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adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 drivers

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alex jj
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adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 drivers

Postby alex jj » July 17th, 2015, 4:14 pm

i currently have an orion xtr 600.4 playing 4 prv d280 ti drivers, amp puts out 300 rms by 2 channels bridged, it is more than enough to power the drivers, my question is if i would be able to add 2 selenium st 200 8ohm tweeters by wiring one to each bridged channel and using resistors and condensers, would the amp still see two 4ohm loads, and would the amp be able to sufficiently power eveything? i remember reading on the selenium website that their drivers and tweeters need to be powered by an amp of double the power of the tweeter/ driver to properly play it, but i see many people playing these units with similar rated amp power to driver rating, should i get a xtr 800.4 or get a small amp just to play the 2 tweeters?[*]

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby K74T » July 17th, 2015, 4:30 pm

Good grief :|

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby DVSTT » July 17th, 2015, 5:39 pm

Natio?

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby ruffneck_12 » July 17th, 2015, 6:21 pm

i remember reading on the selenium website that their drivers and tweeters need to be powered by an amp of double the power of the tweeter/ driver to properly play it


what?

Also, this is for a daily car for casual listening/limes, or you gonna compete?

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby alex jj » July 17th, 2015, 7:14 pm

DVSTT wrote:Natio?


thats very hurtful

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby alex jj » July 17th, 2015, 7:18 pm

ruffneck_12 wrote:
i remember reading on the selenium website that their drivers and tweeters need to be powered by an amp of double the power of the tweeter/ driver to properly play it


what?

Also, this is for a daily car for casual listening/limes, or you gonna compete?

im looking to compete... i'm looking for the website where i read that the amp must be able to deliver double the rated power of the tweeter but i can't seem to find it right now... what i really wanted to know is if i would be able to add the tweeters

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby nervewrecker » July 17th, 2015, 11:00 pm

Leme ask a serious question:

What frequency range does your drivers cover?

What is the crossover point on your amp?

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby RAJIE » July 18th, 2015, 3:08 am

and what flare/horn are you using?

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby alex jj » July 18th, 2015, 7:03 pm

^^^ i play the drivers from 1500 hz up, i use the small prv flare, i had a problem before when i had 2 drivers and 2 tweeters where i kept blowing tweeters because i could not get the tweets to play from 5000 hz up because of insufficient tuning capability on the cross/ amp, a padna was telling me if i use the resistor and condenser the tweeter would read 0 ohms and play the frequencies i want from it

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby nervewrecker » July 18th, 2015, 10:31 pm

1500hz to where?
And what is the crossover point?
Let's focus on this part before we go on to what your padna them tell you and what you blow

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby 3stagevtec » July 19th, 2015, 3:08 am

alex jj wrote:i currently have an orion xtr 600.4 playing 4 prv d280 ti drivers, amp puts out 300 rms by 2 channels bridged, it is more than enough to power the drivers, my question is if i would be able to add 2 selenium st 200 8ohm tweeters by wiring one to each bridged channel and using resistors and condensers, would the amp still see two 4ohm loads, and would the amp be able to sufficiently power eveything? i remember reading on the selenium website that their drivers and tweeters need to be powered by an amp of double the power of the tweeter/ driver to properly play it, but i see many people playing these units with similar rated amp power to driver rating, should i get a xtr 800.4 or get a small amp just to play the 2 tweeters?[*]


^^^ i play the drivers from 1500 hz up, i use the small prv flare, i had a problem before when i had 2 drivers and 2 tweeters where i kept blowing tweeters because i could not get the tweets to play from 5000 hz up because of insufficient tuning capability on the cross/ amp, a padna was telling me if i use the resistor and condenser the tweeter would read 0 ohms and play the frequencies i want from it


1) 0 ohms is basically a short circuit and would trip the amplifier
2) what your partner was really trying to say is with the condenser connected, it would read infinite ohms resistance with a multi-meter (i.e. an open circuit)
3) you cannot measure a speakers impedance with a multi-meter. multi-meters measure DC Resistance. a speaker play's with an AC signal, and basically in AC circuits, you measure Impedance, not Resistance..
4) Impedance can be calculated. with a tweeter connected in parallel to the drivers, the amplifier will see all speakers in the circuit.. so therefore, the final impedance load on the amp will be 2.67ohms (3 8ohm speakers in parallel)
5) condensers are basic high pass filters, they read a very high impedance below the cut off frequency, and a very low impedance above the cut off frequency. the high impedance is basically what blocks the 'bass' from reaching the tweeters..

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby 3stagevtec » July 19th, 2015, 3:11 am

I have no idea on how they calculate to add a resistor to a tweeter in a passive crossover circuit.. Can't help you there..

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby ruffneck_12 » July 19th, 2015, 9:58 am

3stagevtec wrote:I have no idea on how they calculate to add a resistor to a tweeter in a passive crossover circuit.. Can't help you there..



http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-Lpad.htm

My suggestion is to run it without the resistor first, then adjust the desired attenuation on the EQ itself,,, then take that value and plug it in this calculator here.

Then hook up the resistor network and retune

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby nervewrecker » July 19th, 2015, 10:43 am

But if the prv d280 ti drivers play from 1200 Hz to 21 kHz why does he need a tweeter? :/

By adding a resistor before the condenser into the circuit they have now increased the impedance of the total load. So overall what they do is now deliver less power to that circuit, go looking for more power to get as loud and either turn up gains or add more power.

If they calculate the hpf a condenser will produce for a tweeter in series with a resistor they remain with the original value of the circuit with the tweeter "invisible" to the amplifier below where its crossed. I highly doubt sunil, raj and keeshor do this.
When you have a tweeter in the same circuit with speakers its recommended that the speakers have a low pass filter set on them so as to avoid the speakers trying to play higher frequencies beyond what they can play and are to be covered by the tweeters / drivers. It usually has an overlap that needs tuning out and can lead to distortion from the speaker.

If left to me i'd put the tweeters / drivers on a separate channel with a control device to adjust output and crossover frequency. This is where the external crossovers with the x10 or x20 multiplier and band pass feature comes in. But sunil, pooran and rishi believe in the mcd360 and cant tell them otherwise.

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby alex jj » July 19th, 2015, 1:37 pm

^^ i play them from 1500 hz upwards the same way i play my mids speakers from 150 hz upwards.. i decided i would leave the tweeters out of the equation and build single mids boxes housing a pair of 8's with the driver in the middle.... nerve is it important to have a crossover point that the speakers cannot play above or will the speakers just not be able to play the frequencies? and which crossover would be able to give me those tuning abilities?

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby nervewrecker » July 19th, 2015, 1:52 pm

alex jj wrote:^^ i play them from 1500 hz upwards the same way i play my mids speakers from 150 hz upwards.. i decided i would leave the tweeters out of the equation and build single mids boxes housing a pair of 8's with the driver in the middle.... nerve is it important to have a crossover point that the speakers cannot play above or will the speakers just not be able to play the frequencies? and which crossover would be able to give me those tuning abilities?

Why your speakers crossed at 150Hz? What playing below 150Hz?

You don't need tweeters if you have drivers playing what tweeters will play.

Most times it is a good idea to have a low pass filter on the upper frequency of the midrange / midbass. A speaker will play what you feed it, if you send midbass to a tweeter it will try to play it and blow (this is why you need appropriate crossover points or a filter like a condenser). If you connect a midrange speaker on a bass amp it will try to play bass and damage. If you connect a subwoofer on a midrange channel it will try to play it but won't do very well at it, you are free to try it provided the amp can handle the impedance presented.

This low pass and high pass for the midrange network is what they call a bandpass filter. Some crossovers like the powerbass, memphis and audio control offer it.
Where should you low pass your midrange? Anywhere within where it is capable of playing and anywhere your tweeters or horns pick up.

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby alex jj » July 19th, 2015, 2:05 pm

hmmm... well the speakers are capable of playing from 70 - 3000 but are able to take more power crossed higher... i guess im lacking the frequencies between the bass and speakers but im getting rid of my 36 hz bass box for a 45 hz one so there will be a bit less of a gap... i'll look in to a new cross

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby nervewrecker » July 19th, 2015, 2:21 pm

alex jj wrote:hmmm... well the speakers are capable of playing from 70 - 3000 but are able to take more power crossed higher... i guess im lacking the frequencies between the bass and speakers but im getting rid of my 36 hz bass box for a 45 hz one so there will be a bit less of a gap... i'll look in to a new cross


I have a better idea. Sell the subwoofer, box, bass amp and all the wires. Sell the mids and buy a pair of them faital 10" midbass, they will play from about 45Hz upwards.
You getting everything you want there. In fact, now you can invest in a more powerful mids amp so you can be heard from further away.
About 10 years from now another man will be reaming your gf in your bedroom while you watch tv and the whole neighborhood hearing her screaming his name. You wont be able to hear because of the hearing loss from trying to be a nuisance like right now.
PS PM me pics of your gf. :drinking:

Whoever advising you needs to be shot. When you invest in a box tuned to 45Hz you wont be able to play much of anything below 40Hz, say good bye to bass. You will be by the repairman soon enough because your sub will bottom out when you try to play bass.
For heavens sake, let the sub play what it should, cross the mids lower and let them play as they designed to be and invest in a good deck like the 80prs that will total up far less than deck, crossover, preamp.

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby alex jj » July 19th, 2015, 2:47 pm

lol u brutal...i have a 36 hz box right now which is very good for subsonic reproduction and very pleasurable for in car listening but next to the raj's with their high bass boxes my bass just doesn't cut it in an open area.. and i plan to compete with this system, not listen to it every day..

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby 3stagevtec » July 19th, 2015, 4:14 pm

LMAO!! Lawddddd

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby nervewrecker » July 19th, 2015, 8:34 pm

alex jj wrote:lol u brutal...i have a 36 hz box right now which is very good for subsonic reproduction and very pleasurable for in car listening but next to the raj's with their high bass boxes my bass just doesn't cut it in an open area.. and i plan to compete with this system, not listen to it every day..


Do give a run down as to what you have so far then.

Have you taken a listen to the competition and seen their equipment btw?

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby alex jj » July 19th, 2015, 8:49 pm

yup i have listened to the competition, and seen a few of their equipment, some of the guys even tune mid 50 hz... men now tend to tune their bass boxes more in the mid bass region than bass, i guess the lower freqencies are harder to hear, especially in an open area, i jus trying to go with the flow to be able to compete, as to what u said earlier bout the sub bottoming out, i would not be playing anything lower than 38hz... i guess the bass would be what cudd be considered a one note wonder

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby nervewrecker » July 19th, 2015, 8:54 pm

Ok ok, so what you go so far? lets hear the juicy details.

Sub, amps, mid, high, processing, charging system, cables, battery bank etc etc

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby kavaninho » July 19th, 2015, 10:43 pm

Tune your box too 60Hz and build it 2cuft over the recommended size. Make sure the port area surpasses that of the cone area.
Within the the next two to three weeks post up your trophy pics here........

Bruh don't join the crowd with their ridiculously tuned boxes. You will never enjoy your own music. To win said competition you want to attend will cause you to do everything contrary to proper car audio beliefs and theories. End result will cause damage to equipment.

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby LOUD AND CLEAR AUDIO » August 3rd, 2015, 8:41 am

hope u got through with everything -

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Re: adding tweets to 4 channel amp which already plays 4 dri

Postby INHUMAN » August 6th, 2015, 3:29 am

Man shelling out $$$ jus to win a $200 trophy and say e louda dan this one and that one regardless of own enjoyment and accurate music reproduction. To each his own yes. Win u win, Lemme knw when d quinam lime is tho!

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