The Religion Discussion

[djaggs]

Incidentally, I dont know how many of you know that St Augustine who was one of the fathers of the Church, and considered one of the Church's greatest philosophers and theologians was an African man, and is considered to be the patron saint of brewers (yes beermakers). So i guess he must have been a pretty cool guy.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ Some big logic there!

[Habit7]

On the issue of possibility on life outside the Earth there are good argument for and against, I am not too sure where I lie.

I have preconceptions, I am a Christian. What I want you to admit that you have preconceptions too and that they are contradictory.

what is contradictory.

Because you emphatically stated, despite all the official views to contrary, that faith is belief in something, with a lack of evidence.

Yet you affirm that there is no empirical proof for aliens, but they possibly exist because there are good arguments for their existence. However when the question of is there a God and is He the God of the Bible, you state that there is no empirical proof, and all arguments for his existence are just musings of the blind faith that all religious people possess.

You are holding an alien amoeba, on a green rock, under a blue sun, that can only be observed on an approximate +1000 year return trip, at the speed of light, to a different standard than an all wise, all good, all intelligent being who is evidently the supernatural creator of our natural world.

You can't backpedal from this.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ show me some good arguments and I'll be emphatic to your cause too
isn't that what this thread is about anyway?

Your arguments so far are on par with AdamB, though I think your YEC beliefs knocks it down a notch... or two

[MG Man]

if this christian god so great, why did he need a whole six days to conjure up reality? and why did he need a day to rest?
And if according to djaggs post,it may signify ages, then worse yet...why not just snap his froody fingers and whizz everything into reality in an instant?
And another thing, if the book was writen for any average joe to read and understand, why is it so damn complex that there are things that only philosophers and scholars can decipher?
and yes, I ahve read the bible cover to cover, twice

[RBphoto]

Just stopped by to remind you guys that all religion is a fictional construct made by superstitious men to rule even more superstitious men...

Be calm and carry on.

[Daran]

On the issue of possibility on life outside the Earth there are good argument for and against, I am not too sure where I lie.

I have preconceptions, I am a Christian. What I want you to admit that you have preconceptions too and that they are contradictory.

what is contradictory.

Because you emphatically stated, despite all the official views to contrary, that faith is belief in something, with a lack of evidence.

Yet you affirm that there is no empirical proof for aliens, but they possibly exist because there are good arguments for their existence. However when the question of is there a God and is He the God of the Bible, you state that there is no empirical proof, and all arguments for his existence are just musings of the blind faith that all religious people possess.

You are holding an alien amoeba, on a green rock, under a blue sun, that can only be observed on an approximate +1000 year return trip, at the speed of light, to a different standard than an all wise, all good, all intelligent being who is evidently the supernatural creator of our natural world.

You can't backpedal from this.

How is backpedaling? It's clearly not at all the same thing.

You are arguing for the existence of the supernatural vs something in reality. You make as well argue for flying spaghetti monsters, unicorns, tooth fairies and Lord Hanuman.

You have absolutely zero physical evidence that this Bible story is real. Despite your Bible, you are on the same level as witch doctors and voodoo practitioners. How can you not see that?

[Habit7]

^ show me some good arguments and I'll be emphatic to your cause too
isn't that what this thread is about anyway?

Now you want good arguments? Before your standard for God existence was empirical proof.

no that's creation science. Your myopia is showing. Real science would not suggest a "He" unless there was empirical evidence, which there isn't.

What empirical evidence will warrant a proof in 'your view in which you interpret the world' for a creator being.

any empirical evidence will be proof.

asking me WHAT or which empirical evidence will suffice to ME as proof is demonstrating that you think there is some empirical evidence that I will have faith in and others that I wont. Empirical evidence IS proof, if there is proof then there is no need for faith.

So now good arguments are proof for something's existence, namely aliens? This is in direct contradiction to your view previously stated. I have no problem accepting that your standard has changed, I just want you to admit it for your ownself.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ show me some good arguments and I'll be emphatic to your cause too
isn't that what this thread is about anyway?

Now you want good arguments? Before your standard for God existence was empirical proof.

no that's creation science. Your myopia is showing. Real science would not suggest a "He" unless there was empirical evidence, which there isn't.

What empirical evidence will warrant a proof in 'your view in which you interpret the world' for a creator being.

any empirical evidence will be proof.

asking me WHAT or which empirical evidence will suffice to ME as proof is demonstrating that you think there is some empirical evidence that I will have faith in and others that I wont. Empirical evidence IS proof, if there is proof then there is no need for faith.

So now good arguments are proof for something's existence, namely aliens? This is in direct contradiction to your view previously stated. I have no problem accepting that your standard has changed, I just want you to admit it for your ownself.

are you tripping off?

I said there is no proof of aliens. There is empirical evidence of a vast number of planets that have the required criteria. At no point in time did I say there was empirical evidence of alien life!!!

This is the 3rd time I'm saying this!

[Habit7]

You have absolutely zero physical evidence that this Bible story is real.

You just went from asking basic Sunday School questions in ignorance about the Bible, to making a categorical statement that there is no physical evidence for the most verified book of antiquity.

I think you are obviously speaking out of emotion and not from knowledge.


BTW you found a source yet for your claim:

Extraterrestrial life has 99.999999999999% change of existing

[Habit7]

are you tripping off?

I said there is no proof of aliens. There is empirical evidence of a vast number of planets that have the required criteria. At no point in time did I say there was empirical evidence of alien life!!!

This is the 3rd time I'm saying this!

Where in my post am I saying you said that there is empirical proof for aliens?

It seems you are either not comprehending or sidestepping the issue.

[bluefete]

[bluefete]

are you tripping off?

I said there is no proof of aliens. There is empirical evidence of a vast number of planets that have the required criteria. At no point in time did I say there was empirical evidence of alien life!!!

The required criteria for what ? Alien life? Or the ability to support alien life? That presupposes that we already know that alien life exists. That is another guess by scientists.

By the way, why does Mars have a blue sky and NASA keeps telling us that it is red?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

are you tripping off?

I said there is no proof of aliens. There is empirical evidence of a vast number of planets that have the required criteria. At no point in time did I say there was empirical evidence of alien life!!!

This is the 3rd time I'm saying this!

Where in my post am I saying you said that there is empirical proof for aliens?

It seems you are either not comprehending or sidestepping the issue.

you seem to want me to admit something I am not saying.

[rocknrolla]

if this christian god so great, why did he need a whole six days to conjure up reality? and why did he need a day to rest?
And if according to djaggs post,it may signify ages, then worse yet...why not just snap his froody fingers and whizz everything into reality in an instant?
And another thing, if the book was writen for any average joe to read and understand, why is it so damn complex that there are things that only philosophers and scholars can decipher?
and yes, I ahve read the bible cover to cover, twice

u feel dis thread is school? do yuh own homework buddy. those who at least do some work might get help. u.. on ur own..and thas how u want it so dont study it. after u die, consciousness ends and its like u never existed. so go forth and achieve ur dream.

[Habit7]

you seem to want me to admit something I am not saying.

By your avoidance of the substantive issue I believe you are shouting what I want you to admit, but I think it is best if your articulate in your own writing.

[Sacchetto Boutique]

For those interested in learning about islam..

http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1.htm

The Quran on the Cerebrum:

God has said in the Quran about one of the evil unbelievers who forbade the Prophet Muhammad from praying at the Kaaba:

No! If he does not stop, We will take him by the naseyah (front of the head), a lying, sinful naseyah (front of the head)! (Quran, 96:15-16)

Why did the Quran describe the front of the head as being lying and sinful? Why didn’t the Quran say that the person was lying and sinful? What is the relationship between the front of the head and lying and sinfulness?

If we look into the skull at the front of the head, we will find the prefrontal area of the cerebrum (see figure 12). What does physiology tell us about the function of this area? A book entitled Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology says about this area, “The motivation and the foresight to plan and initiate movements occur in the anterior portion of the frontal lobes, the prefrontal area. This is a region of association cortex...” Also the book says, “In relation to its involvement in motivation, the prefrontal area is also thought to be the functional center for aggression....”

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-d-img1-big.htm
Functional regions of the left hemisphere of the cerebral cortex. The prefrontal area is located at the front of the cerebral cortex. (Essentials of Anatomy & Physiology, Seeley and others, p. 210.)

So, this area of the cerebrum is responsible for planning, motivating, and initiating good and sinful behavior and is responsible for the telling of lies and the speaking of truth. Thus, it is proper to describe the front of the head as lying and sinful when someone lies or commits a sin, as the Quran has said, “...A lying, sinful naseyah (front of the head)!”

Scientists have only discovered these functions of the prefrontal area in the last sixty years, according to Professor Keith L. Moore


The Quran on the Origin of the Universe:

The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of ‘smoke’ (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition).1 This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology. Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that ‘smoke’

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-c-img1.jpg
A new star forming out of a cloud of gas and dust (nebula), which is one of the remnants of the ‘smoke’ that was the origin of the whole universe. (The Space Atlas, Heather and Henbest, p. 50.)

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-c-img2-big.htm
The Lagoon nebula is a cloud of gas and dust, about 60 light years in diameter. It is excited by the ultraviolet radiation of the hot stars that have recently formed within its bulk. (Horizons, Exploring the Universe, Seeds, plate 9, from Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy, Inc.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that ‘smoke’ material. God has said in the Quran:

Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke... (Quran, 41:11)

Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran:

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?... (Quran, 21:30)

Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists. He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. He said: “Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case.” Also he said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin.”

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

you seem to want me to admit something I am not saying.

By your avoidance of the substantive issue I believe you are shouting what I want you to admit, but I think it is best if your articulate in your own writing.

I really don't know what you want. Do you know what you want?

I am not avoiding anything. If you still don't understand what I said then feel free to re-read what I posted earlier.

[Daran]

You have absolutely zero physical evidence that this Bible story is real.

You just went from asking basic Sunday School questions in ignorance about the Bible, to making a categorical statement that there is no physical evidence for the most verified book of antiquity.

I think you are obviously speaking out of emotion and not from knowledge.


BTW you found a source yet for your claim:

Extraterrestrial life has 99.999999999999% change of existing

I don't need a source for that statement. I am saying the probability of aliens existing is simply very very high. There's a vast number of planets in our Galaxy alone that can support earth base life. And who is to say life can't develop in different environments. Always remember,

"Life finds a way"

As for your Bible, I was referring to its lies and folktales about God and Jesus (there is doubt that even existed). Some of the Historical accounts in the bible may be accurate, but there are tones of fairy tales like Adam and Eve or Noah's Ark that are just plain BS.

Not to mention the countless contradictions. So explain to me, how this human made book stands up?

http://www.religionisbullshit.net/articles/contradictions.php

[Daran]

For those interested in learning about islam..

Sacchetto Boutique, No thank you we are bashing Christians right now. Please wait your turn.

[bluefete]

For those interested in learning about islam..

Sacchetto Boutique, No thank you we are bashing Christians right now. Please wait your turn.

Daran ????

[bluefete]

People Who Should Have Stayed In School

This teacher who is telling children that our ancestors lived with the dinosaurs.


Interesting questions and answers though.

[RBphoto]

For those interested in learning about islam..

Sacchetto Boutique, No thank you we are bashing Christians right now. Please wait your turn.

We can start back on Islam yunno....

[Habit7]

So you are saying there are contradictions in the Bible but within a couple hours you said:

You have absolutely zero physical evidence that this Bible story is real.

then

Some of the Historical accounts in the bible may be accurate

I know that you will excuse this obvious contradiction with some justification. But could it be there is a plausible explanation for the apparent contradictions you believe are in the Bible? It was just a couple pages ago I showed you how God's justice is reconciled with His mercy, even though you held it up as contradictory.

It seems that in your attempt to "bash Christians" you are just appearing to be angry and your logic is tripping over itself.

[MG Man]

if this christian god so great, why did he need a whole six days to conjure up reality? and why did he need a day to rest?
And if according to djaggs post,it may signify ages, then worse yet...why not just snap his froody fingers and whizz everything into reality in an instant?
And another thing, if the book was writen for any average joe to read and understand, why is it so damn complex that there are things that only philosophers and scholars can decipher?
and yes, I ahve read the bible cover to cover, twice

u feel dis thread is school? do yuh own homework buddy. those who at least do some work might get help. u.. on ur own..and thas how u want it so dont study it. after u die, consciousness ends and its like u never existed. so go forth and achieve ur dream.

school you say?
You mean the place where they learn you to rite correk?

[rocknrolla]

if this christian god so great, why did he need a whole six days to conjure up reality? and why did he need a day to rest?
And if according to djaggs post,it may signify ages, then worse yet...why not just snap his froody fingers and whizz everything into reality in an instant?
And another thing, if the book was writen for any average joe to read and understand, why is it so damn complex that there are things that only philosophers and scholars can decipher?
and yes, I ahve read the bible cover to cover, twice

u feel dis thread is school? do yuh own homework buddy. those who at least do some work might get help. u.. on ur own..and thas how u want it so dont study it. after u die, consciousness ends and its like u never existed. so go forth and achieve ur dream.

school you say?
You mean the place where they learn you to rite correk?

aaa aaaa look yuh learning how to speak hebrew. there may be hope for u yet.:ugeek:

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

People Who Should Have Stayed In School

This teacher who is telling children that our ancestors lived with the dinosaurs.


Interesting questions and answers though.

Habit7 was the teacher??

[AdamB]

For those interested in learning about islam..

Sacchetto Boutique, No thank you we are bashing Christians right now. Please wait your turn.

Daran ????

Daran and company in Sunday school??? LOL Look what this thread has come to...

[AdamB]

For those interested in learning about islam..

Sacchetto Boutique, No thank you we are bashing Christians right now. Please wait your turn.

We can start back on Islam yunno....

Good luck with that. For Crossdrilled tho, bashing begins at home. Cheers!

[bluefete]

Silly woman. But if her son had died the first person she would blame is God.

The embarrassing moment Wolf Blitzer asks mother if she thanked the Lord for surviving tornado... and she tells him she's an atheist

By Daily Mail Reporter

PUBLISHED: 05:15 GMT, 23 May 2013 | UPDATED: 12:46 GMT, 23 May 2013

Times of stress and hardship often turn non-religious people into believers.

But one Moore, Oklahoma resident refused to thank to Lord for surviving the gigantic tornado that pulverized her suburb on Monday, making for an extremely awkward TV interview.

Embarrassing: In a clip going viral on the internet, CNN's Blitzer asks survivor Rebecca Vitsmun: 'I guess you got to thank the Lord. Right?' After an uncomfortable pause, Vitsmun replies: 'I... I'm actually an atheist.'

In a clip going viral on the internet, CNN's Wolf Blitzer stands in front of mountains of debris and says to survivor Rebecca Vitsmun: 'We're happy you're here. You guys did a great job. I guess you got to thank the Lord. Right?'

The young mom initially says 'yeah,' looking awkwardly at her feet, but Blitzer presses her.

'Did you thank the Lord for that split-second decision?' he says, as Vitsmun cradles her 19-month-old son, Anders.

After an uncomfortable pause, Vitsmun replies: 'I... I'm actually an atheist' and then laughs awkwardly.

Clearly taken aback, Blitzer, also laughing, scrambles to recover.

'You are. All right,' he says. 'But you made the right call.'

Humbly, Vitsmun responds: 'Yeah. We are here. And you know, I don't blame anybody for thanking the Lord.'

Critics took to Twitter to blast Blitzer for the blunder, while others rallied for Vitsmun as an advocate for atheists the world over.

'I wonder if that atheist interviewed by Wolf Blitzer knows that she's a Twitter hero?' user Ozark Atheist tweeted.

Vitsmun narrowly survived the tornado by fleeing her home moments before it struck, with her baby in tow. In the days after the storm, she and her husband, Brian, began picking through the remains of their devastated property.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z2UANlEypn
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook