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Hard Times @ Point Lisas

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jhonnieblue
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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby jhonnieblue » May 6th, 2020, 2:39 pm

Ure very misinformed, 04 is the newest plant there lol
02 has been giving issues since the EIP project/ shutdown and is running extremely inefficient right now. Makes sense taking down your most inefficient plant

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby De Dragon » May 6th, 2020, 2:42 pm

jhonnieblue wrote:Ure very misinformed, 04 is the newest plant there lol
02 has been giving issues since the EIP project/ shutdown and is running extremely inefficient right now. Makes sense taking down your most inefficient plant

Sorry for the typo, I meant 03. Thanks for the info about 02 though.

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby demented » May 6th, 2020, 3:03 pm

De Dragon wrote:
jhonnieblue wrote:It's just market conditions and inefficiency with the 02 plant. Nothing abnormal for the site. Surprised it made news. They do it on the urea plant all the time. Plant was down for six months already and never made news.
Had nothing to do with the merger
Cantmis wrote:5 years after the merger, chop chop!

Why O2 though? O4 is the oldest plant they have. Unless they are using the downtime to have a shutdown.


Probably the reason. Makes sense to shutdown when market is low and perform repairs where necessary. IPSL/PROMAN also shut down two of their plants in the last couple weeks (M3 and M4). Repair works were done or being carried out and the plants will remain offline until the market for methanol "catches up again". Only M2 and M5 are online at the moment.

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby PapaC » May 6th, 2020, 7:57 pm

How much years ago was the UREA plant down for six months?


jhonnieblue wrote:It's just market conditions and inefficiency with the 02 plant. Nothing abnormal for the site. Surprised it made news. They do it on the urea plant all the time. Plant was down for six months already and never made news.
Had nothing to do with the merger
Cantmis wrote:5 years after the merger, chop chop!

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby The_Honourable » May 7th, 2020, 1:59 pm

Crisis in petrochemical sector

There is now a full-blown crisis in the local petrochemical sector, with four plants shut down in four months and word that more could be taken out of operation as the sector reels under low commodity prices and the high cost of natural gas in T&T.

Yesterday, the largest methanol producer in the country and one of the largest in the world, Proman, announced that it had already suspended operations in one of its plants in T&T and more would be shut down if the situation remains the same.

“While we have been working hard to manage these conditions and protect our business and our employees, the combined pressures of the global downturn and a high natural gas pricing environment in Trinidad and Tobago has created significant challenges that will impact the entire value chain,” a release from Proman said.

“Our M3 plant has been idled since mid-April, with further potential shutdowns in the weeks ahead if the situation remains unchanged.”

The company has joined with the rest of the Point Lisas operators proposing Government temporarily reduce the price they are paying for natural gas in order to keep the industry going.

The Proman release said: “Together with other downstream producers, we are working closely with NGC and GORTT, via the Roadmap to Recovery Committee, to try to secure the critical short-term relief pricing measures required to stabilise the sector.”

The shutdown of the four plants is already costing Government an estimated US$1.3 million a day in revenue and the National Gas Company has lost consumers for 15 per cent of the gas used on the estate, or almost quarter of a billion standard cubic feet of gas a day.

NGC chairman Conrad Enill yesterday told Guardian Media he did not know if they would be stuck with paying the bill for not taking the gas but acknowledged this was a major concern. He said the state company was hurting financially and acknowledged it even tried to re-negotiate its gas contracts with the upstream companies, but while doing so the COVID-19 pandemic had made it all but impossible to find a solution.

“COVID-19 has not helped us in any way; it has, in fact, created some additional challenges that we didn’t see before. The biggest issue here is the price issue and it is bad and on the NGC side we have been looking at some negotiations, renegotiations, and even all of that is not sufficient to deal with the decline on the price side. There are other things we are looking at as well but it is gonna take time,” Enil said.

To understand how T&T got here there are a number of things that have happened.

The price for a metric tonne of methanol has fallen in the last year from US$300 in the American market and US$340 in the Chinese market to US$180 in the American market and US$160 in the Asian market. In terms of ammonia, the prices have been weak for the last year and has declined from US$200 per metric tonne to US$180.

When one considers that T&T is selling most of its products into the Chinese market and one is paying almost US$60 per metric tonne for freight, the plants are essentially earning on average US$120 per metric tonne, with a break-even position of US$250 per metric tonne. In other words, they are earning half what it costs to produce the product. Added to that, T&T’s cost for natural gas is one of the highest among world petrochemical producers and there is risk to continuing in business.

It is for this same reason that on Monday, Nutrien decided to shut down one of its plants and Methanex also mothballed one of its plants last month.

Renegotiations not going well

NGC chairman Conrad Enill yesterday admitted that it is a difficult because the NGC’s business is dependent mainly on buying gas from upstream producers like BPTT and Shell and selling gas to downstream users like Proman and Nutrien.

He told Guardian Media that while he has tried to re-negotiate contracts with the upstream companies, there have also been some challenges with them wanting things in return that were outside of NGC’s remit.

“There have been but other matters that they want negotiated that were outside of the NGC remit, so, for example, things that are being handled at the level of the Government and things government meet on an ongoing basis to discuss, those issues are being dealt with at that level, but on the NGC side, I think we are doing the best we can and I believe we have reached the stage where whatever we would have gained, I think we are at that stage of this is what it is,” Enill lamented.

He added: “Well, we have been looking at the situation. What we have seen is the global price issue is affecting everybody and companies are taking global positions as a result of that. “Nobody is looking at Trinidad, everybody is looking globally as to where they can go and unfortunately in most of the jurisdictions, the prices are bad and so companies are looking at this point in time to plant maintenance to do and reduction in activity until such time they have a clearer view as to what the future holds and that is the same for everybody.”

Proman also said yesterday it is looking to unlock substantial planned investment in the form of plant turnarounds.

The company noted: “Given the turbulence in global oil and commodity prices and the importance of the energy sector to the national economy, collaboration across the whole value chain will be vital to weather this crisis, and ensure the continued contribution of Point Lisas during this critical period for our country.”

It said globally, the impact of COVID-19 has resulted in a significant decline in both demand and pricing for petrochemical products and it does not expect its decision to shut a plant to have any immediate impact on its employee headcount.

Enill also insisted that unless there is a rebalancing in global prices, he does not see a way forward at current prices and companies will have to take action to do work on their plants and wait it out.

Asked if this would not significantly hurt the NGC and if it will lead to it going to Government for a bailout, Enill said the company had enough cash on hand at this point in time.

“But absolutely, it is also a hit on everybody else’s bottom line so NGC is operating inside of that sector and so yes NGC is going to be affected by commodity prices and the returns it can get from the business itself. Absolutely! I think the group and the basis of the group consolidations and group efforts, we are going to be able for some time to still continue to operate and manage the resources without having to go to the Government, any of those things yet.”

Source: http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/crisis-i ... ccf9d1214d

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby Cantmis » May 7th, 2020, 2:16 pm

Cant compete with the US

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby The_Honourable » May 21st, 2020, 7:36 pm

Another MHTL methanol plant goes into idle

Current market prices and a lower demand for methanol has forced the temporary shutdown of another plant operated by Methanol Holdings (Trinidad) Limited.

The company’s M2 plant, part of the Proman group, has a production capacity of 525,000 metric tons but has now gone into idle.

Proman, via a media release, says this follows a similar decision with its M3 plant while went into idle in April.

It notes that the plant will remain idle until conditions are more favourable but assures that it does not expect the decision to impact on its employee headcount at this time.

https://www.103fm.tt/news/another-mhtl- ... into-idle/

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby Numb3r4 » May 21st, 2020, 8:53 pm

Should just change the title of this thread to Hard Times All Around.

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby Hwells » May 21st, 2020, 9:11 pm

Me : Study's hard to get eng degree.
Other people: Use links to get job.
Me: Aint feeling sorry for you now.

I know it's tough times but you ain't got no God given right to have the same job for the rest of your life.
Adapt and survive , cry and you die?

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby gastly369 » May 22nd, 2020, 1:07 am

Lolwhut

*inserts wheelbarrow

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby Numb3r4 » May 22nd, 2020, 8:30 pm

I think he's referring to the fact that older workers or those "with links" got through thinking it was a smooth ride to job security, and are now subject to the same unemployment or hard ship at last, as he is with his degree.

I guess.

He may be trying to express the feeling of society going back on the promise of a good life, which his generation of young workers felt particularly hard, with no remorse from society, so now that it is happening to other older workers and those who were spared by their "links" he delights in it or at least has no problem rubbing it in their downfall.

I think....it is a common sentiment I've experience amongst younger workers and workers who have felt that they have been dis-advantaged by the "system".

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby alfa » May 22nd, 2020, 8:56 pm

Having a degree is admirable and all fine and good but how many of these young engineers will eagerly go look for a sky hook first day on the job if told to do so? More than you might think. Links or no links don't be so quick to knock the older guys who actually know what they are doing and had the estate running and profitable for decades

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby De Dragon » May 23rd, 2020, 10:04 am

alfa wrote:Having a degree is admirable and all fine and good but how many of these young engineers will eagerly go look for a sky hook first day on the job if told to do so? More than you might think. Links or no links don't be so quick to knock the older guys who actually know what they are doing and had the estate running and profitable for decades

My experience is generally younger guys with a degree have a chip on their shoulder being ordered around and disciplined by older guys with diplomas, or even CXC alone. The Estate has a saying "degrees don't turn valves" :lol: :lol:

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby zoom rader » May 23rd, 2020, 10:24 am

De Dragon wrote:
alfa wrote:Having a degree is admirable and all fine and good but how many of these young engineers will eagerly go look for a sky hook first day on the job if told to do so? More than you might think. Links or no links don't be so quick to knock the older guys who actually know what they are doing and had the estate running and profitable for decades

My experience is generally younger guys with a degree have a chip on their shoulder being ordered around and disciplined by older guys with diplomas, or even CXC alone. The Estate has a saying "degrees don't turn valves"
Dragon I worked years in Pt and the degree guys are paper pushers and do mostly management. They don't engineer anything. They normally consult overseas for engineering advice at a cost. Most upgrades or new kits are contracted out.

What use to pissed me off is the same advice the techs use to give is shunt off which was free but they prefer some engineering firm to give the same advice at a cost.

I can't blame the young degrees cause that's what the company pushes for and treats them.

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby De Dragon » May 23rd, 2020, 12:21 pm

zoom rader wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
alfa wrote:Having a degree is admirable and all fine and good but how many of these young engineers will eagerly go look for a sky hook first day on the job if told to do so? More than you might think. Links or no links don't be so quick to knock the older guys who actually know what they are doing and had the estate running and profitable for decades

My experience is generally younger guys with a degree have a chip on their shoulder being ordered around and disciplined by older guys with diplomas, or even CXC alone. The Estate has a saying "degrees don't turn valves"
Dragon I worked years in Pt and the degree guys are paper pushers and do mostly management. They don't engineer anything. They normally consult overseas for engineering advice at a cost. Most upgrades or new kits are contracted out.

What use to pissed me off is the same advice the techs use to give is shunt off which was free but they prefer some engineering firm to give the same advice at a cost.

I can't blame the young degrees cause that's what the company pushes for and treats them.

Don't get me wrong, there are many who are willing to learn and follow experienced, but lesser educated guys, but sadly, a lot of them have entitlement and authority issues. The" I went UWI yunno, what yuh telling me about!" types :roll:

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby Cantmis » May 23rd, 2020, 1:14 pm

Engineers who were techs first are always better than out off university ones, they have common sense.

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby Lou Screuz » May 23rd, 2020, 1:35 pm

zoom rader wrote:
De Dragon wrote:
alfa wrote:Having a degree is admirable and all fine and good but how many of these young engineers will eagerly go look for a sky hook first day on the job if told to do so? More than you might think. Links or no links don't be so quick to knock the older guys who actually know what they are doing and had the estate running and profitable for decades

My experience is generally younger guys with a degree have a chip on their shoulder being ordered around and disciplined by older guys with diplomas, or even CXC alone. The Estate has a saying "degrees don't turn valves"
Dragon I worked years in Pt and the degree guys are paper pushers and do mostly management. They don't engineer anything. They normally consult overseas for engineering advice at a cost. Most upgrades or new kits are contracted out.

What use to pissed me off is the same advice the techs use to give is shunt off which was free but they prefer some engineering firm to give the same advice at a cost.

I can't blame the young degrees cause that's what the company pushes for and treats them.


It makes me wonder if the majority of (engineering and many other fields) graduates in this country and region
only graduated because of the Copy , Paste , and Change Font function
and documents being leaked to a certain hall
and mammie and daddie hiring people to do assignment and tutorials
and then fren and dem copying those assignments and tutorials
and sharing that with more fren next year
and last minute cram down of things they do not understand

and what the lecturers does be doing with the youth and them time ?

i jes asking questions

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby Hwells » May 28th, 2020, 1:21 am

Not at all. Was referring to people who get through to work in these companies because their family or somebody they know working inside there.
These people çould cry me a river.
Men who know their craft and willing to teach I have no problem learning from.

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby The_Honourable » June 21st, 2020, 11:21 am

Another ammonia plant shuts down

Former energy minister Kevin Ramnarine has called for urgent action to be taken at Point Lisas Industrial Estate to prevent it from crashing and causing a major energy and economic crisis in TT.

His comments came after another Nutrien plant was shuttered in a little over one month and will continue to remain down amid declines in the global market price of ammonia.

The plant located on the Point Lisas Industrial Estate was initially shut down on June 12 for maintenance work to be carried out. The work has been completed but the plant will remain down for another 14 days.

Nutrien Trinidad managing director Ian Welsh confirmed on Friday that they are monitoring the global market price of ammonia and this will determine the company’s next move. He added that this development will have no effect on its current workforce. Last month, PCS 02 was also shuttered due to economic challenges.

Ramnarine on Friday said this latest development is a cause for concern as this was the fifth plant to be shut down or idled in the past six months.

He said a recent statement made by Energy Minister Franklin Khan in Parliament to re-visit agreements with the National Gas Company (NGC) and its upstream suppliers showed something is not right.

He said, “His admission showed that something went fundamentally wrong back in 2017 because the price of natural gas that these plants now have to pay to the NGC has significantly increased in the last 18 months.

“This is a consequence of no agreement between the NGC and its upstream suppliers. We are now seeing the impact of those negotiations manifesting itself in a weakening of Point Lisas.”

Ramnarine added that more plants will eventually be taken down if Government refuses to address the cost of producing ammonia and methanol.

He said, “When these plants close there will to be consequences for employment. Even if the plants can hold their permanent staff together, there are always going to be consequences for contractors and energy service companies.

“As a result of Government’s flawed contracts, Nurtrien’s reaction to the low ammonia prices and the high cost that they are paying for natural gas, now renders their operations unprofitable.

“We now have to wait and see if they will re-start the plant. The other plants that have been idled have been down for months.”

A recent International Commodity Information Service (ICIS) report said price would remain "bearish" in June, quoting a US$218 per tonne estimate. Prices are falling due to an oversupply, and ICIS said that " only Nutrien, to date, has announced capacity cuts in response to the significant surplus volume."

"The Canadian major's decision to remove 50,000 tonnes/month of export volume from Trinidad came shortly before Ukrainian producers switched their attention to foreign sales amid cheaper natural gas prices," icis.com reported.

Source: https://newsday.co.tt/2020/06/21/anothe ... huts-down/

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby zoom rader » June 21st, 2020, 11:45 am

^^^ Banana republic 101 .

Lord help all those doing Tech certs and Engineering.

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby antlind » June 21st, 2020, 12:31 pm

zoom rader wrote:^^^ Banana republic 101 .

Lord help all those doing Tech certs and Engineering.


As usual, Franklyn Khan is silent and oblivious to what is happening. The energy sector in this country had crumbled to dust under the PNM. This government under Rowley will do to the energy sector what it did to Caroni under Manning’s watch.

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby matr1x » June 21st, 2020, 3:53 pm

Well you wanted Mugabe.....take Mugabe

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby The_Honourable » July 4th, 2020, 1:36 am

Yara closes second ammonia plant in Trinidad

Image

The local ammonia sector continues to reel under a slump in international prices as another plant at the Point Lisas Industrial Estate will be shuttered this month.

As of July 7, the Tringen I plant will stop producing ammonia "due to current market conditions", Tringen's parent company Yara International announced in a statement on Friday. While the plant is down, planned maintenance will be done by employees, the company said. This is the second plant in Trinidad to be closed by the Norwegian group.

"The COVID-19 global crisis has put ammonia markets under significant pressure due to a reduction in industrial ammonia demand. The competitiveness of ammonia produced by Tringen has also been impacted due to a fall in natural gas prices paid by competing ammonia producers in major markets," Yara said.

Tringen I has a production capacity of an estimated 500,000 tonnes per year.

"The plant will resume operations at the earliest possible time when market conditions are supportive."

The company did not say what will be the fate of its third ammonia plant Tringen II.

Last December 31, Yara shut down Yara Trinidad, the smallest of the three plants it operates in Pt Lisas. The other two are Tringen I and Tringen II which Yara jointly owns with National Enterprises Ltd, TT's investment holdings company.

On November 13, Yara had announced a fall in profits and failed negotiations on gas supplies with the National Gas Co (NGC) were keys reasons for the closure of Yara Trinidad.

At the time, the company and the Oilfield Workers Trade Union were in discussion on separation packages for affected workers.

In response then, the NGC assured it would maintain gas supplies to customers. NGC had said the Yara plant contributed five per cent of ammonia production with an annual output of 270,000 tonnes.

NGC said it also felt the effects of the volatile local and global energy industries.

Just last month, another ammonia producer, Nutrien shuttered its plant which it said would remain down amid the price slump.

The plant was initially shut down on June 12 for maintenance work, however, when this was completed it remained closed for another 14 days.

Nutrien Trinidad said then it was monitoring the global market price of ammonia to determine its next move. In May, PCS 02 was also shuttered due to economic challenges.

A recent International Commodity Information Service (ICIS) report said ammonia prices would remain "bearish" in June, quoting a US$218 per tonne estimate. Prices are falling due to an oversupply, stated ICIS.

Source: http://newsday.co.tt/2020/07/03/yara-cl ... -trinidad/

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » April 3rd, 2021, 3:43 pm

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Re: Hard Times @ Point Lisas

Postby sMASH » April 3rd, 2021, 4:43 pm

'redistribution', men on the other cheds saying it have no redistribution. cause leffff fooot, rittttte foooot. k. ram dont know what he talking bout there in that post.

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