RWD vs FWD vs 4WD vs AWD

[Death-Row]

Conrad,i agree with you to a point. the cefiro is a pant dropper if done right. i will be doing this when money goes my way but for now its box lancer.


A box lancer can also be a panty dropper. just cause its old doesnt mean it has to be rotten down and ting. i know its gonna take some money to get it in order but its a small nice starter car for me.

I am gonna get the GSR bumper in front and hide the intercooler by painting it black or something. Do over the interior. Bring it back nice.

Also, i dont need a car to get pum pum i just throw some lines, do a lil talkin and the box lancer getting blight.

a box lancer can look so bess if you get the lil GSR front bumper and paint the car a nice rich blue with white racing rims or some gun metal grey racing rims and do over the interior.

i may sound like a ricer but my ride must be lookin nice, im sorry

Also the A/C will be running i want the chick sweating.................................well A/C can only help for the heat of the sun, she will be sweating for other reasons tho

[Conrad]

^^^ agree with you hands down. If done right the GSR can be a beauty to behold...but only if done right, not the halfway thing a lot of guys like to do i.e. proper interior, body parts and A/C. If the clean ride doh work...at least the Essssssss Arrgggghhhhh go rip the pum-pum shield by the seams .

[Death-Row]

Conrad, lawwwwd but the Cefiro is a sure purchase for me sooner or later in life boy. Right now i lookin for a nice car to start off with so since the box lancer small and ting, that will do.


im not like some people to have the car and it rotten down and seats rip up and ting but it have a SR in it that pushin 20Psi of boost. I gotta have it lookin fresh also i aint dropping NO SR in my box lancer, will do something different. Since i heard by next month, there will be SR in donkey KYARTS and all. Every damn thing is SR

[OldSkoolRule]

Yeah fellas, i could see allyuh point in the Cifero being an all-rounder. I love big cars, just not fanatical about Japanese big cars besides the Cedric and Laurel bloodline (especially the original C32), kinda like a MS122 Royal Saloon too. However, what the cifero is for you guys, picture a black Statesman DeVille, 20" chrome fine spokes, leather and A/C inside, G5 right round, entertainment, and the finishing touch- Twin-turbo Fuel-Injected Chevy 350 V8, Edelbrock heads, MoTec mangement (1000HP @ 18psi fully streetable) with a Tremec T600 GEARBOX! (tired of seeing fellas usin tranny cuz dey fraid the V8). think about it: Killer mafia looks, enough power to do wheelies on the cross, it like a 'hotel' inside .......i could go on and on. Put ANY cifero next to that! Cifero? What Cifero? Yuh mean that dot in mirror?

[Conrad]

OldSkoolRule, haven't really looked into European and American cars that much but you have me interested. Thanks for the start...I going and start reading from tomorrow.

[OldSkoolRule]

Food for thought: What's the most successful engine type/configuration on the 1/4 mile (whether local or abroad). Think Tweety2, Sheik Lisha Camaro, Richie Rich, Big Daddy, Sheriff Lobo and all the Rail-cars........see where i'm going with this. i must admit though, 99% of the V8 crowd are old geezerz now. Their religion is carburetion, supercharging and Nitrous on a tranny. (although the tranny is better for a pure track car) Them ain't want to hear nuttin bout fuel-injection or turbo neither gearbox, and that is what the Japanese beating them with on the street. On a street car; injection, turbo, gearbox is the way due to fuel-economy, reliability, driveability, etc. Consider that BanksPower built a twin-turbo, injected Chevy 350 @ 15psi on pump gas and put down a 1200Hp/1000ft-lbs torque, as a finished product for everyday STREET USE! i ain't think i come across a 1000ft-lbs Japanese engine yet. Imagine with this set-up, i could put out at least 900HP/ft-lbs RELIABLY, EVERYDAY on pump gas, for at least the next 4 years ( i'm looking for about 6 years). Try that with an RB2*, or a *JZ-GTE and see how long the japnese engine last you, especially on pump-gas. Allyuh go be surprised to know how many virgin V8s are here in trinidad. with the same $9000-$14000 yuh go blow on a FOREIGN USED ( emphasis on 'USED') bloodclaat SR20DET, imagine the 8-banger beast yuh could build; throw it in a properly strapped Galant, and is madness!

[Death-Row]

[Death-Row]

well i really learnt allot in this thread. think i decided what im gonna get.


Bottom line, i think RWD is for me yes.

[Conrad]

OldSkoolRule, how difficult would you say it will be to fabricate an american V8 into the Cefiro chassis? I personally love the big monsters but what about weight (JDMs are well known for their cornering ability) and parts availability? Not trying to bring down your points in any way, I'm just trying to learn about these beasts I know so little about.
I love the Cefiro for it's looks as well, not only it's size and possible engine upgrades so any help on unpopular engine transplants would be appreciated.

[Conrad]

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2133309

Nice example of what I'm thinking. Besides dropping the engine lower in the engine bay and pushing it back as far as possible is their anything else that can be done to help with weight distribution? I'm thinking a high HP Cefiro with huge diff and heavy suspension work...naturally aspirated. Is that possible? Yes anything is possible with money but for how much would you estimate?

[OldSkoolRule]

Conrad, Consider that a V8 is only 4-cylinders long, you still want to push it further back in the cifero's engine bay? An LS-1 GM block weighs only 47 pounds more than the FD3S 13B rotary (3rd gen). I personally don't like the absurdly huge V8s or at least anything bigger than a 400cid, my favourite being a Chevy 350cid or 5.7L small block. Although i like v8s, i like high revving engines, and engines like 460cid and bigger simply don't rev, real torquey but redline at 5000rpm probably 6500rpm on a properly buit big block. a 350 however, is a short-stroke engine, hence it being called a small-block. That could do 7000rpm even 7500 on a block with pep-boys' $150 heads and some roller rockers. like i said, twin-turbo EFI is the way; 18psi injected 350 doin at least a comfortable 900HP on the street everday on pump-gas. a pair of the de same cheap orginal turbochargers from SR20 and RB2*DET serving yuh well. the only expensive thing is management, you could always blow-through a 4-barrel carb until you chalk up $1500 USD for a MoTec or Accel DFI. for starters, you could get a Chevy 350 and tranny for about $7000TT

[Death-Row]

V8 power.

Not a big fan of the V8 personally. i guess since i grew up around JDM stuff.

i would rather do the RB26DETT swap into the cefiro but a V8 ceffy would be mean.

[OldSkoolRule]

Allyuh fellas know bout Tweety1? (yes there is a Tweety1). Tweety2, the more popular of the two, was the yellow and now black 8-second V8 Laurel that used to race in Wallerz (holding a 7-second record in peurto-rico). Tweety1 on the other hand a the street-legal version of the V8 powered Laurel. I strongly believe it didn't have nitrous, and it was definitely naturally aspirated, carbureted 11-second car. RB26DETT in the cifero......would you consciously line that up with a V8 pwered Laurel, especially if it tubocharged and injected?

[Death-Row]

OldSkoolRule, the RB26 could do magic eh but alot of work will need to be put into it. Ive always loved the RB26, thats why i so stick on it nah.

[Death-Row]

OldSkoolRule,by chance, whats the price of a 3S-GTE going for these days?

[OldSkoolRule]

Anywhere from around $8k to as much as $15k for rear-wheel-drive versions. Death-Row, yuh still ain't answer nih question: RB26DETT in the cifero......would you consciously line that up with a V8 pwered Laurel, especially if it tubocharged and injected?

[Death-Row]

OldSkoolRule,well yes i would. im not afraid for a challenge. According to what mods is done to the RB, i may or may not be able to take the V8. If i lose, then i just have some work to be done. All for the love of the sport.

[OldSkoolRule]

watch Pinks much?

[Death-Row]

OldSkoolRule, yes i do. I think every engine have potential but just some may require wayyy less money to be spent to get a desired time. Like the SKF lancer, think he started off Sirus 2000 ? then worked up from there? what was done?

[OldSkoolRule]

SKF specs:Engine Specs:

Mitsubishi 4G63 BT
2000cc DOHC 16 Valve

Head Ported by Russ Engineering, Miami.
Head fitted with custom stainless steel valve
HKS 264degree Camshafts
AEM Vernier Gears

Block overbored 0.030" (85 mm bore)
J.E. Forged Pistons 0.030" over
Total Seal Rings (chrome face top rings)
Crower Connecting Rods & Bolts
Stock Crank Shaft
ARP Head Studs
ARP Crank Studs
Balance Shafts Removed
Stock Oil Pump
Max RPM 8,500
Turbonetics T6 6 Turbo ( Secret Specs)
Rear End, Ford 9" 4.8 ratio
XS Engineering Intercooler
Turbonetics Race Gate
Mc Cloud Clutch, 10" adjustable single disc
Island Empire Aluminum Drive-Shaft
Rear Slicks - 31 x 14 -15
Front tyres - 4.5 x 24.5 -15
Weldon Fuel Pump
SX Filters
SX Fuel Pressure Regulator
Harwood Fuel Cell

Engine Management:

SDS (Simple Digital System) by Racetech in Canada
Model- EM-2 Fuel Management

Oxygen Sensor (not used)
4 x 930cc. R.C. Engineering Injectors
Hall Sensor Magnet crank trigger.
Fuel and Ignition handled by ECU (adjusted by hand held programmer)
Crane HI-6DI2 Ignition with optional manual retard for nos.
Moroso 11mm Ignition Wires
NGK R6254E-9 Plugs
C16 Fuel

Crew:
Manager:- Brendan Garcia
Chief:- David Andrews
Randy Gibbon
Marcus Gibbon
Mukesh Mahadeo
Gregory Quintyne

Fastest E.T 8.943 @ 146.57 mph
60ft @ 1.384 sec's.
Thanks to His Sponsers:
United Bearings (SKF), United Coatings (Hempel) and Parts World.


This info is from the original trinituner SKF Lancer article

[Maserati]

OldSkoolRule, earlier this year i had made a thread about which is better for drag racing in terms of which is cheaper and easier to make good HP..an V engine or a normal inline..most agreed it is cheaper to get a V engine to produce some good power for the 1/4 mile but then the thread turned into a honda VS Nissan war n got locked n e how for 1/4 mile a V engine would definately be a good bet as a few mods and you will be producing some decent times

[Conrad]

I understand the V definitely has it's advantage on the straight but what I'm thinking about is the time attack. Something different and not attempted much but as you show OldSkoolRule,, it's highly possible. I'm not so familiar with fabrication and that's why I ask you approx. how much you think it would cost and will it be "stable"... in the sense, would it be street legal and not be falling apart on me like a lot of guys' cars when they mod it and chop it up.
Yes it's 4 Cylinders long but it's also 2 cylinders across as opposed to the RBs 1 cylinder across. Yes the length of the engine would be important in weight distribution but what I want to know is simply what can be done to not get a nose heavy ride skating off at the lights because it has tons of power and no traction behind. I know for starters I can adjust my rear springs for stiffness and what not, anymore I should be aware of?
Also, the Japs have their V's also. Since last year the idea of the V in a Ceffy came upon me but what I thought about was the extremely powerful/modable VG30DETT. How well do you think the mentioned engine can compare to the american small blocks? Yes parts are becoming a lil scarce but how does a 300Ceffy sound to you?

[Maserati]

but what I'm thinking about is the time attack

from what I've seen it is usually the imports that excel here with a few USDM cars.

[OldSkoolRule]

Conrad, a VG30DETTCifero sounds like a plan. 3000cc, now we talkin. A friend of mine has a Z31 300ZX in new york, its the 1st model 300ZX, not what we know as THE 300ZX. anyway, with a Jim Wolfe ECU, aftermarket single turbo (Garrett T04) and some bolt-on mods (injectors, manifolds, cams) that car does an 11-sec 1/4 mile. A 300zx REAL heavy, so a twin turbo VG30dett in a cifero sounds like an RB killer. A V8 will help weight distribution as it is also a very symmetrical engine. Somehow, you just can't beat a V8, especiallly for durability.you know what kind of ower/torque it takes to put a 4000lb Camaro or Trans-Am nose in the air? I'd like to see an RB make a Cifero stand up! It ain't have nuttin else takin de kinda licks and sheer neglect a V8 could take besides a diesel engine. Would you drive your VG30 cifero everyday? I know i will be drivin my 350 V8 powered DeVille everyday for a few years well, problem free, and on sunday, i drivin like a jacka$$ without regard for engine. yuh think a japanese engine taking that?

[Death-Row]

OldSkoolRule,4G63 SKF running? i heard someone tell me that he had a 4G63 but the amount of parts changed with different engines and ting he dont consider it a 4G63 anymore. Guess he was talkin sheit then

Really have to do some research on my box lancer project yes. Alot of engines comming to mind right now. Got a lil time to play with between now and next month when i should make the purchase. We will see what happens

[Conrad]

Maserati, I fully agree with you. The only thing is parts and how much fabrication is needed to mate that dreamy import chassis and suspension with the US powerful engine. Time attack as most of us know isn't simply about power but has a lot to do with handling. I simply am thinking (in no way can I afford such a setup...YET) of creating a combination for an overall great street car, not the best car at all sports (doing so will make the car biased towards speed or handling). If you look online you will see the Sylvia chassis being combined with a variety of engines. This I'm thinking about but the A31 weighs more than the S13/14 (leans more to the Skyline side of the scale) but it shares the Silvia chassis design as well. Just trying for a different setup, something new. Fedup hear about ah Esssss Arrrrrghh and d Arrrrghhh Beeeeeee twennnnney.
To people watching this thread; as mentioned by OldSkoolRule, the VG is a force to be reckoned with despite its age (don't steal yuh neighbour Frontier) but don't forget practicality. The biatch makes it hell to change relatively simple things such as the timing belt and so on (a lot of V fall victim to this).
Nice thread by the way...sorry Death-Row, if I've seemed to take it over a bit.

[Maserati]

Time attack as most of us know isn't simply about power but has a lot to do with handling

yup alot of these guys focus on weight reduction as well as suspension and spend big $ on these areas.

[Death-Row]

Conrad,hoss you aint take over me and you lookin for help. you getting help and i getting help so i guess the thread is going as planned.



also really wanna come out different but my budget not that big. i thinkin box lancer with some nissan guts for now to get the feel for it and then when i do pull some money (hopefully if my degree gets me a nice job ) then ill go for a monster project.

The V8 idea in the Ceffy aint soundin bad at all.

But again i think if the pockets deep enough, there are 8Sec R32 skylines out there and i think even lower times and it weighs around the same as the ceffy and is similar in many ways. i thinkin bout that R32AWD system with a RB26DETT in the cefiro in the future but right now i think ill go with box lancer. Box lancer small and not that heavy so if i get a nice engine to put there, the power to weight ratio go kill real men

[Death-Row]

not a big fan of cross breeding but nissan guts is the cheapest way to get alot of power for the box lancer so far..........................i just got some more motivation from the SKF lancer to try and keep it strictly mitsu. Maybe a 4G63T might endup under the hood.



.........................and the research continues..........................

[OldSkoolRule]

The VG30 is a force to be reckoned with. However, against a Chevy 350, the V8 would be my choice. I've been ranting about a DeVille for my all-rounder/panty-dropper/beach-runner. my idea of a primarily drag/competition car would be a Galant or the Mk3 Cortina that's sitting in my yard right now; with a Chevy 350 Fuel-injected, twin-turbo on a 5/6-speed gearbox. what is more possible for me right now is the Ford Boss 302 (5000cc/5.0 litre) and 3-speed dog-box that i have right now. can't afford management, so i'll have to blow thru either 1 or a pair of 4-barrel carbs for the while. i think that set-up the cortina would do well in drags AND drift (nuff torque, don't need handbrake). for the pure drags however, I also have a 2-door Ford Escort (in-case the cortina get licks); putting in the RB father.....The mighty L28 (280C/280ZX), turbocharged is a must, with either blowin-thru a 4-barrel Holley Predator carburettor then when i get $, MoTec or even Haltech management, trying to decide between the 280C wagon gearbox (good ratio for drags) or a RB20 5-speed or the RB25 6-speed or even a diesel box. using a Laurel diff on the original leaf springs. what you guyz think?