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carluva wrote:I fail to see the link between the Atlantic investment and failure to renew gas contracts in Pt. Lisas.
Atlantic is supplied with gas from different upstream sources via a dedicated pipeline whereas Pt. Lisas gas originates from other upstream sources and is fed via another pipeline. To suggest that gas is preferentially being sent to Atlantic is a baseless argument as this is not possible under the current system configuration.DreamWeaver wrote:Titan Timeline:
2019 December 31st - Titan's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2020.
2020 April 1st - Methanex idles Titan due to Covid and the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
2021 January 7th - Methanex announces they are shuttering Titan and retrenching workers.
M5000 Timeline:
2020 September 22nd - M5000's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2021.
2021 April 1st - MHTL idles M5000 due to the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
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...... the similarities are uncanny. Fill in the blank. I havent even considered M4 since their contract would have expired a while ago and NGC has been giving them interim supplies for quite some time. If MHTL does get a contract, I imagine Methanex will be interested in knowing the terms. Seeing as Atlantic Train 1 needs gas and the govt is eager to make good on their Train 1 TAR funding and their "better returns" agreeement for Train 1, I dont expect MHTL or Methanex to have their plants back online anytime soon.
carluva wrote:I fail to see the link between the Atlantic investment and failure to renew gas contracts in Pt. Lisas.
Atlantic is supplied with gas from different upstream sources via a dedicated pipeline whereas Pt. Lisas gas originates from other upstream sources and is fed via another pipeline. To suggest that gas is preferentially being sent to Atlantic is a baseless argument as this is not possible under the current system configuration.DreamWeaver wrote:Titan Timeline:
2019 December 31st - Titan's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2020.
2020 April 1st - Methanex idles Titan due to Covid and the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
2021 January 7th - Methanex announces they are shuttering Titan and retrenching workers.
M5000 Timeline:
2020 September 22nd - M5000's gas contract expired and they get interim extensions until April 1st, 2021.
2021 April 1st - MHTL idles M5000 due to the inability to get a long term gas contract with NGC.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
...... the similarities are uncanny. Fill in the blank. I havent even considered M4 since their contract would have expired a while ago and NGC has been giving them interim supplies for quite some time. If MHTL does get a contract, I imagine Methanex will be interested in knowing the terms. Seeing as Atlantic Train 1 needs gas and the govt is eager to make good on their Train 1 TAR funding and their "better returns" agreeement for Train 1, I dont expect MHTL or Methanex to have their plants back online anytime soon.
carluva wrote:And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.
DreamWeaver wrote:carluva wrote:And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.
This proves that the current system configuration allows for the redirection of gas if NGC decides it and hence the argument is not baseless.
carluva wrote:Dreamweaver, redirecting of gas is not as simple as opening a jumpover valve between the domestic lines and CIP. System pressures have to be considered to allow for gas to move from one line to another.
The largest hurdle is actually the commercial and legal requirements for this to take place. It is just not as easy as many think.
On the other hand, what is wrong if NGC invests in local assets to maximise returns to the country as opposed to returns being gained from foreign shareholders?
These arguments are typical Trinidadian mentality to always complain and find fault. Isn't it conceivable that NGC saw the issues with domestic gas supplies and contracts and in an effort to maintain revenue stream, they invested elsewhere to offset the loss of revenue?
For years Trinidadians have complained that the government has minimal shareholdings in the energy industry, but now that it is being done, people are finding other reasons to complain.
Imagine the loss to the national economy if no investments were done in Atlantic by NGC.
NGC have actually adapted over the last few years to expand the investment portfolio to ensure revenues remain in the country.
Your arguments are baseless as they myopically focus on one aspect of the system and are not looking at the other elements from a holistic view.
.DreamWeaver wrote:carluva wrote:And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.
This proves that the current system configuration allows for the redirection of gas if NGC decides it and hence the argument is not baseless.
carluva wrote:Dreamweaver, redirecting of gas is not as simple as opening a jumpover valve between the domestic lines and CIP. System pressures have to be considered to allow for gas to move from one line to another.
The largest hurdle is actually the commercial and legal requirements for this to take place. It is just not as easy as many think.
On the other hand, what is wrong if NGC invests in local assets to maximise returns to the country as opposed to returns being gained from foreign shareholders?
These arguments are typical Trinidadian mentality to always complain and find fault. Isn't it conceivable that NGC saw the issues with domestic gas supplies and contracts and in an effort to maintain revenue stream, they invested elsewhere to offset the loss of revenue?
For years Trinidadians have complained that the government has minimal shareholdings in the energy industry, but now that it is being done, people are finding other reasons to complain.
Imagine the loss to the national economy if no investments were done in Atlantic by NGC.
NGC have actually adapted over the last few years to expand the investment portfolio to ensure revenues remain in the country.
Your arguments are baseless as they myopically focus on one aspect of the system and are not looking at the other elements from a holistic view.
.DreamWeaver wrote:carluva wrote:And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.
This proves that the current system configuration allows for the redirection of gas if NGC decides it and hence the argument is not baseless.
sMASH wrote:any ting to do with pressures and flows, a couple guys in the field, or really just one, and one guy in a control room will handle dat. thats a non issue so long as the physical tie-ins are there.
sMASH wrote:even if the tie-ins werent there, just hadda issue some hot tap permits and viola, jump over!
DreamWeaver wrote:
If the returns are better for the govt then great. It all seems to be working out that way. If it heads that way then we'll be getting more profits as a country. Can you not agree to that? Point Lisas might be screwed though so the workers need to be aware of what is coming.
So calm down.
DreamWeaver wrote:
I said things bad for Point Lisas.
carluva wrote:DreamWeaver wrote:
If the returns are better for the govt then great. It all seems to be working out that way. If it heads that way then we'll be getting more profits as a country. Can you not agree to that? Point Lisas might be screwed though so the workers need to be aware of what is coming.
So calm down.
Never disagreed my boy. In fact, that was what I alluded to.DreamWeaver wrote:
I said things bad for Point Lisas.
The Pt. Lisas model was a failed model that did not monetise our country's resources properly. The initial vision was good, but there needed to be a review of the model and contracts several times between the 50's, 60's and now. Unfortunately, the model has proven itself to be unsustainable which is why we are now seeing these emerging issues.
carluva wrote:sMASH wrote:any ting to do with pressures and flows, a couple guys in the field, or really just one, and one guy in a control room will handle dat. thats a non issue so long as the physical tie-ins are there.
This statement alone shows the complete lack of understanding of pressures and flows into a network even though physical infrastructure may be in place.sMASH wrote:even if the tie-ins werent there, just hadda issue some hot tap permits and viola, jump over!
You make it sound as if it is as simple as going in your yard to lock off your mains valve and then cutting the PVC line to install a TEE. Hot taps are not as simple as you have suggested.
All is easier said than done and for several reasons mentioned and not, this is just not possible.
carluva wrote:sMASH wrote:any ting to do with pressures and flows, a couple guys in the field, or really just one, and one guy in a control room will handle dat. thats a non issue so long as the physical tie-ins are there.
This statement alone shows the complete lack of understanding of pressures and flows into a network even though physical infrastructure may be in place.sMASH wrote:even if the tie-ins werent there, just hadda issue some hot tap permits and viola, jump over!
You make it sound as if it is as simple as going in your yard to lock off your mains valve and then cutting the PVC line to install a TEE. Hot taps are not as simple as you have suggested.
All is easier said than done and for several reasons mentioned and not, this is just not possible.
carluva wrote:
The Pt. Lisas model was a failed model that did not monetise our country's resources properly. The initial vision was good, but there needed to be a review of the model and contracts several times between the 50's, 60's and now. Unfortunately, the model has proven itself to be unsustainable which is why we are now seeing these emerging issues.
carluva wrote:And this proves what? That there is a gas pipeline network in Trinidad and Tobago as well as jumpovers. This does not demonstrate that gas is being preferentially redirected.
sMASH wrote:carluva wrote:
The Pt. Lisas model was a failed model that did not monetise our country's resources properly. The initial vision was good, but there needed to be a review of the model and contracts several times between the 50's, 60's and now. Unfortunately, the model has proven itself to be unsustainable which is why we are now seeing these emerging issues.
it didnt fail because it was inherently flawed, cause many people came in and made a lot of money. it failed because of the management.
if rowley paid as much attention to pt lisas as he doing with pt. fortain, it might get something right.
... on second thought, scrap that. cause they negotiated their way into paying for a whole turn around for 10% shared project, and negotiated their way to unitizing and getting 5% share in the whole complex, rather than 10 and 11% in two plants.
sMASH wrote:they gone to sapp rowley head
Redman wrote:When Caroline Seepersad Bachan said she was going to Cabinet to deal with all of these issues.....what happened?
Redman wrote:When Caroline Seepersad Bachan said she was going to Cabinet to deal with all of these issues.....what happened?
SuperiorMan wrote:How long would it take to get back all these people if UNC win the next election? Like how many years would it take? Fedup of reading what these clowns are doing to this country.
De Dragon wrote:Redman wrote:When Caroline Seepersad Bachan said she was going to Cabinet to deal with all of these issues.....what happened?
Nothing, but a fairer comparison is what happened after JUHN Scarfy and Goebbels inserted themselves into the "negotiations" which is half of Pt. Lisas is now down, $300M has been spent on a no gas, 10% plant and the shut down of M4/M5. 7150 MTPD gone just like that, along with Nutrien's ,Yara's plants.
I don't recall these things happening after CSB's grandcharge.
Oh yeah the unitization coming "jess now"
These clowns of pastor Habit7 and Redman, they have never worked in industry. They sit and read articles from red government story tellers and then try to pass it on as gospel truth.Cantmis wrote:Lol non energy personnel explaining the oil and gas industry .
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