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Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby Cantmis » April 7th, 2021, 9:24 am

NDA prohibit the exposure of company info to the public/competitors such as equipment design, process technology, prices, incidents,TARs etc.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby De Dragon » April 7th, 2021, 10:30 am

Redman wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
Redman wrote:When Caroline Seepersad Bachan said she was going to Cabinet to deal with all of these issues.....what happened?

Nothing, but a fairer comparison is what happened after JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels inserted themselves into the "negotiations" which is half of Pt. Lisas is now down, $300M has been spent on a no gas, 10% plant and the shut down of M4/M5. 7150 MTPD gone just like that, along with Nutrien's ,Yara's plants.
I don't recall these things happening after CSB's grandcharge. :roll:
Oh yeah the unitization coming "jess now" :roll:


Well she was moved.
Ramnarine came in....nothing done until Poten was engaged and began their gas study.
Despite knowing that there was a problem in 2011..they did not engage the MNCs in order to recover value, avoid these issues or improve the dynamic.


The reccs in general are

Solve the supply problem.
Solve the transfer pricing problem.
Optimize the supply to an equilibrium point between PTL and LNG.


We are in a crappy period no matter what.

Not doing train 1 TAR would have prevented plant closures how?
Please identify how Train 1 impacts the price of gas that NGC suppliers have set.

Be specific

You cannot compete for scarce natural gas with a company that you have an interest in, via a company that you own. What the LFD RFD PNM is doing is effectively continuing the jackarsery that BP/Shell currently engage in.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby zoom rader » April 7th, 2021, 10:34 am

Redman wrote:Any answer to the question?
Or just the same blather?
Morning Zoombindranath.
Yawn

Your questions are not relevant

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby sMASH » April 7th, 2021, 10:40 am

train 1 was down. what ever gas it was using would have not been routed to that facility. at that time, there were plants down in pt lisas for lack of gas. meaning, even with train 1 being down, there was still more demand than supply.

with train1 TAR being fast tracked, it will be ready to receive gas to operate, right after. that gas that would have been used else where, since the plants in pt lisas coudl use more, it woudl be routed there.

its not coincidental, that the same plant i.e. lng tr1 that govt has 10% share in, got ngc to foot the $300m TAR cost+ extra works.
and not conincidental that at that same time, ngc was unable to offer gas at a price acceptable to proman, titan and nutrien.
as some of those plants goes off line, that frees up the supply for when lng tr1 is ready.

its simple business, if u dont want somebody to buy, just price them out of the sale.
in this case, they dont want them to buy gas cause they need it to route to tr1.


all this is speculation without first hand info. but from my experience being on the inside, this is how it goes.



to solve supply problem, the off shore exploration and production need to find more gas, extract more gas, and send more gas.

to solve transfer pricing, that is for the MoF, MoE and i thing AG to sort out. if the transfer pricing issues is against specific contracts that ngc and MoE had them sign, then their lawyers could sort it,.... or the ag office... not sure how that works, but those are issues that occur AFTER the products are sold/taxed, what ever. i only have experience in how the gas is obtained, and converted to a product. after dat is for the accountants and lawyers to sort out.

to solve the balance between ptlisas and ptfortin. as long as the entity for distribution of the gas has in interest in any user of the gas, u will not have that happening. is either make it that govt have shares in all or have shares in none. that is they only way they could see fairly.

tr1 was already down, govt opted to spend 300m to get it back up and running. and in doing so, shuttered 2 plants in pt lisas.
the thing is, they didnt have to spend 300m, their share was only 30m.

and tell that to the employees and contract staff and contractors of the two plants that were shuttered.

bread line got longer. just waiting on camile to press release she have no more market hamper bags to give.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby sMASH » April 7th, 2021, 11:32 am

zoom rader wrote:
Redman wrote:Any answer to the question?
Or just the same blather?
Morning Zoombindranath.
Yawn

Your questions are not relevant
ent!!!!

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby De Dragon » April 7th, 2021, 2:17 pm

Notice how Red Colostomy Bag disappears when you present a cogent argument? Then he'll return with some dotish red herring argument.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby zoom rader » April 7th, 2021, 3:34 pm

De Dragon wrote:Notice how Red Colostomy Bag disappears when you present a cogent argument? Then he'll return with some dotish red herring argument.
He has to be spoon fed misleading information from the other red government bloggers, then he will get back to you

Remember these frauds know nutting about process plants

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby Redman » April 7th, 2021, 4:55 pm

De Dragon wrote:Notice how Red Colostomy Bag disappears when you present a cogent argument? Then he'll return with some dotish red herring argument.


I agree ...when I don't 'disappear' your cogency is lacking.

....

Flow ballzing up on the internet at the office.

@smash.

I would agree with you...except that the decision on where train 1 s gas would have gone would be
BP and Shell s to make.
Not NGC.

And of course they raised the price on their gas.
They would have maxed out 2 3 and 4 and still be increasing prices to NGC for supply to PTL.

Of course there is the minor issues of what are the net back margins on Methanol and Ammonia with current prices where they are.

So if it is that NGC had gas....seems that the product pricing globally would still indicate crappy plant economics, and closure if it was advantageous to the MNC.
As we are now

I know this gobbledegook isnt important to allyuh, but it matters to the people that matter.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby De Dragon » April 7th, 2021, 5:11 pm

Redman wrote:
De Dragon wrote:Notice how Red Colostomy Bag disappears when you present a cogent argument? Then he'll return with some dotish red herring argument.


I agree ...when I don't 'disappear' your cogency is lacking.

....

Flow ballzing up on the internet at the office.

@smash.

I would agree with you...except that the decision on where train 1 s gas would have gone would be
BP and Shell s to make.
Not NGC.

And of course they raised the price on their gas.
They would have maxed out 2 3 and 4 and still be increasing prices to NGC for supply to PTL.

Of course there is the minor issues of what are the net back margins on Methanol and Ammonia with current prices where they are.

So if it is that NGC had gas....seems that the product pricing globally would still indicate crappy plant economics, and closure if it was advantageous to the MNC.
As we are now

I know this gobbledegook isnt important to allyuh, but it matters to the people that matter.

Like I said dotish red herrings.
NGC getting less gas means that they have to curtail those they supply namely Pt. Lisas. The prioritizing of Train 1 for gas, means that the curtailments will continue. Train 1 was ready to be shut down indefinitely until two gargantuan kant "negotiators" JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels decide to agree to fund a TAR to the tune of $300M. Miraculously, gas seems to be available to Train 1 once more, so while we have a stake, it is only 10% and the real beneficiaries will be BP/Shell with the majority shareholding. Essentially, NGC using their aggregator status to solely benefit the plant in which they have a beneficial interest.
You other point is similarly without merit, and just as dotish as gas pricing was the sole reason given for M4/M5 idling.
Cronberger told Proman staff: “Unfortunately, a significant increase in the NGC gas pricing for the month of April made the continued operation of our M4 and M5,000 plants economically unsustainable.”
Even Yara and Nutrien cited gas pricing along with curtailments as reasons for shuttering their plants, so while commodities are depressed, they have been MANY times before, and NEVER led to plant closures.
Keep trying, you might be able to convince even yourself one day :roll:

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby demented » April 7th, 2021, 5:13 pm

Prices are increasing on Ammonia and Methanol:

Ammonia
Image

Methanol
Image

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby Redman » April 7th, 2021, 5:26 pm

Dragon.
Tell me how does NGC force BP and Shell to sell NGC sufficient gas for PTL and not direct it straight to LNG where they still have 2,3 and 4 under supply contracts and shareholding.
And excellent control of where and who they sell to.

They also have zero liability for shortfalls into PTL.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby De Dragon » April 7th, 2021, 6:22 pm

Redman wrote:Dragon.
Tell me how does NGC force BP and Shell to sell NGC sufficient gas for PTL and not direct it straight to LNG where they still have 2,3 and 4 under supply contracts and shareholding.
And excellent control of where and who they sell to.

They also have zero liability for shortfalls into PTL.

If by "they" you mean NGC, then you are wrong again :roll: . NGC has contracted amounts that it must supply to companies on the Estate. Enforcement of the contracted amount is pointless, as NGC frequently cites(falsely) force majeures in their curtailments, and involves protracted, and costly maneuverings which most companies seem unwilling to undertake. The only use of the contracted amount is to fend off curtailments by NGC by pointing out how much you are already below the contracted amount, and that they should look elsewhere.
The "negotiations" that JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels had with BP/Shell's top brass should have rectified that issue in your first question, but what did we get? Not only continuing to cede ALL power to BP/Shell, but coughing up $300M to fully fund a TAR, to get gas which mysteriously wasn't available, and threatened said Train 1's future operations.
As much as you worship JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels and every thing LFD RFD PNM, they got outfoxed, outmaneuvered and out classed by PP/Shell.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby Cantmis » April 7th, 2021, 7:28 pm

This doesn't indicate that we are getting these prices, prices/contracts are negotiated even before construction of a plant.
demented wrote:Prices are increasing on Ammonia and Methanol:

Ammonia
Image

Methanol
Image

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby sMASH » April 7th, 2021, 8:48 pm

they have their supply contracts to fulfill as well as loans to pay, and outage funding to accrue.
hence why 90% of lng tr1 opted to NOT go ahead with the TAR just yet, they would wait till its more probable they coudl recover that investment.
when they sure they ahve gas to work with, then they would sink dat money. but while it have other things needing that money, they aint gonna fork it out just yet.

and usually tar's does be like a month, some times less, personally never saw one reach two months. so its not like a big deal to over come when they have to do it.
2025 when the time reaching for gas to come online, they could pull the trigger, tar, and take gas as its available.


and jsut like with crude prices, they budget for a certain profit margin. with low prices, they may have to use the windfalls of this quarter to even out the short falls of previous quarters.

they have to plan and budget for a certain amount of down time as well, plants run to the max and suffer wear and tare. they come down for many things. they may not know exactly what, but they have to put asside some cause sumting bong to break and hadda fix.

u never exactly sure when ur bearing hadda change, but u know it will at some point.


400 us a tonne for ammonia/meoh is no kinda money for them. that hadda come up some more. its enough to keep the lights on, but if it dips any more, its less headache to shut down, send every body home, and run fewer plants closer to design capacity rather than all the plant with less than designed a lot less efficiently .


i heard the talk from inside methanex. they using the titan gas contract to ensure they ahve enough gas to run the atlas plant. cause its more efficient, economical and safe to run one plant at design than two plants skating for gas.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby Redman » April 8th, 2021, 7:25 am

De Dragon wrote:
Redman wrote:Dragon.
Tell me how does NGC force BP and Shell to sell NGC sufficient gas for PTL and not direct it straight to LNG where they still have 2,3 and 4 under supply contracts and shareholding.
And excellent control of where and who they sell to.

They also have zero liability for shortfalls into PTL.

If by "they" you mean NGC, then you are wrong again :roll: . NGC has contracted amounts that it must supply to companies on the Estate. Enforcement of the contracted amount is pointless, as NGC frequently cites(falsely) force majeures in their curtailments, and involves protracted, and costly maneuverings which most companies seem unwilling to undertake. The only use of the contracted amount is to fend off curtailments by NGC by pointing out how much you are already below the contracted amount, and that they should look elsewhere.
The "negotiations" that JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels had with BP/Shell's top brass should have rectified that issue in your first question, but what did we get? Not only continuing to cede ALL power to BP/Shell, but coughing up $300M to fully fund a TAR, to get gas which mysteriously wasn't available, and threatened said Train 1's future operations.
As much as you worship JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels and every thing LFD RFD PNM, they got outfoxed, outmaneuvered and out classed by PP/Shell.


They meant BP and Shell.They have zero liability in the shortages to PTL.
They also have little or no shareholding.

NGC has been using FM as a way to avoid liability for the shortfalls but it is not a correct application and really not good business.

You have not answered the Q..

Trains 2,3 and 4 s gas supply are not under the control of the NGC.
So negotiation s of supply to NGC would be limited to the quantity that BP and Shell are willing to supply NGC ....which would be after they...(BP and Shell) supply 2,3 and 4.

So again...the question is
Can you please me how does NGC force BP and Shell to sell NGC sufficient gas for PTL and not direct it straight to LNG where they still have 2,3 and 4 under supply contracts and shareholding.???

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby DreamWeaver » April 8th, 2021, 8:01 am

Anybody could confirm if Atlantic Train 1 is back in production and the current estimated mmscf usage per day?

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby De Dragon » April 8th, 2021, 8:48 am

Redman wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
Redman wrote:Dragon.
Tell me how does NGC force BP and Shell to sell NGC sufficient gas for PTL and not direct it straight to LNG where they still have 2,3 and 4 under supply contracts and shareholding.
And excellent control of where and who they sell to.

They also have zero liability for shortfalls into PTL.

If by "they" you mean NGC, then you are wrong again :roll: . NGC has contracted amounts that it must supply to companies on the Estate. Enforcement of the contracted amount is pointless, as NGC frequently cites(falsely) force majeures in their curtailments, and involves protracted, and costly maneuverings which most companies seem unwilling to undertake. The only use of the contracted amount is to fend off curtailments by NGC by pointing out how much you are already below the contracted amount, and that they should look elsewhere.
The "negotiations" that JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels had with BP/Shell's top brass should have rectified that issue in your first question, but what did we get? Not only continuing to cede ALL power to BP/Shell, but coughing up $300M to fully fund a TAR, to get gas which mysteriously wasn't available, and threatened said Train 1's future operations.
As much as you worship JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels and every thing LFD RFD PNM, they got outfoxed, outmaneuvered and out classed by PP/Shell.


They meant BP and Shell.They have zero liability in the shortages to PTL.
They also have little or no shareholding.

NGC has been using FM as a way to avoid liability for the shortfalls but it is not a correct application and really not good business.

You have not answered the Q..

Trains 2,3 and 4 s gas supply are not under the control of the NGC.
So negotiation s of supply to NGC would be limited to the quantity that BP and Shell are willing to supply NGC ....which would be after they...(BP and Shell) supply 2,3 and 4.

So again...the question is
Can you please me how does NGC force BP and Shell to sell NGC sufficient gas for PTL and not direct it straight to LNG where they still have 2,3 and 4 under supply contracts and shareholding.???

If you want to split hairs as usual, not a damn thing.
HOWEVER
JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels in their "negotiations" had to have driven that point of a minimum gas supply to NGC. They were, or should have been fully aware of the situation at Pt. Lisas, and could have used their bargaining position to make this happen. LFD RFD PNM seems content to bow to MN's and pursue a pennywise, pound foolish strategy.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby Joshie23 » April 8th, 2021, 9:46 am

Yk, it would be interesting to see the points/data surrounding ALNG, NGC, Producers, Point Lisa's, etc., laid out from start to finish (as in where we are now) and possible solutions, without the name-calling, vitriol, mudslinging, etc.

I mean, we're following the points and you guys are saying brilliant stuff, but I just think there would be more credibility to each poster of the facts were laid out without any apparent bias or anything like that.

Engineers et al, surely we're capable of something like that, right? Please?
Last edited by Joshie23 on April 8th, 2021, 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby Musical Doc » April 8th, 2021, 9:47 am

DreamWeaver wrote:Anybody could confirm if Atlantic Train 1 is back in production and the current estimated mmscf usage per day?


Plant down until the 16th I was told

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby Redman » April 8th, 2021, 10:21 am

Joshie23 wrote:Yk, it would be interesting to see the points/data surrounding ALNG, NGC, Producers, Point Lisa's, etc., laid out from start to finish (as in where we are now) and possible solutions, without the name-calling, vitriol, mudslinging, etc.

I mean, we're following the points and you guys are saying brilliant stuff, but I just think there would be more credibility to each poster of the facts were laid out without any apparent bias or anything like that.

Engineers et al, surely we're capable of something like that, right? Please?



Ignore the opinions here.

Take a look at the experts on the global industry reports/ analysis on TnTs current position...Poten Gas Master Plan ...and
Farrell'sPoint of Inflexion.

Both docs are available in full and in condensed form for presentation.

Read those, see what has been published by GORTT, BP and Shell on what has been done over the years.
There are other international reports that cover the industry and make conclusions.
Read the local press

Form your own opinions.

Come back and discuss.


Same thing for Petrotrin, Solomon Report etc.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby sMASH » April 8th, 2021, 11:02 am

and when u done read all that, check back the news reports. all the plants was running under kamla WITH gas contract negotiations. and the companies decided is water more than flour, time to shutter some plants under, rowley.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby carluva » April 8th, 2021, 11:57 am

Real experts on Trinituner here yes.

Folks here versed in hot taps, tie ins, plant operations, gas redistribution, root cause analysis, welding, CWI, instrumentation, natural gas value chain, natural gas marketing, commercial/legal, energy contracting and energy governance (well at least seem that way but there's no tangible facts or evidence to confirm or refute the same) but yet, none of these knowledge houses effecting a change. Curious, isn't it

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby DreamWeaver » April 8th, 2021, 12:27 pm

Musical Doc wrote:
DreamWeaver wrote:Anybody could confirm if Atlantic Train 1 is back in production and the current estimated mmscf usage per day?


Plant down until the 16th I was told


That's about 1 week to go again. They may be starting back up and going back into production straight away then

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby zoom rader » April 8th, 2021, 1:08 pm

carluva wrote:Real experts on Trinituner here yes.

Folks here versed in hot taps, tie ins, plant operations, gas redistribution, root cause analysis, welding, CWI, instrumentation, natural gas value chain, natural gas marketing, commercial/legal, energy contracting and energy governance (well at least seem that way but there's no tangible facts or evidence to confirm or refute the same) but yet, none of these knowledge houses effecting a change. Curious, isn't it
Hoss we are now an islands of waiters and store clerks.

All the skilled workforce are all gone thanks to the red government.

We are left with idiots like eliteauto, pastor p¤rnhabit 7 and Redman.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby De Dragon » April 8th, 2021, 1:46 pm

Redman wrote:
Joshie23 wrote:Yk, it would be interesting to see the points/data surrounding ALNG, NGC, Producers, Point Lisa's, etc., laid out from start to finish (as in where we are now) and possible solutions, without the name-calling, vitriol, mudslinging, etc.

I mean, we're following the points and you guys are saying brilliant stuff, but I just think there would be more credibility to each poster of the facts were laid out without any apparent bias or anything like that.

Engineers et al, surely we're capable of something like that, right? Please?



Ignore the opinions here.

Take a look at the experts on the global industry reports/ analysis on TnTs current position...Poten Gas Master Plan ...and
Farrell'sPoint of Inflexion.

Both docs are available in full and in condensed form for presentation.

Read those, see what has been published by GORTT, BP and Shell on what has been done over the years.
There are other international reports that cover the industry and make conclusions.
Read the local press

Form your own opinions.

Come back and discuss.


Same thing for Petrotrin, Solomon Report etc.

First, stop running down whiteness :roll:
Foreigners cannot know more about our decades long industrial employees . Poten, Solomon etc can only recommend changes, and as Covid JUHN Scarfy and Co. have shown, they're quite willing to disregard those recommendations and do much damage to the energy sector.
Poten's major recommendations hinge on BP/Shell giving up the leverage which has made them BILLIONS of dollars in T&T over the years. What is the incentive to do that? Altruism? To be a good corporate citizen?

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby sMASH » April 8th, 2021, 1:55 pm

carluva wrote:Real experts on Trinituner here yes.

Folks here versed in hot taps, tie ins, plant operations, gas redistribution, root cause analysis, welding, CWI, instrumentation, natural gas value chain, natural gas marketing, commercial/legal, energy contracting and energy governance (well at least seem that way but there's no tangible facts or evidence to confirm or refute the same) but yet, none of these knowledge houses effecting a change. Curious, isn't it


320,000 trinis went leffff foot,,,, rittttte fooot. no amount of education, training, skills, experience can compete with that, bruh.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby zoom rader » April 8th, 2021, 2:25 pm

sMASH wrote:
carluva wrote:Real experts on Trinituner here yes.

Folks here versed in hot taps, tie ins, plant operations, gas redistribution, root cause analysis, welding, CWI, instrumentation, natural gas value chain, natural gas marketing, commercial/legal, energy contracting and energy governance (well at least seem that way but there's no tangible facts or evidence to confirm or refute the same) but yet, none of these knowledge houses effecting a change. Curious, isn't it


320,000 trinis went leffff foot,,,, rittttte fooot. no amount of education, training, skills, experience can compete with that, bruh.
We are left with idiots like eliteauto, pastor p¤rnhabit 7 and Redman.

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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby K74T » April 8th, 2021, 2:50 pm

The National Gas Company of Trinidad and Tobago

There has been a lot of conversation surrounding Point Lisas and the status of plant operations. It should be noted that most plants on the Point Lisas Industrial Estate are operational and under contract with NGC for the supply of natural gas. We have provided a table for your information of plants offline and online as at 8th April 2021.

The following plants went offline and then were restarted on the Point Lisas Industrial Estate (since 1st January 2020):

Nutrien O2 Plant: Offline for market-related conditions - Shut down May 23 2020; restarted Oct 23 2020
Nutrien O3 Plant: Offline for market-related conditions - Shut down Aug 1 2020; restarted March 9 2021
Nutrien O4 Plant: Offline for Maintenance - Shut down Jan 1 2021; and restarted April 5 2021
M2: Temporarily offline due to market conditions from May 18 2020; restarted Sept 25 2020.
M3: Temporarily offline due to market conditions from April 7 2020 to September 11 2020.

NGC’s contractual terms with its customers remain confidential. However, the nature of the global natural gas business has necessitated a shift from long term natural gas supply contracts to shorter-term natural gas supply contracts, in line with proven gas reserve availability and ongoing development programmes. Extending that to the downstream, it means that those downstream natural gas sales contracts must be aligned to this reality.

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Redman
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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby Redman » April 8th, 2021, 3:14 pm

White people lies.

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De Dragon
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Re: Energy Sector Thread - Operators, Engineers, Technicians Et Al

Postby De Dragon » April 8th, 2021, 3:36 pm

Redman wrote:White people lies.

Yeah I guess that's why every single one of them cited gas price and curtailment issues :roll: . Somebody is lying and doing damage control.
My money would be on the State enterprise. and not the ones who were forced to shut their plants, lose their markets, and send home their employees.

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