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Subwoofer for small space?

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Subwoofer for small space?

Postby DJ Q » November 13th, 2018, 7:57 am

Hi all,

I'm looking for a subwoofer for my Prius
I want it to fit on the driver's side in the trunk, above the battery.
Based on my online search, it's about 0.6 cu ft. available.
Expecting to power it with 3-500 RMS
Hoping for something ported and that can go low.
Not a gallery/"hard pong" system.

Here's what the trunk looks like:
Image
I want to use that corner space there.

I currently am in possession of an Image Dynamics ID 12 (currently for sale), whose specs won't allow me to use it there.
I also have an Elemental Designs 7kv.2 but I'm not sure if it'll meet my satisfaction with it's 150 RMS limit.

I'm seeing the RE SE 10" as a decent fit and it also has a nice low fs.

It's my first fiberglass project, so i'm looking forward to hearing from you all.

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby casper » November 13th, 2018, 9:06 am

sundown sd 8"

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby kavaninho » November 13th, 2018, 9:18 am

ID10 loves small sealed enclosures and dont need much power to get going.

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby kavaninho » November 13th, 2018, 9:19 am

JL audio 10W3 is a vibe tooo

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby Rovin » November 13th, 2018, 10:43 am

u will be hard pressed to find a sub that works well in such a small cuft especially if u want it ported & like lows

agreed with JL which is 1 of d very few for small enclosures


like i said on here a dozen times b4 : model subs on a program b4 u buy ...

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby DJ Q » November 13th, 2018, 1:41 pm

Rovin's Audio wrote:model subs on a program b4 u buy ...

Agree with this 1000%

Is Sound and Security Valpark the best place to check for the JL?

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby roger » November 13th, 2018, 4:42 pm

I'd stay with the ID sub tbh

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby SR » November 13th, 2018, 7:29 pm

Sound and security are the authorised dealors for jl audio

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby DJ Q » November 14th, 2018, 8:52 am

roger wrote:I'd stay with the ID sub tbh

I don't mind doing that but the 0.6 cu ft is way below the recommended 1.0 for the sub.
You think I should give it a shot?

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby kavaninho » November 14th, 2018, 12:32 pm

try the 0.6 stuffed with dacron and the ID12 in a knock up mdf box and listen to it
Sealed subs dont usually be fussy about vol.
Model it and compare the differences between the 1cuft and the 0.6cuft.
iirc reducing the vol of a sealed sub increases Quality Factor, however, adding dacron decreases the Quality Factor. See if you can find a trade off.

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby X_Factor » November 14th, 2018, 1:50 pm

smaller sealed will have a higher f3 point compared to a larger sealed as well as a larger sealed will have a little more spl in the lower regions
around that space, the average 10 inch will be 45hz and up but nothing a lil eq cannot help

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby DJ Q » November 14th, 2018, 2:17 pm

Ok thanks for the info all.
I think I'll try the ID and see how it goes.

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby Rovin » November 14th, 2018, 3:46 pm

kavaninho wrote:try the 0.6 stuffed with dacron and the ID12 in a knock up mdf box and listen to it.



excellent idea here :!:

it be a shame & serious frustration to go thru all d FG work to realize it sounds like toots when u done ... :lol:

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby X_Factor » November 14th, 2018, 4:23 pm

ID recommends .8 as the smallest for the 12
.6 with 1/2lb polyfill will barely trick the sub it is in .8
not to mention the sub displacement of around .05ish and bracing if any

i would focus on a 10 in a better sized enclosure

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby SR » November 14th, 2018, 5:08 pm

How does dacron decrease sound quality??

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby SR » November 14th, 2018, 7:18 pm

My mistake mixed it up for polyfill

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby Ted_v2 » November 14th, 2018, 8:48 pm

put a piece of wood inside the box u already have to drop the size

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby kavaninho » November 14th, 2018, 8:55 pm

Ted_v2 wrote:put a piece of wood inside the box u already have to drop the size

Look how easy OP win at this..lol

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby DJ Q » November 15th, 2018, 7:36 am

I'd like to ask a favor for anyone willing... I'm not in a position to install WinISD where I am.
Is anyone able to plot the specs of the ID12 D2 and post a screenshot of the graph with a 0.6 cu ft enclosure (not including speaker displacement)?

Speaker specs:
http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/d53db0_1e ... 037046.pdf
The D2 is on the second page.

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby evolution7tt » November 15th, 2018, 8:03 am

Two plots here

One for In car.

The other for out of car response.
Attachments
In Car ID12 Plot.jpg
Open ID12 Plot.jpg

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby DJ Q » November 15th, 2018, 1:30 pm

Well that doesn't look too bad. I can EQ out that peak easily.
Thanks very much evo

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby kavaninho » November 15th, 2018, 2:43 pm

eq the peak? nah that geeing jusso :D :D

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby nervewrecker » November 15th, 2018, 9:29 pm

evolution7tt wrote:Two plots here

One for In car.

The other for out of car response.


You used something to simulate the room size it in to get that bump there?

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby evolution7tt » November 16th, 2018, 9:34 am

The in car response graph is based on the generalized cabin gain that BB6 suggests starting from 50Hz.

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby nervewrecker » November 16th, 2018, 9:26 pm

I will try and model it again and see what I get when taking those factors into consideration

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby Brian Steele » November 19th, 2018, 12:13 am

evolution7tt wrote:Two plots here

One for In car.

The other for out of car response.


The actual response is not going to look anything like that. It looks like not even the impact of Le is taken into consideration in that plot, and Le is going to be pretty high, unless the subwoofer has a really good motor that's designed to lower Le (most car audio subs do not fit into this category). There is also the impact of "semi-inductance" to consider. More information about "semi-inductance" here - https://www.diysubwoofers.org/misc/semi-inductance.html

As to the OP's question, I'd go with a sealed 10, possibly inverted if having the subwoofer mounted magnet out is acceptable. And stuff it with polyester fiberfill.

You *might* get a vented 6.5" to work in that space, but the vent is likely going to end up being too small to minimize the impact of vent compression at higher SPL levels.

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby evolution7tt » November 19th, 2018, 7:12 pm

Brian Steele wrote:
The actual response is not going to look anything like that. It looks like not even the impact of Le is taken into consideration in that plot, and Le is going to be pretty high, unless the subwoofer has a really good motor that's designed to lower Le (most car audio subs do not fit into this category).

As to the OP's question, I'd go with a sealed 10, possibly inverted if having the subwoofer mounted magnet out is acceptable. And stuff it with polyester fiberfill.

You *might* get a vented 6.5" to work in that space, but the vent is likely going to end up being too small to minimize the impact of vent compression at higher SPL levels.




Agreed.

If possible, can you post a graph that takes Le into account? I'm familiar with using BB6, but I've heard that Hornresp is more accurate.

At least we can then see how it compares to the BB6 model.

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby Brian Steele » November 19th, 2018, 8:27 pm

evolution7tt wrote:If possible, can you post a graph that takes Le into account? I'm familiar with using BB6, but I've heard that Hornresp is more accurate.

At least we can then see how it compares to the BB6 model.


Unfortunately Le isn't provided with the published specs for that driver. It's likely somewhere around 2~3 mH per coil, so you can assume that value for your model of 5 mH with the coils in series. Also, there's no actual impedance data that can be used to derive the semi-inductance parameters. Using the "Lossy Le" option in Hornresp will get you close though.

So, here's the Hornresp input for the model, and the predicted response curve in 2PI space using a 0.6 cu.ft. box. In car, expect a lift at low frequencies, of course.
2018-11-19 (3).png

2018-11-19 (4).png
2018-11-19 (4).png (10.09 KiB) Viewed 4880 times

2018-11-19 (5).png

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby kavaninho » November 19th, 2018, 9:39 pm

0.5xPi wouldn't be the space in this application?

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Re: Subwoofer for small space?

Postby DJ Q » November 20th, 2018, 8:00 am

Brian Steele hurt my brain there.
That graph doesn't look too exciting :-/

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