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WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: May 31st, 2019, 5:46 am
by onyx
Anyone knows what could be causin a hard start( long crank time) in the toyota altis when its warm?

If I park up and come back in an hour it doesnt start on the first turn.. but on the second turn it does.

I changed the spark plugs to NGK Iridium, checked the injectors and no leaking injectors were found, chwcked the battery and it was good, checkedthe coil packs and they were good..

I am thinking the fuel filter..


Any suggestions?

Thanks

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: May 31st, 2019, 5:37 pm
by toyolink
Most frequent reasons are fuel pump failing, fuel pump strainer and filter needs changing or less frequently fuel pressure regulator failing.
The problem maybe that the fuel delivery system has lost its ability to hold delivery pressures and is a precursor to fuel delivery break-down.
You may find your first start in the morning or long periods whilst parked requires more cranking than normal and when operating during the day things get a little better.

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: May 31st, 2019, 5:48 pm
by onyx
The first start in the morning is good.. one crank and it starts however after I leave the car for about an hour or two.. when the engine is still warm it starts on the second crank.

I disconnected te injector rail while leaving the electrical connection on and turned the iginition key to on and left it for a few minutes and no drip leaks.. one injector looked a bit wet.. not dry as the other 3.. could this be a leak?

Also I am thinking if the fuel filter and pressure regulator were defective I would get a hard start in the mornining.. but this doesnt happen... only when the engine is warm(after it starts and left for an hour or two).

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 13th, 2019, 12:32 pm
by make meh care
maybe your cranksensor going. mine was doing that for a while and i changed it and no problems

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 15th, 2019, 4:32 am
by ramishrrr
This is a problem that I am living with for almost 4 years with my Fielder.
On mornings.......one crank and the engine starts.
Once the engine is hot, and was left off for about 10-15 minutes, it takes 2 or 3 cranks to start.
If you switch off, then immediately re-start, no problem.
Once the engine is running, you have no problems at all. You can drive from Cedros to Toco, reach limiter speed if you want !

I have done diagnostic more than once..........no error code.
Fuel pressure test...........ok.
Renewed coolant temperature sensor.......same problem.
I even renewed the injectors last year.............same problem.
So, at this age, I have given up. Nobody seem to be able to solve this problem. It is just that every two years, I service my starter...............that is a lot easier.
Peace.
RR.

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 15th, 2019, 11:28 am
by wagonrunner
do you got to the start position on the tumbler as soon as the key is inserted?
on an older car, i normally wait till i hear the fuel pump stop after pressurizing the line, then start.

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 16th, 2019, 5:36 pm
by ramishrrr
Tried that too.
Even renewing the in-tank fuel pump,
Peace.
RR.

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 16th, 2019, 6:06 pm
by kamakazi
I am unsure what your mean when you say one crank, more than one crank.

Are you referring to having to turn the key in the ignition to the start position as a crank; where two cranks would mean turning the key to the start position in the ignition switch twice

Or are you referring to the sound the engine makes while the key is in the start position as the starter moves the crankshaft as a crank; so it just takes longer to start after the vehicle is warm but you only turn the key to the start position in the ignition switch once

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 17th, 2019, 7:08 pm
by ramishrrr
ok kamikaze.
Let me see if I can simplify this.
Use the phrase " ATTEMPT TO START THE ENGINE BY TURNING THE KEY TO START POSITION AND HEARING THE ENGINE TURN OVER" instead of the word "crank" in my previous post.
Maybe you can solve the issue.
Peace.
RR.

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 18th, 2019, 1:00 pm
by kamakazi
That could be a whole lot
Some sensor that could be adversely affected by heat; air temp, throttle position, idle air control valve.
Fuel filter
Damaged wires going to the coil packs
Also not a fan of iridium plugs; they just never worked well for me. I just use plain old copper plugs

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 19th, 2019, 8:51 am
by onyx
Update: Issue fixed.
I changed the entire assembly in the gas tank ( foreign used) and it was fixed immediately.

Seems as though the pressure regulator inside of the assembly was faulty.. signs of this were:
1. Didnt hear any hissing sound when opening the gas tank cover
2. When the fuel level was low the car felt sluggish while accelerating, but just after filling the gas and the liquid level increased the acceleration was better .

One of the reasons why I think this failed was because i had a hole in the pipe near the gas tank cover for some time before I found it and changed it. You guys should check this as its under a shield and not visible.

Can now starts on one turn.

I hope this helps!

One more thing:

I changed the entire injector railing using injectors from the NZE 121(green colour), these have more holes in the tip as compared to the ones on the original altis(grey colour)... could this cause any issue?
Also, does the fuel rail have any internal pressure valves or is it hollow? As I noticed between the two injectors on the rail there is a circular crimped sort of thing ( see picture attached), What is this?
inCollage_20190619_084817793.jpeg
inCollage_20190619_084817793.jpeg (21.07 KiB) Viewed 4299 times

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 19th, 2019, 6:38 pm
by adnj
onyx wrote:Update: Issue fixed.
I changed the entire assembly in the gas tank ( foreign used) and it was fixed immediately.

Seems as though the pressure regulator inside of the assembly was faulty.. signs of this were:
1. Didnt hear any hissing sound when opening the gas tank cover
2. When the fuel level was low the car felt sluggish while accelerating, but just after filling the gas and the liquid level increased the acceleration was better .

One of the reasons why I think this failed was because i had a hole in the pipe near the gas tank cover for some time before I found it and changed it. You guys should check this as its under a shield and not visible.

Can now starts on one turn.

I hope this helps!

One more thing:

I changed the entire injector railing using injectors from the NZE 121(green colour), these have more holes in the tip as compared to the ones on the original altis(grey colour)... could this cause any issue?
Also, does the fuel rail have any internal pressure valves or is it hollow? As I noticed between the two injectors on the rail there is a circular crimped sort of thing ( see picture attached), What is this?
inCollage_20190619_084817793.jpeg
That looks like a pulsation damper.

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 19th, 2019, 6:56 pm
by Dave
Nze models with the 1zfe has an issue with the seals in the in tank system of pump and regulator. Car shuts down, starting issues etc.
May not necessarily be for that engine but that set up with pump and regulator in tank.

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: June 30th, 2019, 8:28 am
by ramishrrr
Onyx,
I did some checking, and saw that in the assembly fitted in the gas tank, there is a regulator. Because my car has the 2ZZGE engine, the Toyota part number is 23280-22010. On Amazon it is US$50.53.
There are lots of aftermarket brands as low as US$6.10. It looks pretty simple, and possibly the O-ring goes bad.
I will talk to my mechanic.
Peace.
RR.

Re: WTK -Hard starting when engine is warm

Posted: October 3rd, 2019, 9:09 am
by make meh care
ramishrrr wrote:Onyx,
I did some checking, and saw that in the assembly fitted in the gas tank, there is a regulator. Because my car has the 2ZZGE engine, the Toyota part number is 23280-22010. On Amazon it is US$50.53.
There are lots of aftermarket brands as low as US$6.10. It looks pretty simple, and possibly the O-ring goes bad.
I will talk to my mechanic.
Peace.
RR.

I like how you does introduce your 2ZZGE bro !!!!