defund tertiary education and let the state fund those who in accepting this facility make themselves available to be of service to the state. In the US, this is done via the military. You want a university degree, then join the army and put your body on the line for your country. In return you will get a degree. We could do something similar. I don't think there exists a facility in the UK where you can have your degree funded by the state without having to pay it back.

Another way is to keep gate and turn it into a loan that needs to be repaid within the next 5 years. A lot of ppl on "gate" when carnival come around wearing 10k costumes each and every year. That could never be right.

It had low interest loans before gate

How low interest we talking? and it had other fees to pay besides the monthly amount?

[Redman]

Has any one did a cost benefit on this program?

Are we getting value for what is being spent?

[Dizzy28]

This country has consistently fallen on global competitiveness and we still struggle to attract non energy FDI. GDP generation and exports still depend on energy products.

But we have much more people with degrees and received resumes look impressive when a vacancy ad is sent out. Man the last vacant position I sat on a panel on received three PhDs.none of whom got to the 2nd stage of the interview process.

Depends on what you were looking for the programme could be a success or epic failure.

Has any one did a cost benefit on this program?

Are we getting value for what is being spent?

[hover11]

I have a question to this, it is of my opinion that if one has the capability to achieve a PHD why would they submit themselves to working for someone , why not try to be your own boss open a business, all those years of education to simply become a good worker , it makes no sense to me. Anyway I digress, to the three persons with the PhD that simply could not make it to the second stage of the interview, I have also seen this and many other instances where people are highly educated on paper but they cannot articulate or communicate well when placed in an interview setting which makes no sense to me whatsoever.

This country has consistently fallen on global competitiveness and we still struggle to attract non energy FDI. GDP generation and exports still depend on energy products.

But we have much more people with degrees and received resumes look impressive when a vacancy ad is sent out. Man the last vacant position I sat on a panel on received three PhDs.none of whom got to the 2nd stage of the interview process.

Depends on what you were looking for the programme could be a success or epic failure.

Has any one did a cost benefit on this program?

Are we getting value for what is being spent?

[Redman]

There should be some connection between what we need as a country and what the country is asked to pay for.

What is undeniable is that what is subsidized.....is abused, and grossly inefficient and mismanaged.

Gas
Water
Electricity


Why would education be any different.

[Redress10]

The only thing Gate has succeeded in doing is keeping ppl out of employment for longer. Gate was something to make youths feel like they doing something. All those years spent studying and they have no relevant real world skills.

Most ppl in TT seriously underskill. None of our higher education institutions are world class so we can't develop world class skills. Apart from Uwi med, law and engineering which are all really relevant for a TT and caribbean setting, none of those programs get our citizens up to speed with the rest of the world.

An mba from ALJ is meaningless if applying for an international job. A law degree from uwi only allows you to practice law in the caribbean which isn't really a lucrative or respected legal field. A medical degree from uwi requires a transition course or test if one wants to practice in the developed world.

Our citizens have been herded into higher institutions of learning to simply ease the unemployment figures to make it look like unemployment low. There are ppl with phds applying for employment for bsc jobs. That's the reality. They got there after failing to find gainful employment at the undergraduate and postgraduate levels. Alot of people are in tertiary education simply because it is available and nothing more.

[De Dragon]

There should be some connection between what we need as a country and what the country is asked to pay for.

What is undeniable is that what is subsidized.....is abused, and grossly inefficient and mismanaged.

Gas
Water
Electricity


Why would education be any different.

So, it was abused by every single person who accessed/used it?
Why no improve the "grossly inefficient", "mismanaged" program? If the issue was the private institutions eye gouging, then isn't there a working system to prevent that from happening? The PNM's go to solution for EVERYTHING seems to be milk it dry to the benefit of their friends/family/financiers, and then sell it or scrap it. Funnily enough, not ha ha funny though , is that Yara, IPSL/Proman Nutrien etc, were able to run them efficiently and profitably, and not by using any magical business management models, but simple effective ways, that are widely known, accepted and practiced by everyone, well except the PNM

[Redress10]

I personally think a quota system was needed.

For instance if we have an overproduction of doctors then I don't see why each and every year we graduating over 100 doctors when doctors are struggling to find employment.

Why not cut the intake in half for the next couple of years until all doctors are employed and increase the numbers when a shortage becomes apparent. We have this way of doing things that defines us as a banana republic.

[Hwells]

I personally think a quota system was needed.

For instance if we have an overproduction of doctors then I don't see why each and every year we graduating over 100 doctors when doctors are struggling to find employment.

Why not cut the intake in half for the next couple of years until all doctors are employed and increase the numbers when a shortage becomes apparent. We have this way of doing things that defines us as a banana republic.

quota system, where we force people into certain jobs sounds like a communist decision.

its not in universities interest to cut enrollment, them want to max out numbers to max out money earned through fees charged.

[hover11]

I personally think a quota system was needed.

For instance if we have an overproduction of doctors then I don't see why each and every year we graduating over 100 doctors when doctors are struggling to find employment.

Why not cut the intake in half for the next couple of years until all doctors are employed and increase the numbers when a shortage becomes apparent. We have this way of doing things that defines us as a banana republic.

quota system, where we force people into certain jobs sounds like a communist decision.

its not in universities interest to cut enrollment, them want to max out numbers to max out money earned through fees charged.

Then you rather people branch out into interesting fields such as carnival studies, linguistics and history...where the need is little to none, there must be some sort of order, yes you can study but programmes that would have a beneficial impact on the country

[Hwells]

I personally think a quota system was needed.

For instance if we have an overproduction of doctors then I don't see why each and every year we graduating over 100 doctors when doctors are struggling to find employment.

Why not cut the intake in half for the next couple of years until all doctors are employed and increase the numbers when a shortage becomes apparent. We have this way of doing things that defines us as a banana republic.

quota system, where we force people into certain jobs sounds like a communist decision.

its not in universities interest to cut enrollment, them want to max out numbers to max out money earned through fees charged.

Then you rather people branch out into interesting fields such as carnival studies, linguistics and history...where the need is little to none, there must be some sort of order, yes you can study but programmes that would have a beneficial impact on the country

Notice how that talk change from something as usefull and productive as doctors, to crap such as carnival studies in an attempt to make a point.

[Kenjo]

I personally think a quota system was needed.

For instance if we have an overproduction of doctors then I don't see why each and every year we graduating over 100 doctors when doctors are struggling to find employment.

Why not cut the intake in half for the next couple of years until all doctors are employed and increase the numbers when a shortage becomes apparent. We have this way of doing things that defines us as a banana republic.

quota system, where we force people into certain jobs sounds like a communist decision.

its not in universities interest to cut enrollment, them want to max out numbers to max out money earned through fees charged.

Then you rather people branch out into interesting fields such as carnival studies, linguistics and history...where the need is little to none, there must be some sort of order, yes you can study but programmes that would have a beneficial impact on the country

Notice how that talk change from something as usefull and productive as doctors, to crap such as carnival studies in an attempt to make a point.

Literally from sense so nonsense while a solution is being presented . The funny thing is the opportunity for these hundred doctors to specialize as General practitioners or any other specialty according to the need of our society . You are making an excellent point . Otherwise marketing them to other countries .

[Redress10]

So you rather we graduate hundreds of doctors a year with no where to place them just for the sake of it? Are we going to change our healthcare system from being free to being paid so that we could afford all this medical expertise or do you want to go the route of cuba? Sending their doctors all over the world and paying them a pittance?

Why not graduate half and use the other half to fund other doctors for postgraduate and specialist roles each year?

What is more valuable to you? A new graduated doctor or a doctor gaining additional knowledge and expertise?

[death365]

Communist!!!!!!! How dare you try to quota people.... Go back Russia, and China....

I personally think a quota system was needed.

For instance if we have an overproduction of doctors then I don't see why each and every year we graduating over 100 doctors when doctors are struggling to find employment.

Why not cut the intake in half for the next couple of years until all doctors are employed and increase the numbers when a shortage becomes apparent. We have this way of doing things that defines us as a banana republic.

[death365]

Btw ah just f*in with u... There's a needs list on the scholarships tt site. Which states what the country needs

http://www.scholarships.moe.gov.tt/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Interim-Development-Needs-List.pdf

[Redress10]

Btw ah just f*in with u... There's a needs list on the scholarships tt site. Which states what the country needs

I know but it's already a quota anyway. Is only a certain number of places are available for med each year anyway. My solution is to make that number based on the needs of the country.

Right now the country needs diversification. Any sector that could assist with this should be encouraged and the requisite tertiary education to go with it.

Some of these boldface ppl want the state to pay for their degrees but the state mustn't tell them what to study. If you want to study something irrelevant then you go pay for it yaself.

[widdyphuck]

Well that's it..UWI business model bust.
Time for Robert Bermudez to buss out...

[Numb3r4]

There was a time before GATE when UWI did just fine and produced guys in the Science tech and IT fields who were able to get employment here with foreign companies and be good enough to leave and get jobs abroad.

In this case what changed was the whole migration issue it wasn't always the lowering or lesser status of UWI's degrees that prevented being employed but the overall changing dynamics of immigration.

A person mentioned the certification well most UWI students could do the exam, meaning they don't need extra schooling to say that the degree is lacking, and have and passed without any extra help their degree was good enough to get a scholarship to the foreign country or secure some type of job there. Why they came back had nothing to do with the work but rather with the issue of long term tenure/employment, family life and overall immigration status.

I do believe if we go back to the days of easier migration you'll find more foreign companies recruiting in Trinidad.
If folks in oil and gas remember how Aramco would recruit in the 90s, why come here for a driller or toolpusher or Pet. Eng or Drilling Eng.? Had to have been some value even if its only cost, maybe we were cheaper than a Texan?

I mean even now UWI engineers are still recruited by the multinationals. I think the real thing is that the job market itself is just not there. I'm not necessarily referring to automation but just plain economic contraction and other such upheavals.

With regards to the whole doctors thing I would like to put this forward:

We have an aging population would it not be advantageous to have more doctors, especially to service the more rural areas thus reducing the load on the bigger health institutions?

Is the problem with the amount of doctors or the fact that the only way for them get BOTH tangible experience in the field and build capital for a private practice is with a few (if not many) years in the public sector first before they can go out into the community with their private practice? If the public health sector isn't hiring then this puts them in a real bind because where are they to get the experience needed to start their own practices? Not to mention where are they to find the capital to start a practice rent isn't cheap and buying may very well be out of the question.

[Numb3r4]

Another thing given the contraction of the job market do we have the local capacity to absorb locally produced talent?

That may be the better question to ask? Has local industry the capacity and ability to challenge the graduates?

I know many graduates who often feel dis-appointed with what is meted out to them and no I don't mean salary.

I mean honestly outside of the government what business actively hires engineers for the purposes of research development and production or any sort of really technically challenging work? Most engineers end up working in operations and maintenance or project management, not exactly the best way to use engineers. I can only imagine how other folks are utilized.

Engineers and technically skills persons are typically valued if they are in fields that actively produce, think the economies of Japan and Germany and the US post WWII and even now in Silicon Valley. That is where you find the maximization of talent. We are still a resource extraction based economy not much in the realm of value added production.

Again given the job market contraction how does a young graduate compete with someone with 10-15+ yrs. experience? How could an entry level position require 5yrs.? This isn't any institutions fault really.

The issue was also raised with respect to folks studying because there's nothing else to do and that it is available, to a certain point this is true but consider this which do you think looks better 3yrs. without a job on your resume or 3yrs. pursuing some qualification of sorts?

I mean its probably good for your mental health better to stay occupied than drinking rot gut at the local watering hole.....I guess.

[Numb3r4]

The best way to make use of any kind of graduate be it tertiary or technical is to have a good economy, especially a diversified one, one based around value added work.

Overall good markets that are driven by market forces and not government intervention promote innovation and such thus promoting the utilization of skilled workers.

Access to a good, robust and well connected financial services also helps a lot.

[Numb3r4]

GATE overall wasn't a bad idea but the execution was poor as with most ideas here.

Why don't we have a website like the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, this would greatly help.

Also why don't we consider subsidizing tuition based on both expected demand and/or growth rate?
Areas that we forecast to be in demand we can allocate resources to keep tuition down thus encouraging study.

[Numb3r4]

The inability to effectively monetize anything is a major deterrent to innovation in the third world.

[Gladiator]

Great work to the PNM...take everything that was working, John d, teachers training college, EKiAF (sp), Sando Tech etc convert it to UTT. Then crash everything down to the ground and close it up....PNM style